No games until 2021

futboldad1 said:
That does not mean remove/add between each bite......
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You are correct. The center picture shows a full plate of food being eaten and the picture when the mask is put back on the plate is empty and the napkin is being taken off the lap as if to say done.
 
notintheface said:
On paper this sounds really great-- but the logistics make this unworkable. Here's what you have to keep in mind:

1) Coaches have to schedule conflicts based on driving time, etc., well in advance, so they can trade spots within their club. ("Cover me on weekend A, and I'll cover you on weekend B"). Moving teams up or down within a season makes this impossible.

2) Parents have to schedule the same for families where more than one kid plays. Again, unless all teams play at the same complexes constantly, you can't ask parents to be able to juggle this, it's just impossible.

3) There are too many teams out there to have all the teams play at the same complexes constantly.

4) It is impossible to stop unscrupulous coaches from sandbagging their "placement" games, and they don't even have to have the kids in on the scam. All it takes is for them to sit their best goalscorer or instruct the kids to use these games to learn how to play out of the back, and then the natural mistakes lead to losses.

5) It is impossible to stop unscrupulous clubs from using club pass players to win specific games.

I think it's important to recognize that any kind of team placement situation (I hesitate to call it pro/rel because it shouldn't be tied to record) can and will be gamed by parents and coaches who want to win. You can't go around implementing any kind of game monitoring system because that requires a level of coordination that neither Cal South, nor the leagues, have any incentive to invest in.

The reality is this-- you have four buckets of teams out there:

Beginners, who are just above rec level, just starting out and learning the game. It is in everyone's vested interest to have these teams play each other and only each other. It's fine for one of these teams who has a super athletic kid play up front and score a ton of goals who winds up being their bracket's mvp, you're always going to have that one kid playing above their league. What you want to avoid is having one of these teams wind up playing against established teams and get blown out all the time-- that winds up getting teams to disband. Classify these teams as having 0-1 years of experience tops or eligible teams from the bracket above who won less than 25% of their games.

Competitive teams who have a hard time winning. These are the teams who will challenge any other team but for whatever reason have a hard time scoring goals, or still make more mistakes on defense than they can make up for on offense, you know the drill. Classify these teams as 2-4 years of experience or coaches self-select teams from the bracket above who won less than 25% of their games, or coaches self-select teams from the bracket below who won more than 50% of their games.

Competitive teams who can close out a game. These are teams from the below bracket who have more scoring threats. They will consistently beat other competitive teams but who have a hard time eg winning a tournament when they go up against upper tier teams. Classify these teams as 3-5 years of experience, or coaches self-select teams from the bracket above who won less than 25% of their games, or coaches self-select teams from the bracket below who won more than 50% of their games.

Upper tier teams. These are the teams ready to take the step to what used to be the DA, or ECNL, etc etc. They will consistently win tournaments. Classify these teams as 3+ years of experience with coaches only self-selecting these teams but who have to have won 50% of their games from last year.

I think this is a good balance-- coaches aren't forced to win every single game, there is clear progression here, and there isn't automatic pro/rel for kids. Every game needs to be competitive but we recognize that there will be a percentage of games that simply won't be competitive. This kind of bracketing doesn't require any additional infrastructure to implement, lets the unscrupulous coaches stay within their lower brackets if they just want to win their Europa League, and the number of blowout matches is kept to a minimum.
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Do you think the current SCDSL and Coast set up is a good one?
My proposal aint perfect - but I think it's better than what we have now. Maybe remove the "immediate bump up or down" if you have a blowout.
But coaches and parents driving all over for other teams/kids is something we already have.
 
futboldad1 said:
I hope the gaslighting comment is not aimed at me........ but yikes, if "bites" truly means each bite this is really really dumb........
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I think it's fair to say he made a mistake and made a stupid statement he didn't really mean. Nevertheless, it was a mistake and his statement is stupid, even if he didn't intend it that way.
 
Paul Spacey said:
And there is no argument against that; nobody wants to gamble. But at some point with everything (not just Covid) you have to weigh up risk. Some previous posters have pointed this out more eloquently than I can.

So far there is nothing (unless I am mistaken) that suggests kids are at risk from returning to games. If we were talking about days or weeks of evidence, again I’d agree with you that erring on the side of caution might be the best thing to do but many states have been playing for months with no issues.
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The risk is the unknown. What’s the benefit of rushing back to soccer? Again, why can’t kids ride bike, skateboards, surf etc for physical activity?

I understand the rush back to soccer from the coaches perspective because we are talking about their livelihood and I am very sympathetic to that.
However, I have yet to hear 1 valid reason for rushing back to soccer for kids because it’s not in their best interest. Learning how to skate, rides bikes, and surf etc. is in the best interest of kids until we have more information.
 
TOSDCI said:
Completely agree with you. If you open Disneyland, parents will question why they can take their kids to Disney but not attend school. If you open sports, they will ask why can't my kids attend school. These are questions that the powers that be don't want to answer. There is absolutely no scientific reason to keep soccer shut down until 2021. We can see that from the results of high school and club sports being opened for several months in other states. There is a political reason. The opening of sports will coincide with the opening of the large public school districts in So Cal.
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I think you have given our State too much credit for thinking....as I have said before, I believe we haven't even been a thought process. They slapped a 1 page memo together 2.5 months ago lumping all youth sports together and haven't thought about us since then. If we are even on the radar screen we are a low priority which is why they haven't addressed youth sports at all.
 
MacDre said:
The risk is the unknown. What’s the benefit of rushing back to soccer? Again, why can’t kids ride bike, skateboards, surf etc for physical activity?

I understand the rush back to soccer from the coaches perspective because we are talking about their livelihood and I am very sympathetic to that.
However, I have yet to hear 1 valid reason for rushing back to soccer for kids because it’s not in their best interest. Learning how to skate, rides bikes, and surf etc. is in the best interest of kids until we have more information.
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ALL of those other things you mention are great; kids should diversify and enjoy doing different stuff. But if the science suggests that returning to soccer games isn’t an issue, it shouldn’t be drawn out necessarily. We can argue all day over the reasons behind that; it’s been done enough already.

My posts and position is always transparent so let me be clear on this issue; I am not struggling in any way financially and whether or not kids play games isn’t going to make a difference to me from a financial perspective. I have other means of making money, as do many coaches.

When I post about kids returning to games or consolidating leagues or less travel or more development over winning or less marketing bullshit and all of that stuff, it’s because I care about two things; one, the kids and two, improving the game here in the US. I sometimes wonder whether some people intentionally look to stifle one or both of those things; that is something I find very difficult to understand and accept.
 
Desert Hound said:
The risk is known per the CDC.

Under 19 individuals have a survival rate of 99.997.

Put another way if 1 million people under the age of 19 get covid, 30 die.

So the risk is known. There is no real risk.
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The immediate risk is pretty well pegged by now. Nobody has enough experience yet to know the long-term risk.
 
timbuck said:
Do you think the current SCDSL and Coast set up is a good one?
My proposal aint perfect - but I think it's better than what we have now. Maybe remove the "immediate bump up or down" if you have a blowout.
But coaches and parents driving all over for other teams/kids is something we already have.
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I think the SCDSL setup is far, far better than Coast's. Coaches aren't punished for innovating and developing their team's tactics during league play. Here's a good thought experiment for you-- how many U10 Coast teams do you know who have precisely one kid who throws the ball in, because they're the kid who can keep that back foot from lifting off the ground? Now how many U10 SCDSL teams do you know where a coach is unafraid to spread out the throw-in duties because they aren't afraid of shipping a goal off a possession change? This sounds like a really tiny inconsequential detail but it is a symptom of the larger problem of pro/rel for kids. Every single kid on a team, save for the GK, should be on throw-in duty when they are younger, just so they get experience in a competitive environment. Let the kid lose possession 5, 10, 100 times before they understand the concept of checking in and dragging your toe. Coast does not allow for that luxury.

I 100% agree with you that coaches should not have to brave multiple hours on the road in Southern California Traffic (tm) on the weekends. 100%. But at the very least the system that is currently in place, where you know your games ahead of time, allows coaches to predict their commutes and therefore work within their club to trade slots when needed. Any kind of system where you don't know your next week's opponent until after the results of your last couple of matches is untenable for scheduling.
 
Desert Hound said:
The risk is known per the CDC.

Under 19 individuals have a survival rate of 99.997.

Put another way if 1 million people under the age of 19 get covid, 30 die.

So the risk is known. There is no real risk.
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What’s the survival rate of their parents? Coaches? Teachers? Those living in rest homes, or in hospitals, grocery stores, office buildings etc working next to all these kids’ parents? If 1 million people under 30 get it, how many people who they transmit it to will die?

The risk is known apparently, so please tell us.
 
futboldad1 said:
His post was not pathetic but your rude response kinda is......
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What’s rude about the truth? Balance is very important concept in life and if a kid “only” plays soccer, I maintain that is a sad pathetic situation to be in. What do you have against balance and minimizing injury?
 
timbuck said:
I’d like to see scdsl and coast use this time to come together and reform local club soccer in So Cal. Figure out a way to keep teams from long drives and make sure all games are competitively bracketed.
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As someone who grew up in the system and is now running an organization of his own, I couldn’t agree more. Pro/Rel is what makes the game “THE GAME”. If you as a parent thinks that pro/rel and win at all costs is a bad philosophy to instill on children playing U9 you are in your absolute right to think so. But if that’s your take then leagues like CSL or SCDSL are NOT for you, perhaps the Cal South Signature League or the Intercity League (I think they’re the same) is where you want to be. Or even the countless Cal South Rec Leagues like Anahuak YSA for example and AYSO will forever be an option.

I was in high school when SCDSL was formed and I used to trip out at why one of the clubs near to me (Downtown LA SC) were traveling to San Diego to play ONE flight 2 league game. Or why some clubs were top tiered in Coast now have some Flight 3 teams. In my opinion the SCDSL philosophy sucks where coaches can select (through petition supposedly) which flight they’re going to play in. Add to that the majority of the clubs who broke away from Coast to found SCDSL don’t even have their top teams in the so called Discovery, Flight 1 Europa or Flight 1 Champions (just call it two different flights PLEASE) and will play ECNL or MLS Next or GA if we’re talking about the girls side too.

That whole status thing with parents actually exists and sometimes it can even trickle down to their kids. I had a friend who was boasting how he played in SCDSL flight 1 and when we looked on our phones for the standings that his team was 0-6 he stayed quiet. I know parents that have that sticker on their car flexing that their kid plays for “this ECNL club, this GA academy” blah blah blah. It’s why clubs like LA Surf take their teams away from Coast and put them into the SCDSL. It’s hard to imagine whoever runs LA Surf-Hollywood or LA Surf-Sherman Oaks to be okay with having to travel to Orange County (where the majority of the SCDSL teams are located) just because the head honchos at La Cañada wanted a move. And to add to the greater misfortune, this is how the game is ran at the professional levels too where clubs select what tier they enter as long as they have the money for it, with no pro/rel in order to cement the status of a team. Picture Dignity Health Sports Park with a major drop in attendance just because the Galaxy dropped down a tier. So sometimes I also believe it’s the entitled peoples faults and clubs see this and continue to do things the way they do because suckers will always fall for whatever bs that club is selling.

Pro/rel let’s you see stories like local league teams (Mexican leagues as they’re referred to here) starting their own clubs at Bronze and working their way up, with some even winning the State Cup which is prestigious to a club who started out in the local leagues. It allows you to stay regional if you’re in the lower tiers and allow the opportunity to travel now that you’re in a higher tier because it was earned through merit. It gives you the prestige of knocking out a higher level team in the league cup.

In conclusion, Coast SL had it right from the beginning. It’s obvious that a breakaway also had to do with politics and not just because folks are thinking about the children. If both leagues were to come together, it’d be a dream come true for many around Southern CA but the reality is there are many parents who don’t want to say their kid is on a Flight 3 or Bronze team. At the end of the day pro/rel is what soccer is about on a global scale. Even the penguins in Antarctica probably play pro/rel.
 
Paul Spacey said:
ALL of those other things you mention are great; kids should diversify and enjoy doing different stuff. But if the science suggests that returning to soccer games isn’t an issue, it shouldn’t be drawn out necessarily. We can argue all day over the reasons behind that; it’s been done enough already.

My posts and position is always transparent so let me be clear on this issue; I am not struggling in any way financially and whether or not kids play games isn’t going to make a difference to me from a financial perspective. I have other means of making money, as do many coaches.

When I post about kids returning to games or consolidating leagues or less travel or more development over winning or less marketing bullshit and all of that stuff, it’s because I care about two things; one, the kids and two, improving the game here in the US. I sometimes wonder whether some people intentionally look to stifle one or both of those things; that is something I find very difficult to understand and accept.
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Out of curiosity, what other means your are talking about? You don't have to answer of course.
 
MacDre said:
What’s rude about the truth? Balance is very important concept in life and if a kid “only” plays soccer, I maintain that is a sad pathetic situation to be in. What do you have against balance and minimizing injury?
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I will only say this. I tried to get DG to do dance and ballet. Hell no!!! Then we tried bike riding but she fell and hated it. Hiking was boring. I got her into soccer and it connected at 5. At 7, I tried to get her to tryout softball at it was one big, "no." Hoops? "No." All she ever wants to do is play soccer, go to school, hangout and play with her friends. She does like surfing but that is for Jah and more for love of mother earth. No school open so this all sucks and I already prepped her for online next two years and she is ok with that as long as they can play sports. I told her probably not for two years. In two years when college opens up in California maybe she can get those cleats back on. Thanks a lot for nothing. Take a kids two years away. Wow!!! Sellfish little brat she is, only wants to play soccer in college like other men so she can get a discount or get in for free because she worked her ass off, unlike the ladies husband who helped "well to do" folks get in with a fake sport.
 
Sort of serious/sort of kidding question - What is going to happen with tryouts?
I know there are teams out there right now that have light rosters that are advertising to try and add players before the "Season" starts.
And most clubs have their tryouts in December/January.
What is going to happen now?
I'm sure we will see several kids/families say " we are out for now. Call us back when there's actually a season and we'll let you know if we are interested" (there was already quite a few of these this summer/fall)
 
timbuck said:
Sort of serious/sort of kidding question - What is going to happen with tryouts?
I know there are teams out there right now that have light rosters that are advertising to try and add players before the "Season" starts.
And most clubs have their tryouts in December/January.
What is going to happen now?
I'm sure we will see several kids/families say " we are out for now. Call us back when there's actually a season and we'll let you know if we are interested" (there was already quite a few of these this summer/fall)
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I'm sure you'll have invitational tryouts. The problem will be for the buyer, not the seller, as it's really hard to get the sense of the team with kids shuffling in and out and without being able to play scrimmages or hold team gatherings. The elite teams will have an easier time than the lower teams, since people are always looking to hop up....for those teams people who decide to go on hold until games resume will more likely just leave the sport (they won't be sufficiently conditioned to drop back in, and kids being kids they'll have moved on to other things).

New teams, particularly for the youngers, will be difficult to form even for the 2021 seasons since mass tryouts will be forbidden under the current standards until wide spread vaccination, and that's not happening until August/September 2021 at the earliest.
 
MacDre said:
The risk is the unknown. What’s the benefit of rushing back to soccer? Again, why can’t kids ride bike, skateboards, surf etc for physical activity?

I understand the rush back to soccer from the coaches perspective because we are talking about their livelihood and I am very sympathetic to that.
However, I have yet to hear 1 valid reason for rushing back to soccer for kids because it’s not in their best interest. Learning how to skate, rides bikes, and surf etc. is in the best interest of kids until we have more information.
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Uhm have you been hiding in a cave? Dre you know why? Parents know the mental health of their own child. Mental well being is a bigger health risk than the China virus, especially long term damage.Also, how about all those collegiate scholarships that may go away in the future as universities cut back budgets. Most parents are in it to win it.
 
chiefs said:
Uhm have you been hiding in a cave? Dre you know why? Parents know the mental health of their own child. Mental well being is a bigger health risk than the China virus, especially long term damage.Also, how about all those collegiate scholarships that may go away in the future as universities cut back budgets. Most parents are in it to win it.
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Weren’t you the guy who just called teachers p**sies? Well, ok, if your kids can’t handle a few more months of online school and socially distanced soccer practice, who are the real p**sies?
 
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