President Joe Biden

Scott m Shurson said:
Amazing how the Capitol storm was planned and and executed, well in advance of Trump uttering a single word, but it’s all his fault because he used the force to bring everyone together weeks in advance.
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He used twitter. "It will be wild".
 
Scott m Shurson said:
Innocent of what? Are you uneducated about how she aided and abetted her former boyfriend in doing his drug deals? Bummer. Who knew being a drug dealer was illegal or dangerous? Might be a good idea to not hide drugs, drug money or a drug dealer in your apartment.

Here’s a tip... don’t shoot at police. They may just shoot back.
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You are not a supporter of second amendment rights and the principle of defending the home against intruders?
 
watfly said:
The far right and the far left are equally responsible for threats to our democracy. While what each side did is optically different, they are not substantively different. Both were an extreme assault on democracy and the rule of law. Anyone who attempts to diminish, rationalize, or justify on the basis of subjective differences is part of the problem. This isn't about whataboutism, its about what objectively happened over the last year. Neither party can be defined by their extremes. I think most of us are moderates and lean a little left or a little right. Trump was a false prophet and needs to be treated as such. Can we not at least find common ground with the fact the Trump's rhetoric was reprehensible and that he doesn't deserve to hold the office of President? While I personally don't believe he should be hung in the public square (why make him a martyr), I do understand the sentiment to do so. As far as I'm concerned he was impeached by US Citizens on November 3, 2020.
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I'm 99% with everything you wrote. I think what would help me get across the finish line is to better understand who we collectively think are the extremists, regardless of "side". The challenge I have is if you look at Trump's base there's a lot to unpack there. Reagan embraced the religious right, which was fine in my view. Trump, though, has embraced white nationalists, Qanon conspiracy theroists, militias, etc. In my mind it doesn't matter if these people care about Trump, the point is they voted for Trump. Now, you have republicans battling for those votes. I have a really hard time envisioning Bush Jr. or republicans before him being ok with this. Obviously on the left you have the antifa movement, but what are some other extremist groups I'm missing here?
 
espola said:
You are not a supporter of second amendment rights and the principle of defending the home against intruders?
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If you help a drug dealer and use your home to do it, you waive your right to defend your home against police officers doing their jobs. If you shoot at them, you waive your right to continue breathing.

Maybe you should google the transcripts of her phone calls with the piece of shit when he was in jail. She wasn’t innocent of anything.

You have any other names of innocent criminals?
 
NorCalDad said:
I'm 99% with everything you wrote. I think what would help me get across the finish line is to better understand who we collectively think are the extremists, regardless of "side". The challenge I have is if you look at Trump's base there's a lot to unpack there. Reagan embraced the religious right, which was fine in my view. Trump, though, has embraced white nationalists, Qanon conspiracy theroists, militias, etc. In my mind it doesn't matter if these people care about Trump, the point is they voted for Trump. Now, you have republicans battling for those votes. I have a really hard time envisioning Bush Jr. or republicans before him being ok with this. Obviously on the left you have the antifa movement, but what are some other extremist groups I'm missing here?
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Oh come on...you have the BLM groups too (not all of them, but remember espola took pains to point out the one leftist infiltrator I pointed out in the Capitol was BLM, not Antifa....and yes I'd apply the same standard to the Proud Boys). There's also the Black Panthers, the Black Guerilla Family and elements of the Nation of Islam (which in particular have been out and outright antisemetic). We Latinos also have several groups, including some dedicated to the forced retaking of Atzlan, which they maintain was forcibly stolen from Mexico.
 
Grace T. said:
Oh come on...you have the BLM groups too (not all of them, but remember espola took pains to point out the one leftist infiltrator I pointed out in the Capitol was BLM, not Antifa....and yes I'd apply the same standard to the Proud Boys). There's also the Black Panthers, the Black Guerilla Family and elements of the Nation of Islam (which in particular have been out and outright antisemetic). We Latinos also have several groups, including some dedicated to the forced retaking of Atzlan, which they maintain was forcibly stolen from Mexico.
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My question was sincere. Not sure where the "Oh come on.." is coming from.

But from your response, you're suggesting BLM is one of those extremist groups we should put on the "list"?
 
NorCalDad said:
I'm 99% with everything you wrote. I think what would help me get across the finish line is to better understand who we collectively think are the extremists, regardless of "side". The challenge I have is if you look at Trump's base there's a lot to unpack there. Reagan embraced the religious right, which was fine in my view. Trump, though, has embraced white nationalists, Qanon conspiracy theroists, militias, etc. In my mind it doesn't matter if these people care about Trump, the point is they voted for Trump. Now, you have republicans battling for those votes. I have a really hard time envisioning Bush Jr. or republicans before him being ok with this. Obviously on the left you have the antifa movement, but what are some other extremist groups I'm missing here?
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I don't think the who's who or number of groups is relevant, that's my point (and I can provide ample evidence of other left wing extremists that contributed to the violence). I could argue that far more acts of violence were committed by the left than the right, but that's irrelevant. I could also argue that on the whole Trump rally's were far more peaceful than BLM and Antifa protests...until they weren't. I could argue that the right responded immediately with law and order, while the left refused to when their constituents rioted. Those arguments are unproductive to resolving the problem of mob violence and political unrest. We have to stop fighting on that hill of whose violence is less heinous, or "more justified". We have to stop pretending there is some gray area of political violence, because there is not.

Maybe some Republicans are fighting for the votes of white nationalists, Qanon or right wing militias, I don't see that based on the almost universal condemnation from the Republicans of the violence (I'm excluding those that "condemned" with a wink and a nod).
 
NorCalDad said:
My question was sincere. Not sure where the "Oh come on.." is coming from.

But from your response, you're suggesting BLM is one of those extremist groups we should put on the "list"?
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I think they are a grey group...and yes I think the Proud Boys are too. Life's not all black and white.

p.s. to the extent they are antisemetic, those particular leftist groups thaqt are antisemitic should be on the list
 
watfly said:
I don't think the who's who or number of groups is relevant, that's my point (and I can provide ample evidence of other left wing extremists that contributed to the violence). I could argue that far more acts of violence were committed by the left than the right, but that's irrelevant. I could also argue that on the whole Trump rally's were far more peaceful than BLM and Antifa protests...until they weren't. I could argue that the right responded immediately with law and order, while the left refused to when their constituents rioted. Those arguments are unproductive to resolving the problem of mob violence and political unrest. We have to stop fighting on that hill of whose violence is less heinous, or "more justified". We have to stop pretending there is some gray area of political violence, because there is not.

Maybe some Republicans are fighting for the votes of white nationalists, Qanon or right wing militias, I don't see that based on the almost universal condemnation from the Republicans of the violence (I'm excluding those that "condemned" with a wink and a nod).
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Ok, so you're more concerned about mob violence as oppose to extremists viewpoints? So for example, someone rioting because they've hit a breaking point on police brutality (whether they're right or wrong) is a bigger concern than say someone that believes in white supremacy/nationalism but is generally peaceful?

I'm not trying to start an argument here. I'm genuinely trying to understand.
 
NorCalDad said:
I guess my point can be summed up be this part of the article I posted:

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Looking at the subset of protests in which demonstrators did not engage in any violence, vandalism, or looting, law enforcement officers were about 3.5 times more likely to use force against leftwing protests than rightwing protests, with about 1.8% of peaceful leftwing protests and only half a percent of peaceful rightwing protests met with teargas, rubber bullets or other force from law enforcement.

“Police are not just engaging more because [leftwing protesters] are more violent. They’re engaging more even with peaceful protesters,” Dr Roudabeh Kishi, ACLED’s director of research and innovation, told the Guardian. “That’s the clear trend.”
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Is the issue that police were instigating things or the other way around? It's not clear to me.
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Some police/ex-military personnel are either already white supremacists or have been approached by/recruited by the oath keepers or similar militia groups and radicalized. They come in with a chip on their shoulder.
 
NorCalDad said:
Ok, so you're more concerned about mob violence as oppose to extremists viewpoints? So for example, someone rioting because they've hit a breaking point on police brutality (whether they're right or wrong) is a bigger concern than say someone that believes in white supremacy/nationalism but is generally peaceful?

I'm not trying to start an argument here. I'm genuinely trying to understand.
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I consider mob violence and extremists viewpoints essentially the same. Extremist viewpoints often leads to violence. In some cases viewpoints of groups may not appear to be extreme on their face, but leads to some members taking it to the extreme by inciting violence. I will say that I grew up with a few concepts repeated by my parents "Sticks and stones will break your bones but names will never hurt me", "The golden rule" and "Mind your own beeswax". I also grew up with "If you have nothing good to say, don't say it", unfortunately, I don't always comply with that one depending on the circumstances. While those phrases may seem trite they've worked well for me through my lifetime, although I often times think were an upside down and backwards world these days. I don't believe I can change the world, but I do believe I can help my my community with substantive actions and that's where I put my efforts.

I don't want to debate BLM, what type of group it is, is irrelevant to my point. I will only say that my opinion of BLM is consistent with the Premier League's opinion of BLM.
 
Scott m Shurson said:
If you help a drug dealer and use your home to do it, you waive your right to defend your home against police officers doing their jobs. If you shoot at them, you waive your right to continue breathing.

Maybe you should google the transcripts of her phone calls with the piece of shit when he was in jail. She wasn’t innocent of anything.

You have any other names of innocent criminals?
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The police got a no-knock warrant to find Glover, drugs, and money, citing a tip from an unnamed postal inspector. At the time of serving the warrant and killing Taylor and wounding her boyfriend, Glover had already been arrested. No drugs or money or packages addressed to Glover were found in the apartment. The local postal inspector's office denied any knowledge of a tip to police about packages sent to Glover.

www.wdrb.com

Louisville postal inspector: No ‘packages of interest’ at slain EMT Breonna Taylor’s home

Louisville Metro Police shot and killed Taylor, an emergency room tech and former EMT, on March 13. The shooting has drawn national scrutiny and calls for an independent probe.
www.wdrb.com www.wdrb.com
 
espola said:
The police got a no-knock warrant to find Glover, drugs, and money, citing a tip from an unnamed postal inspector. At the time of serving the warrant and killing Taylor and wounding her boyfriend, Glover had already been arrested. No drugs or money or packages addressed to Glover were found in the apartment. The local postal inspector's office denied any knowledge of a tip to police about packages sent to Glover.

www.wdrb.com

Louisville postal inspector: No ‘packages of interest’ at slain EMT Breonna Taylor’s home

Louisville Metro Police shot and killed Taylor, an emergency room tech and former EMT, on March 13. The shooting has drawn national scrutiny and calls for an independent probe.
www.wdrb.com www.wdrb.com
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They served half a dozen warrants that day. They wanted to talk to her about her involvement, which was significant. They didn’t go there to shoot her. Witnesses heard police announce themselves, her boyfriend shot first and she paid the price. The local postal guy isn’t relevant in any way. Police have her drug dealer boyfriend admitting to having shit sent to her home.

Police have transcripts of phone calls between them talking about her hiding him and holding his drug money. The media won’t volunteer that but, if it’s facts you seek, look it up. All in black and white. You same source, WDRB, has those same details.

If it’s innocent black lives taken that concerns you, it’s easy to find names. They die, at the the hands of black shooters, anywhere between 25 to 30 per weekend in Chicago alone. Your source, WDRB, has that too.
 
watfly said:
I consider mob violence and extremists viewpoints essentially the same. Extremist viewpoints often leads to violence. In some cases viewpoints of groups may not appear to be extreme on their face, but leads to some members taking it to the extreme by inciting violence. I will say that I grew up with a few concepts repeated by my parents "Sticks and stones will break your bones but names will never hurt me", "The golden rule" and "Mind your own beeswax". I also grew up with "If you have nothing good to say, don't say it", unfortunately, I don't always comply with that one depending on the circumstances. While those phrases may seem trite they've worked well for me through my lifetime, although I often times think were an upside down and backwards world these days. I don't believe I can change the world, but I do believe I can help my my community with substantive actions and that's where I put my efforts.

I don't want to debate BLM, what type of group it is, is irrelevant to my point. I will only say that my opinion of BLM is consistent with the Premier League's opinion of BLM.
Click to expand...

It appears that the Premier League's opinion of BLM is that it is a political organization. They are continuing with the "no room for racism" campaign. "The league says the initiative 'will build on the momentum created last season' in which all EPL players bore a BLM logo on their jerseys the last few weeks of the season in response to the murder of George Floyd.

“We’re drawing a clear distinction between a moral cause and a political movement.”

www.theguardian.com

Premier League drops Black Lives Matter badge from shirts for own campaign

Premier League clubs’ shirts will not carry the Black Lives Matter slogan in the coming season
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Scott m Shurson said:
They served half a dozen warrants that day. They wanted to talk to her about her involvement, which was significant. They didn’t go there to shoot her. Witnesses heard police announce themselves, her boyfriend shot first and she paid the price. The local postal guy isn’t relevant in any way. Police have her drug dealer boyfriend admitting to having shit sent to her home.

Police have transcripts of phone calls between them talking about her hiding him and holding his drug money. The media won’t volunteer that but, if it’s facts you seek, look it up. All in black and white. You same source, WDRB, has those same details.

If it’s innocent black lives taken that concerns you, it’s easy to find names. They die, at the the hands of black shooters, anywhere between 25 to 30 per weekend in Chicago alone. Your source, WDRB, has that too.
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Links?
 
Scott m Shurson said:
They served half a dozen warrants that day. They wanted to talk to her about her involvement, which was significant. They didn’t go there to shoot her. Witnesses heard police announce themselves, her boyfriend shot first and she paid the price. The local postal guy isn’t relevant in any way. Police have her drug dealer boyfriend admitting to having shit sent to her home.

Police have transcripts of phone calls between them talking about her hiding him and holding his drug money. The media won’t volunteer that but, if it’s facts you seek, look it up. All in black and white. You same source, WDRB, has those same details.

If it’s innocent black lives taken that concerns you, it’s easy to find names. They die, at the the hands of black shooters, anywhere between 25 to 30 per weekend in Chicago alone. Your source, WDRB, has that too.
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They knew where she lived; they knew where she worked. The only way they could have a conversation was to break, down her door in the middle of the night?
 
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