Vaccine

dad4 said:
For facts, Mayo clinic has a decent page.

www.mayoclinic.org

Get the facts about COVID-19 vaccines

Find out about the COVID-19 vaccines, the benefits of COVID-19 vaccination and the possible side effects.
www.mayoclinic.org www.mayoclinic.org

Not really experimental at this point. About 2 billion people have been vaccinated so far. If there were a risk, they would have seen it by now.
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Of course it's still experimental and there are documented risks. To many, many, people, to call it a vaccine is silly to begin with.

This is another impediment to vaccine buy in - the dishonest approach to "selling" the vaccine is noticed by many. The FDA is doing a decent job of deflecting political pressure to approve the vaccine without undergoing due process. By definition, these vaccines don't even meet the definition of a vaccine posted on the CDC website.

Now, do they work in minimizing hospitalization and severity of symptoms...of course they do, we can see it. Does it provide immunity? No Does it prevent transmission? No. Do we understand the long term effects? NOPE. We don't fully understand how these vaccines effect our immune system long term. This is scary for parents of young children and people in their mid 20s and 30s. No animal testing was done - we are the guinea pigs about to participate in a 2 year study.

This vaxx issue is very complicated. To simplify it and make it part of the culture war will only backfire. We are not going to vaxx everyone. To vaxx young children is irresponsible. In the end money may win out.

To be clear, I'm vaxxed. My profession strongly encourages it and I'm on the downhill side of the mountain. I'm not as concerned about long term effects. Will I encourage my DDs to vaxx...not even close. Healthy young men and women have a long life ahead of them. I don't have an issue with masks, wear them..not a big deal. I've been wearing a mask for one reason or another for a long time. Uncomfortable at times..yes.
 
what-happened said:
Of course it's still experimental and there are documented risks. To many, many, people, to call it a vaccine is silly to begin with.

This is another impediment to vaccine buy in - the dishonest approach to "selling" the vaccine is noticed by many. The FDA is doing a decent job of deflecting political pressure to approve the vaccine without undergoing due process. By definition, these vaccines don't even meet the definition of a vaccine posted on the CDC website.

Now, do they work in minimizing hospitalization and severity of symptoms...of course they do, we can see it. Does it provide immunity? No Does it prevent transmission? No. Do we understand the long term effects? NOPE. We don't fully understand how these vaccines effect our immune system long term. This is scary for parents of young children and people in their mid 20s and 30s. No animal testing was done - we are the guinea pigs about to participate in a 2 year study.

This vaxx issue is very complicated. To simplify it and make it part of the culture war will only backfire. We are not going to vaxx everyone. To vaxx young children is irresponsible. In the end money may win out.

To be clear, I'm vaxxed. My profession strongly encourages it and I'm on the downhill side of the mountain. I'm not as concerned about long term effects. Will I encourage my DDs to vaxx...not even close. Healthy young men and women have a long life ahead of them. I don't have an issue with masks, wear them..not a big deal. I've been wearing a mask for one reason or another for a long time. Uncomfortable at times..yes.
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Why is it silly to call it a vaccine?
 
dad4 said:
Sample size is pretty darn small. Only 5% of participants were previously infected.

They were trying to draw conclusions from a sample size of 1220 previously infected but recently vaccinated patients. It is no surprise that they couldn’t get a significant result. The study was completely underpowered.

This is why their confidence interval was “0 to infinity” for the previously infected group. The data didn’t say anything this time.

You’d need a considerably larger study to say anything other than “we don’t know.”. Preferably in India, where you can find out about the value of the vaccine against a new variant.

I really wish they would stop printed underpowered studies as proof of a negative. There is a statistical standard for demonstrating the lack of a correlation. This study does not meet it.
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Speaking of underpowered, why are you avoiding looking at the data from the last 20 to 50 years of upper respiratory diseases instead of just the last year and a half? Not to mention the use of the PCR test that only finds dead pieces of nucleotides that become "cases" while IFR, updated in March of 2021, worse case is .00008 for the school children that L.A. wants to mask? Leveraging fear with an IFR of .00008 is just plain old stupid and an indictment of our publication education system.
 
Grace T. said:
I might if there were some notable benefit to them in it...such as not having to test and not having to mask.
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We know zero in regards to long term effects. All anyone can say is that right now, things look OK. Some Anaphylaxis here, some neuro problems t there, no biggee...Besides, most of this stuff is self reported..likely running around 10%. Many adverse effects go unreported. VAERS is a public venue, anyone can access it.

Many is the medical community are held hostage by big pharma. Do some digging around, you'll see that many Drs across multiple disciplines had their education funded by big pharma or their schools influenced by them.
 
espola said:
More voluntarily-exposed idiots.
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72 million people 17 and under. 350 deaths.

There is no reason this group of people should get vaxxed. As a matter of fact they have no worries whatsoever related to covid.

It is only idiots and trolls like you that think...yeah lets make this group be vaxxed and masked.
 
They can go F themselves.

"European-style vaccine "passes" may be an option for the U.S. in the future, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said Wednesday.
Walensky spoke with CNN's John Berman one day after the CDC updated mask guidelines for vaccinated individuals. The CDC, after seeing a surge in cases involving the delta variant, now recommends fully vaccinated Americans mask up indoors in high transmission areas of the country.

When probed about next steps, Berman wondered if the CDC would ever "lean into" vaccine passes....

"You know, I think some communities are doing that and that may very well be a path forward," Walensky declared. "I do want to sort of comment that in some fully vaccinated venues, if they're unmasked and there are a few people who are transmitting there... Overall it's so very critical to just get the huge amount of disease in some of these areas down."
 
espola said:
I thought I was asking the person who put forward that novel idea.
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You have the basic capacity to pick it up where I left off. I'm gonna go put on my mask and hang out for a while. I look forward to what you find. Reach out to some of your contacts at the CDC and have them explain to you what a vaccine is. And then ask them what gene therapy is.
 
what-happened said:
You have the basic capacity to pick it up where I left off. I'm gonna go put on my mask and hang out for a while. I look forward to what you find. Reach out to some of your contacts at the CDC and have them explain to you what a vaccine is. And then ask them what gene therapy is.
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It looks like you are attempting to make your mistake go away by deflecting from a direct answer. If you like, you can just post a link to the nugget that made you think you were correct.
 
espola said:
Reducing the likelihood of illness, long-term health damage, or death is not enough for you?
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Taking each in turn:

-likelihood of illness: in kids??? they are sick all the time. In others? they have the chance already to be protected from severe illness and illness is part of the human condition
-long term health damage: in them? long COVID is rare in kids and in any case one of them has had it. Since they are both boys, there is a small if real risk of myocarditis so for them the risk/benefit ratio is pretty much a wash. In others? they've had the chance already to be protected through vaccination.
-death: in them? Fewer than 1000 kids have died of COVID and almost all of them had significant health problems. In others, deaths among the vaccinated are on the floor.
 
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