Is DA done?

thedudeabides said:
There are several club teams in California that can beat the earthquakes and galaxy academy squads. The bottom 4-5 non-mls DA's were bad in SoCal. They aren't even top 50 in socal and the disparities between mls and non mls da's in other parts of the country are even more pronounced. Most of these non mls da's were simply being used so the mls da's didn't have to fly all over the place. The best club teams against the mls academies is the best approach if they make it promotion/relegation.
Click to expand...

Are Albion, LAUFC, Nomads, TFA and Barca traditionally strong boys teams?
 
Son said:
For years, MLS DAs wanted to leave the DA to form their own league for the 26 MLS academies teams. The complaint from the MLS DAs was that the non-MLS teams did not offer meaningful enough competition.

What US Youth Soccer is doing is it is just creating a new league with clubs outside the DA, who are not necessarily the most competitive teams. Many of the better former non-MLS DAs already committed to the ECNL. The new MLS/ USYS elite league appears to be just looking for numbers; it is not going to offer more meaningful competition to the MLS academies.

Once again, two separate "elite" leagues just ensures us once again that the best teams are not playing against one another.
Click to expand...
If MLS is trying to be like the r
Kante said:
Have seen exactly what you talk about w/ the CSL prem and DA teams, and it makes sense. Looking at YSR, would argue that some of the DA teams scores are too low but only a handful. (does anyone disagree/have other inputs?)

So what's best way how to get more visibility about the boys CSL premier teams/players to college scouts?

Seems like the college scouts are looking for one/a couple big tournament(s) to go to and/or relying on existing relationships with connected docs/coaches.

ECNL Boys seems to be providing that and likely the MLS League will.

How does CSL premier compete with that? The core piece - the player quality/quality of play - is there and that's critical but not enough.
Click to expand...
Everyone worries to much about which league your son plays. During league play its when colleges are in season. Coaches are really busy. Get on a good team with a good coach , play major touraments . Remember you are competing now with foreign players that are on every college teams also.
 
Kante said:
the u16 as standalone age group is goodness.
Click to expand...

MLS/USYS calendar year group with the last one combined u18/19 is what I heard. Would be surprised if ECNL is any different

With calendar year and High school ages there is really not a economical or a good way to break those groups up yet unless you just get rid of u19 but that would leave some players out. Participation really declines once you a hit u18 anyway so competition would suffer is the other thought by going that way.
 
Kante said:
Have seen exactly what you talk about w/ the CSL prem and DA teams, and it makes sense. Looking at YSR, would argue that some of the DA teams scores are too low but only a handful. (does anyone disagree/have other inputs?)

So what's best way how to get more visibility about the boys CSL premier teams/players to college scouts?

Seems like the college scouts are looking for one/a couple big tournament(s) to go to and/or relying on existing relationships with connected docs/coaches.

ECNL Boys seems to be providing that and likely the MLS League will.

How does CSL premier compete with that? The core piece - the player quality/quality of play - is there and that's critical but not enough.
Click to expand...

CSL Premier is helped by two things: (1) Geography - CSL has clubs in and around soccer-crazy downtown LA and the SFV that serve kids who can't drive to practices all over the area for DA, and (2) DA's funnel structure and prohibition on HS - many CSL premier teams have kids who returned from DA for various reasons.

Some problems, though, from a college scouting perspective is that they no longer have the one stop shopping of having all games in a central spot like UC Irvine (Silverlakes helps, but it's not complete), a decent percentage of kids can't afford or qualify for college (scouts don't want to waste their time on kids who won't or can't go to their schools), and some of the clubs are pretty small and disorganized so that their players are not promoted and educated about college the way that they are in the largest clubs.
 
Son said:
Are Albion, LAUFC, Nomads, TFA and Barca traditionally strong boys teams?
Click to expand...

TFA yes, Barca yes but they are new. Mixed bag on the others but who knows now? going to be a shakeup & lots of movement either way.

This a lower cost leagues for those clubs and more will seek those avenues.
 
Kante said:
Have seen exactly what you talk about w/ the CSL prem and DA teams, and it makes sense. Looking at YSR, would argue that some of the DA teams scores are too low but only a handful. (does anyone disagree/have other inputs?)

So what's best way how to get more visibility about the boys CSL premier teams/players to college scouts?

Seems like the college scouts are looking for one/a couple big tournament(s) to go to and/or relying on existing relationships with connected docs/coaches.

ECNL Boys seems to be providing that and likely the MLS League will.

How does CSL premier compete with that? The core piece - the player quality/quality of play - is there and that's critical but not enough.
Click to expand...

I have tracked the results for years and the games I saw, the DA teams usually lost/won to non-DA teams according to the expectations of YSR predictions. The only ones that seem skewed are LAFC and many of the MLS DA's around the country. LAFC should be even higher than they are in composite score and I think that is because they play their subs a lot and early on in the game against the lower level DA's. In fact, LAFC has sent their younger squad to play low level DA's and they still won easily. YSR doesn't know that, it just inputs the data. Had they sent their age appropriate team it would have been a massacre. As I have previously noted the disparities between mls and non mls da's outside California are even larger. So< i expect they are doing the same; they are playing their subs more frerquently and maybe sending younger squads against weaker teams. It's all just more proof that the non mls DA's were a poorly executed plan. Don't even get me started on ODP, what a cluster f***.

You are correct, ECNL seems to have a prestige advantage over the other leagues, especially on the girls' side but I only scout on the boys side and honestly, I follow players and teams not leagues and clubs. Club prestige and history means very little to me until it actually translates to real success. SCDSL copied CSL by having one primary place to play and that definitely helps scouting in practical terms. CSL sends out over 2000 premier guides to coaches and scouts and I think the other leagues will follow suit with print or online links to all those teams and players. But to me the promotion/relegation must be the difference in why a CSL team that is frequently regarded as inferior because of a stigma, frequently beats the top teams from the other leagues that claim superiority. Once again, huge difference between girls and boys regarding these leagues.
 
Time will tell on which of the two programs MLS/USYS vs. ECNL will provide a better platform and be more competitive. My speculation is that both programs will have something to offer from a competitive standpoint and that it will likely vary from region. I expect that ECNL will have an easier time getting the ball rolling. However, the backing of USYS for the MLS league is a big deal. USYS is certainly more competent than US Soccer, but that's a pretty low bar. If I had to guess over the long term I think ECNL will be more competitive for the girls and USYS may be more successful for the boys. Of course, my crystal ball is really cloudy...I don't even know what day it is.

I'm curious to see how ECNL handles pro/rel...whether its team or club based.
 
Dargle said:
CSL Premier is helped by two things: (1) Geography - CSL has clubs in and around soccer-crazy downtown LA and the SFV that serve kids who can't drive to practices all over the area for DA, and (2) DA's funnel structure and prohibition on HS - many CSL premier teams have kids who returned from DA for various reasons.

Some problems, though, from a college scouting perspective is that they no longer have the one stop shopping of having all games in a central spot like UC Irvine (Silverlakes helps, but it's not complete), a decent percentage of kids can't afford or qualify for college (scouts don't want to waste their time on kids who won't or can't go to their schools), and some of the clubs are pretty small and disorganized so that their players are not promoted and educated about college the way that they are in the largest clubs.
Click to expand...
helpful. interesting problem to solve... given that the apple cart has been up-ended, hopefully there's an open-ness to new ideas.

for example, seems like it could now make sense to do the youth equivalent of the US Open Cup.
 
jpeter said:
MLS/USYS calendar year group with the last one combined u18/19 is what I heard. Would be surprised if ECNL is any different

With calendar year and High school ages there is really not a economical or a good way to break those groups up yet unless you just get rid of u19 but that would leave some players out. Participation really declines once you a hit u18 anyway so competition would suffer is the other thought by going that way.
Click to expand...

With a potential delay or cancellation of college play this season and recruiting in up in the air, I could see more gap year players playing u18/u19 which would make this age group a potential fun watch.
 
thedudeabides said:
I have tracked the results for years and the games I saw, the DA teams usually lost/won to non-DA teams according to the expectations of YSR predictions. The only ones that seem skewed are LAFC and many of the MLS DA's around the country. LAFC should be even higher than they are in composite score and I think that is because they play their subs a lot and early on in the game against the lower level DA's. In fact, LAFC has sent their younger squad to play low level DA's and they still won easily. YSR doesn't know that, it just inputs the data. Had they sent their age appropriate team it would have been a massacre. As I have previously noted the disparities between mls and non mls da's outside California are even larger. So< i expect they are doing the same; they are playing their subs more frerquently and maybe sending younger squads against weaker teams. It's all just more proof that the non mls DA's were a poorly executed plan. Don't even get me started on ODP, what a cluster f***.

You are correct, ECNL seems to have a prestige advantage over the other leagues, especially on the girls' side but I only scout on the boys side and honestly, I follow players and teams not leagues and clubs. Club prestige and history means very little to me until it actually translates to real success. SCDSL copied CSL by having one primary place to play and that definitely helps scouting in practical terms. CSL sends out over 2000 premier guides to coaches and scouts and I think the other leagues will follow suit with print or online links to all those teams and players. But to me the promotion/relegation must be the difference in why a CSL team that is frequently regarded as inferior because of a stigma, frequently beats the top teams from the other leagues that claim superiority. Once again, huge difference between girls and boys regarding these leagues.
Click to expand...
agreed. interesting... are the premier guides helpful?

with the DA game reports there was a lot of data, if one wanted to drill down on a player but doesn't seem like leagues track the same data at all.
 
thedudeabides said:
I have tracked the results for years and the games I saw, the DA teams usually lost/won to non-DA teams according to the expectations of YSR predictions. The only ones that seem skewed are LAFC and many of the MLS DA's around the country. LAFC should be even higher than they are in composite score and I think that is because they play their subs a lot and early on in the game against the lower level DA's. In fact, LAFC has sent their younger squad to play low level DA's and they still won easily. YSR doesn't know that, it just inputs the data. Had they sent their age appropriate team it would have been a massacre. As I have previously noted the disparities between mls and non mls da's outside California are even larger. So< i expect they are doing the same; they are playing their subs more frerquently and maybe sending younger squads against weaker teams. It's all just more proof that the non mls DA's were a poorly executed plan. Don't even get me started on ODP, what a cluster f***.

You are correct, ECNL seems to have a prestige advantage over the other leagues, especially on the girls' side but I only scout on the boys side and honestly, I follow players and teams not leagues and clubs. Club prestige and history means very little to me until it actually translates to real success. SCDSL copied CSL by having one primary place to play and that definitely helps scouting in practical terms. CSL sends out over 2000 premier guides to coaches and scouts and I think the other leagues will follow suit with print or online links to all those teams and players. But to me the promotion/relegation must be the difference in why a CSL team that is frequently regarded as inferior because of a stigma, frequently beats the top teams from the other leagues that claim superiority. Once again, huge difference between girls and boys regarding these leagues.
Click to expand...
So, what age group does your LAFC boy play on?
 
gottouch said:
So, what age group does your LAFC boy play on?
Click to expand...

I don't have a son that plays for LAFC. I have been to many of their youth matches and scouted many of their players. I'm just making observations on what I have seen from tracking players/teams for many years using stats and real results over hype. Was anything I said about them not true or overly biased? I know for a fact they have been beating up non-mls DA's for the last few years and sometimes with youngers. You can't have a so called uniform DA system when there is a 5-6 goal difference between the top and bottom. It's bad for both ends of the spectrum.
 
Son said:
Another complaint former MLS DAs had was that they did not want to run U12, U14, U5 programs. They wanted to operate only U17 and U19. Now it sounds like they are running a full league across all ages. If that is the case, will the new USYS league split up the U16 and U17?

I anticipate that ECNL will have U16, U17 and U18.
Click to expand...
ECNL currently have 6 age groups starting at 12. I don't think it will change.
 
Kante said:
agreed. interesting... are the premier guides helpful?

with the DA game reports there was a lot of data, if one wanted to drill down on a player but doesn't seem like leagues track the same data at all.
Click to expand...

The premier media guides are cool but I think they would be much more practical if the players that really wanted to be recruited put their email and/or link to their bio on the media guide team page. The way they do it, there isn't much room for player info so it is a team photo, team bio, and head shot of each player. It's mostly used to contact the coach to further inquire about the player.
 
Another important point with most ECNL teams vs CSL and SCDSL teams- most teams hold their kids to a GPA requirement. ECNL is designed for the college going player. They will cut very good players if they can’t do well in school.

I spoke to the Oxnard coach in CRL last season and he only had 1 or 2 NCAA qualifiers on their entire roster. Outstanding players but college isn’t an option for most of those players.

a player on the team I’m familiar with had a DA kid leave and move to his ECNL team and his ECNL team had many more college commits than the DA team he left. 2/3rd of the boys went on to play around the country. Many of those kids went D3 to highly rated academic school
 
Bubba said:
If MLS is trying to be like the r

Everyone worries to much about which league your son plays. During league play its when colleges are in season. Coaches are really busy. Get on a good team with a good coach , play major touraments . Remember you are competing now with foreign players that are on every college teams also.
Click to expand...

Yes, totally agree. However, take the DA example. You had a league that was supposed to be the best and parents/players bought into that but the players for the non-mls DA's were just like all the club players except they thought they were better because they wore a DA patch. When a kid and parent thinks their kid is much better than they are, it stifles growth and desire. But yes, absolutely, find a team and coach that will push your kid to their limit and extract the very best from them and that kid will go far regardless of what league they are in.
 
Son said:
Are Albion, LAUFC, Nomads, TFA and Barca traditionally strong boys teams?
Click to expand...

I'm not going to tear down individual clubs. Every age group is different. Look those individual age groups up for those clubs on YSR and you will know the answer. With the way teams are aggressively recruiting players today, it's all about the team and coach. TFA's strongest team for years was '04 SFV but politics led them to leave. That team lost two of their top players to LAFC and still managed to win CSL Premier under a different club banner. Coaches and team chemistry matter over individual players and club prestige.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top