Surf ENCL vs. Slammers Koge

[SoccerSanDiego]

We are not talking tactics, we are talking pressure. Athletes that can apply pressure exist outside of letter leagues. Maybe playing in an adult female futbol rapido league will apply more pressure. Maybe playing pickup with 12-13 y/o boys will apply more pressure. Maybe doing rondo’s will apply more pressure. Hell, my old ass can chase her while she has the ball and apply pressure.

So, can we agree that there’s a wide range of athletes that can apply pressure outside of the letter leagues? If so, what is the benefit of a letter league if the vast majority of players do not have the requisite skill set to learn basic tactics?

Tactics and pressure go hand in hand. If you dont know how to defend, you can't apply effective pressure...you chasing your daughter in the yard is very different than the multutude of decisions that have to happen very quickly against a skilled team.

If she is getting that outside of club, great...kuddos to you. Personally I think the club system sucks and wish there were other alternatives. Most clubs promise a lot but deliver little...its like a puppy mill but for kids.

 

[MacDre]

Tactics and pressure go hand in hand. If you dont know how to defend, you can't apply effective pressure...you chasing your daughter in the yard is very different than the multutude of decisions that have to happen very quickly against a skilled team.

If she is getting that outside of club, great...kuddos to you. Personally I think the club system sucks and wish there were other alternatives. Most clubs promise a lot but deliver little...its like a puppy mill but for kids.

Thanks for your candor and for letting me off the hook so I don’t have to chase my kid around.

At the beginning of this a academic year the AD of my kids school assured me club soccer was a scam. The AD recommended that my kid run XC, play high school soccer in winter, swim team in the spring, and a summer league like WPSL or the USL W league while continuing technical training throughout the year. The AD’s plan makes sense to me. I’m just curious as to why folks have a singular focus on club soccer and have discounted high school sports.

 

[Avanti]

Your position is presumptuous. Maybe your family has different goals. What’s skills are we trying to assess? Wrestling?

I am simply trying to assess how olders players have benefited tactically by playing in letter leagues where the vast majority of players can’t play 2-touch?

I’m not judging. I’m simply making and observation and seeking clarification so I can have all information before I proceed. Even geniuses ask questions homie.

I’ll ask again since you keep refusing to answer my simple question: what’s the benefit of a letter league if the vast majority of players don’t have the requisite skill set to learn basic tactics?

I am going to reply because you seem to be genuinely asking, and then will go away. Just in case it helps, you should know that a few of the people that are replying in this thread have girls that have reached the goals of your daughter (YNT and/or college, I am discounting "going pro" because as of today there is not really such a thing for women, except for those that make senior NT and have inflated contracts).
I can teach my girls most aspects of technique better than most coaches, because I have played a lot at a high level. However it is impossible for me to teach them other equally important aspects of soccer such as how to play within a team (positioning with respect to all other players, speed of play, pressing, controlling yourself, etc), because you need a group of girls (or boys) that play at the same level or better than your daughter to do so. You cannot learn this by watching videos, using a whiteboard or by yourself in the park. If you think that soccer learning in a good club team is bad (which is obviously utter nonsense), wait to see the learning in a high school team.
You do not make any sense when you keep repeating two touch play. Two touch play is not a tactic, a skill, a soccer shangrila or anything else. It is at most a rule that a coach may impose in practice during a rondo or some other "possession" drill. You should be talking about ability to control the ball in different settings, passing the ball, space awareness, speed of play etc. Repeating ad nauseam that two touch play is the way to play soccer makes you sound funny

 

[MacDre]

I am going to reply because you seem to be genuinely asking, and then will go away. Just in case it helps, you should know that a few of the people that are replying in this thread have girls that have reached the goals of your daughter (YNT and/or college, I am discounting "going pro" because as of today there is not really such a thing for women, except for those that make senior NT and have inflated contracts).
I can teach my girls most aspects of technique better than most coaches, because I have played a lot at a high level. However it is impossible for me to teach them other equally important aspects of soccer such as how to play within a team (positioning with respect to all other players, speed of play, pressing, controlling yourself, etc), because you need a group of girls (or boys) that play at the same level or better than your daughter to do so. You cannot learn this by watching videos, using a whiteboard or by yourself in the park. If you think that soccer learning in a good club team is bad (which is obviously utter nonsense), wait to see the learning in a high school team.
You do not make any sense when you keep repeating two touch play. Two touch play is not a tactic, a skill, a soccer shangrila or anything else. It is at most a rule that a coach may impose in practice during a rondo or some other "possession" drill. You should be talking about ability to control the ball in different settings, passing the ball, space awareness, speed of play etc. Repeating ad nauseam that two touch play is the way to play soccer makes you sound funny

When I talk of 2-touch that is specific to speed of play and comfort on the ball; lets not argue over semantics. In other words, if a player is comfortable on the ball and has situational awareness they rarely if ever need more than 2 touches which makes the speed of play fast as opposed to slow play where there are excessive touches and no situational awareness. Again, watch a professional game in any professional league besides MLS and get back at me.

If many of the folks commenting on my post have YNT quality players, then I respectfully submit they should understand my inquiry and give a nuanced explanation for clarity.

 

[Kicker4Life]

Finally, I have posted questions on this forum seeking clarification from those further ahead in the process such as what is the benefit of a letter league if the vast majority of players don’t have the requisite skill set to learn basic tactics?

It is interesting that with such limited exposure the game, that you are drawing so many broad conclusions. Have your ever attended any of the “Letter League” Showcases to watch some of the Top Teams play? Have you watched MVLA’s ‘04’s or Solar or TopHat play, especially against one another?

Soccer/Futbol is a vast universe with not just one skill set. My Dd is pretty far along in he process. We’ve been fortunate to find high quality Coaches who teach the tactics and game mentality. The technical stuff is up to the player to do in their own, outside of the team environment.

These “Letter Leagues” provide a competitive format. You could even put her on a Boys team in a league like OM and T sisters.

 

[timbuck]

Thanks for your candor and for letting me off the hook so I don’t have to chase my kid around.

At the beginning of this a academic year the AD of my kids school assured me club soccer was a scam. The AD recommended that my kid run XC, play high school soccer in winter, swim team in the spring, and a summer league like WPSL or the USL W league while continuing technical training throughout the year. The AD’s plan makes sense to me. I’m just curious as to why folks have a singular focus on club soccer and have discounted high school sports.

I think one of the biggest problems with most club soccer teams at older age groups is that you only have 1 coach per team. 1 coach running a training session for 17 teenage girls/boys is really hard to do effectively. These are the age groups when girls usually have specific positions. Breaking into smaller groups to work on specific technical and tactical aspects of the game can be very helpful. Versus a coach running a 90 minute session to try and fit the needs to the entire team collectively.
So most coaches work on a tactical part of the game for 20 minutes, roll out a small sided game to try and focus on that aspect and then they scrimmage another team that they share a field field for the last 30 minutes.

 

[MacDre]

These “Letter Leagues” provide a competitive format.

Could you be more specific and explain how letter leagues provide benefit in the 4 areas of development: technical, tactical, mental, and physical? What does competitive format mean to you? Can high school sports also provide a competitive format?

I am particularly interested in information regarding how my kids tactical understanding of the game will improve by playing in a league where the vast majority of the players are not comfortable enough on the ball to play fast 1-2 touch soccer?

 

[Soccerfan2]

When I talk of 2-touch that is specific to speed of play and comfort on the ball; lets not argue over semantics. In other words, if a player is comfortable on the ball and has situational awareness they rarely if ever need more than 2 touches which makes the speed of play fast as opposed to slow play where there are excessive touches and no situational awareness. Again, watch a professional game in any professional league besides MLS and get back at me.

If many of the folks commenting on my post have YNT quality players, then I respectfully submit they should understand my inquiry and give a nuanced explanation for clarity.

You are missing out on the chance to learn from a lot of people that know better than you do because you’re stuck on your own ego. At least 4 parents of YNT/high level players have now given you similar advice - that there is value in the club soccer environment for many reasons, some of which are unique and cannot be duplicated elsewhere. My suggestion is to stop talking and listen to the quality answers that you’ve already been provided. All your questions have been answered if you would slow down and actually read. High school soccer and WPSL are valuable extra resources for their own reasons but are insufficient replacements.
There are zero high level players who have elected to forgo the club environment and play only high school and WPSL. There are many high level players who play WPSL in addition to club. Nobody plays high school to gain skill because the majority of players in high school have lower skill. There are exactly three high level players who have opted out of female club soccer - AT/GT play for a boys club and OM plays professionally. AT/GT are exceptional and played all the way up in the oldest age group for several years (and excelled) before they moved out and into a boys club.
You want to do it another way? Have at it. But it’ll be a lot harder and it’s unnecessary. I guess you have to decide if you actually want to learn from others or not. I’ve spent FAR too much time on this already so I’m out.

 

[MacDre]

You are missing out on the chance to learn from a lot of people that know better than you do because you’re stuck on your own ego. At least 4 parents of YNT/high level players have now given you similar advice - that there is value in the club soccer environment for many reasons, some of which are unique and cannot be duplicated elsewhere. My suggestion is to stop talking and listen to the quality answers that you’ve already been provided. All your questions have been answered if you would slow down and actually read. High school soccer and WPSL are valuable extra resources for their own reasons but are insufficient replacements.
There are zero high level players who have elected to forgo the club environment and play only high school and WPSL. There are many high level players who play WPSL in addition to club. Nobody plays high school to gain skill because the majority of players in high school have lower skill. There are exactly three high level players who have opted out of female club soccer - AT/GT play for a boys club and OM plays professionally. AT/GT are exceptional and played all the way up in the oldest age group for several years (and excelled) before they moved out and into a boys club.
You want to do it another way? Have at it. But it’ll be a lot harder and it’s unnecessary. I guess you have to decide if you actually want to learn from others or not. I’ve spent FAR too much time on this already so I’m out.

You have not answered my question. My inquiry is only about tactics. Could you please explain the tactical benefit of playing in a letter league?
I haven’t made a decision. I’m simply going through my process of “turning stones.”

 

[SoccerSanDiego]

Thanks for your candor and for letting me off the hook so I don’t have to chase my kid around.

At the beginning of this a academic year the AD of my kids school assured me club soccer was a scam. The AD recommended that my kid run XC, play high school soccer in winter, swim team in the spring, and a summer league like WPSL or the USL W league while continuing technical training throughout the year. The AD’s plan makes sense to me. I’m just curious as to why folks have a singular focus on club soccer and have discounted high school sports.

I still think she can benefit from playing on a level A team...take the blues top teams, they are excellent...but once you get below the level A team, quality usually drops a lot...and the ability to move up is difficult. Your daughter needs to PLAY to reach your goals for her...and that won't happen in a pool. Play where is the question...on a boys team, flight 1 A team, etc are all options...but you are misguided to think these other sports will help her as much as playing.

Club soccer is only a scam if you think its going to do everything for your kid or you believe the "we will develop your player" bs. Lower level club teams don't develop...they collect dues to pay for all the freebies they give to A teams to support the brand.

And quite often, many coaches don't coach...they run drills.

 

[MacDre]

I still think she can benefit from playing on a level A team...take the blues top teams, they are excellent...but once you get below the level A team, quality usually drops a lot...and the ability to move up is difficult. Your daughter needs to PLAY to reach your goals for her...and that won't happen in a pool. Play where is the question...on a boys team, flight 1 A team, etc are all options...but you are misguided to think these other sports will help her as much as playing.

Club soccer is only a scam if you think its going to do everything for your kid or you believe the "we will develop your player" bs. Lower level club teams don't develop...they collect dues to pay for all the freebies they give to A teams to support the brand.

And quite often, many coaches don't coach...they run drills.

To clarify, I don’t think the other sports will develop her more than playing. For example, I see running 2-3 miles fast as a prerequisite to college soccer (see Stanford fitness packett upthread). Learning how to run 2-3 miles fast is drudgery for many and running XC and meeting new friends makes it more palatable; I also think that running cross country falls under the physical development aspect of soccer.
I also think swim team will contribute to cardiovascular fitness and offer active recovery; I think this goes under the physical development aspect of soccer development.

My kid will play somewhere after XC season is over.

 

[soccersc]

You have not answered my question. My inquiry is only about tactics. Could you please explain the tactical benefit of playing in a letter league?
I haven’t made a decision. I’m simply going through my process of “turning stones.”

Good questions!! Club soccer is so frustrating. In my experience, if you are in a letter league, you have a better chance to have a coach that can teach and understand tactically how to play. This isn't always the case, but I think you'll have a better chance of having a coach that can teach tactics at that level thana coach on a high school soccer team or on a lower level club team.

With that in mind, think about the level of players you are playing with, very difficult to teach tactics when the players aren't capable of playing at a high level. Look at Pirlo when he went to NYC, an amazing player, but drop him in on a team that isn't at the same level tactically or technically and he looks just average. Players you play with make a difference in how you play...Then you also have to think about what training sessions will look like, players on letter league teams are going to be working hard and trying to earn time that is only given out to the top players, creating an environment that will challenge and help improve all players...not going to find as much of that on lower level teams/leagues.

 

[Kicker4Life]

Could you be more specific and explain how letter leagues provide benefit in the 4 areas of development: technical, tactical, mental, and physical? What does competitive format mean to you? Can high school sports also provide a competitive format?

I am particularly interested in information regarding how my kids tactical understanding of the game will improve by playing in a league where the vast majority of the players are not comfortable enough on the ball to play fast 1-2 touch soccer?

I will say your emphasis on 2 touch shows your lack of depth in understanding the game and I do t mean that as an insult.

Yes, but first need to preface this with leagues don’t develop players. Players, Coaches, parents, trainers…they develop players. Leagues provide a format and platform for those players to “express” what the aforementioned teach them.

There is too much to try and unpack for you so I’ll simply focus on some tactical issues.

First, your DD won’t learn the different positional responsibilities playing pick up. For example, the difference between a trailers role in a 433 versus a 352 or 451 for that matter. How do you team a player their roll in a high press or low block without training scenarios? For example, w hat is the roll of the 11 or the 7 in a 433 when the 9 presses the outside left back?

Second, Is the “team environments”. As it was pointed out, soccer is a team sport. The cohesive off the ball movement needed to execute your favored “2 touch” style of play will never develop individually. Yes you can train movement and touch, but nothing prepares you for the spontaneous aspect of the game like playing the game in a system against organized opposition.

To address HS, it depends on the HS. Some HS’s train like Clubs, higher Club coaches and play a system. But if you think the letter leagues are bad….try watching HS. At least in leagues, they have consolidated talent and look for skilled players for each position. HS for the most part is limited to the pool of players in their HS. So it is actually contradictory to you point about “Letter Leagues”

You keep referring to the “vast majority” of players inabilities but have admittedly only watched a few local games, which is a very broad generalization.

If you think your 13yr old will be able to beat out College age kids for an WPSL spot without playing consistently in an organized environment, you will likely face a tough awakening.

If you want to discuss further, DM me. I don’t want to continue to Jack this thread.

 

[LASTMAN14]

You have not answered my question. My inquiry is only about tactics. Could you please explain the tactical benefit of playing in a letter league?
I haven’t made a decision. I’m simply going through my process of “turning stones.”

Here is an example of playing in a Letter League regarding tactics that I have observed being implemented and instructed to my own children. It is an exercise that I am quite well aware of and have seen being taught at training specifically to target this lesson, implemented at games and coached during game settings. One of Barcelona's methods is the pressing method when the ball is lost to regain it as quickly as possible. Now Barcelona have a specific methods to address this. It is quite detailed. To teach this tactic my children did video sessions reviewing games to show where this tactic could be implemented. It is then carried to the field through a series of on field activities during training. Then during games implemented by players and encouraged by the staff. Another bout of video sessions to review the effectiveness and where changes could be made.
I am sure you have heard of 3four3 but here is a podcast.

Episode 216: How to Dictate the Game With and Without the Ball Using Possession and Pressure. - 3four3

In this short episode, Brian Kleiban and I discuss how you can dictate the game with and without the ball. We focus specifically on the “two P’s” of the 3four3 philosophy. What are the 2 P’s of the 3four3 identity? 1. Possession 2. Pressure Possession is a word that gets thrown around a lot. A …

343coaching.com

 

[crush]

Could you be more specific and explain how letter leagues provide benefit in the 4 areas of development: technical, tactical, mental, and physical? What does competitive format mean to you? Can high school sports also provide a competitive format?

I am particularly interested in information regarding how my kids tactical understanding of the game will improve by playing in a league where the vast majority of the players are not comfortable enough on the ball to play fast 1-2 touch soccer?

1-2 is another way of saying, "collect ((touch)) and then give and go" Great stuff Dre. I get what your getting at, right?

 

[MicPaPa]

Over time on this forum, I have read your comments indicating that:
- It’s racist that Wasserman represents Moultrie but won’t return your calls after your daughter was moved up to practice with the U15 and occasionally U17 LaLiga feminil teams at Xolos (you called this “going pro”). To bolster this argument you told us all how Cal posted your kid on their Instagram after a kiddie camp.
- YNT is a waste of time and you are only interested in your daughter going straight to the full national team or playing for one of the several other countries’ YNT teams that your she qualifies for
- NCAA soccer is beneath you
- Club soccer in the US is beneath you
- Anyone who doesn’t get a college degree by 16 is slacking
- US soccer should be expected to come to Mexico and scout your 11 year old early for the U14 YNT

When you reflect back on all that, can you see the ridiculousness yet?

If she loves soccer, what if you just take your kid to your local club tryouts and let her be a kid and play as several people who know this sport well have advised? It sounds to me like you’ve got a bunch of excuses why not. What’s the real barrier?? It’s a game to be enjoyed for fun. If she works hard and kicks everyone’s ass it’ll all emerge as you wish in due time. If her talent exceeds the rest of her environment, you’ll find some new doors to open. Better test that out first though. 13 is still pretty young!

Yes, that’s all meant to be very conclusory.

Side note: my kid doesn’t often run outside of soccer practice or games anymore and she can sure as heck handle 90 minutes plus at full speed and exceed the college level beep test standard. She ran XC in middle school and won the league but never practiced with XC team as she got plenty of load at club soccer practice and we wanted her to avoid overuse.

He has a deck of victim cards... Constantly playing them.

 

[MacDre]

He has a deck of victim cards... Constantly playing them.

You have got life and bullshit twisted. I dedicate this Bay Area slapper to you square:

 

[kickingandscreaming]

Thanks for your candor and for letting me off the hook so I don’t have to chase my kid around.

At the beginning of this a academic year the AD of my kids school assured me club soccer was a scam. The AD recommended that my kid run XC, play high school soccer in winter, swim team in the spring, and a summer league like WPSL or the USL W league while continuing technical training throughout the year. The AD’s plan makes sense to me. I’m just curious as to why folks have a singular focus on club soccer and have discounted high school sports.

My initial thought is that the AD has a vested interest in your daughter not playing club. That doesn't mean the advice isn't valid, just that it's prone to bias. In my daughter's experience at two top-level "clubs" (MVLA and those clubs associated with Deza's path), every parent and player I talked to thought club soccer was much better in terms of training and skills of teammates and competition. Invariably, HS soccer was done for the social aspect. I loved HS sports and am a bit sorry my daughter didn't play in HS but that was her choice. My limited experience with WPSL would make me concerned with the level of physical play for younger players, especially if they are smaller. Given my choices, I'd definitely take our club soccer experience over that for a High School-aged player.

I don't believe there is only one path to fulfilling soccer potential. Mixing in a variety of sports, trainers, and training methods can help keep a child motivated to get better. Nothing is more important than that. Previously you mentioned that you have gone to a few clubs, observed training, and talked to the coaches. My suggestion for you would be to contact one of the clubs you felt was the best match for your daughter and talk to them about finishing the year with a team after HS season is over in Feb/Mar. Wait until January - every coach will tell you the best time to join is ASAP . It won't require a full-year commitment and you'll get a taste of club soccer to see if it is good for your daughter.

 

[Texas2Cali]

@MacDre what happened at Xolos Femenil?

 

[MacDre]

@MacDre what happened at Xolos Femenil?

You tell me. What happened?