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happy9 said:
Ulittles especially don't have the body control, for the most part.
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True on both sides of the ball. Seen plenty of clean shoulder barges where the player on the receiving end flops or disproportionately falls off balance... sidelines calling for a foul based on contact and the ‘look’ of the players response. Ref swallowing the whistle being the right call, but parents outraged none-the-less.

Do the sidelines mature along with the players as they age and progress? Haven’t experienced it yet, but I’m hopeful.
 
Going back to being physical, IMO there is nothing good about a player who is intentionally dirty or agressive just because that's all they have going for them.
My DD has been described as a "finesse" player- not the most physical player on the field at all, but good with her feet. She had an old teammate, (yes-teammate,) with definite anger issues. When my DD would fake her out and get around her, she'd go for the ankles every time- not the ball, the ankle. In a game, this player and the opposing team's forward got tangled up and fell down-as she was coming down, she "hooked" the other girl in the back with her cleat, simply because the girl had consistently beaten her. She was physical solely for the lack of other skills- dangerous anyway you slice it.
 
happy9 said:
Ramos is a good defender but one of the dirtiest players in La Liga. Take a peek at Virgil van Dijk from liverpool. Maybe the best CB on the planet
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Yes he does push the limit. Virgil excellent also and plays up top on corners and other free kick set plays.
 
N00B said:
True on both sides of the ball. Seen plenty of clean shoulder barges where the player on the receiving end flops or disproportionately falls off balance... sidelines calling for a foul based on contact and the ‘look’ of the players response. Ref swallowing the whistle being the right call, but parents outraged none-the-less.

Do the sidelines mature along with the players as they age and progress? Haven’t experienced it yet, but I’m hopeful.
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I think so, I've gotten way quieter over the years...lol
 
dad4 said:
Here's the definition of the foul you're advocating:

Impeding the progress of an opponent means moving into the path of the opponent to obstruct, block, slow down or force a change of direction by an opponent when the ball is not within playing distance of either player.

A good ref will see that foul for what it is. Unfortunately, far too many referees are afraid of their own whistle.
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The term your looking for is “Tactical Foul”.
 
Kicker4Life said:
The term your looking for is “Tactical Foul”.
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A tactical foul is something you typically see in the midfield area. If a player gets a fast break a defender may grab him or a jersey and intentionally take a foul to stop a fast break or a 2v1 or something.
 
Lavey29 said:
A tactical foul is something you typically see in the midfield area. If a player gets a fast break a defender may grab him or a jersey and intentionally take a foul to stop a fast break or a 2v1 or something.
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So why not just give the yellow (promising attack) or the red (goal scoring opportunity? (depending on location of other players and distance to goal.)

We have no problem stopping the game for very questionable handballs. Why do we treat deliberate fouls as less important than ball to arm situations in the box?
 
Lavey29 said:
A tactical foul is something you typically see in the midfield area. If a player gets a fast break a defender may grab him or a jersey and intentionally take a foul to stop a fast break or a 2v1 or something.
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I couldn't have imagined this would become such an argument. I know I didn't start the initial bit, but in my response I was advocating for using your body to defend, more like using the body to push the forward out wide, putting your hand on their back and being right up on them but positioned well enough to not get beat by a move. Another example is using your body to hold position on set pieces. I used the counter example of Giroud because he is big and physical and it's hard to move him off the ball. He won't beat you with trickery very often, but he will beat you by being physical and holding a defender off to either lay the ball off or release the shot. In older ages and adult soccer there is a lot of contact and a lot of physical play. You have to have the temperament to deal with all of the pushing and jostling or else you lose it and get yellow and red cards. A good defender will figure out if a player doesn't have the right temperament and will tactically jostle them around to get them more worried about them than playing the game.
 
dad4 said:
So why not just give the yellow (promising attack) or the red (goal scoring opportunity? (depending on location of other players and distance to goal.)

We have no problem stopping the game for very questionable handballs. Why do we treat deliberate fouls as less important than ball to arm situations in the box?
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As I said, tactical fouls typically happen in the midfield area and generally are not the dangerous play type that get carded but you are right intentional and or dangerous play fouls fouls in or near the 18 do often receive cards because they are taking away a true scoring opportunity. Hand balls has to be an intentional movement where the arm is not in a natural position. It is subjective during the fluidity of play and the viewing angle of the ref. We have all seen them called unnecessarily and also completely missed by the ref. Guess we need VAR and 4th ref at all the kids games now. Oh wait, there are no games really.
 
dad4 said:
So why not just give the yellow (promising attack) or the red (goal scoring opportunity? (depending on location of other players and distance to goal.)

We have no problem stopping the game for very questionable handballs. Why do we treat deliberate fouls as less important than ball to arm situations in the box?
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You typically do earn a yellow on something like that. I've often felt like they weren't worth a card... especially when they occur as a fledgling counter attack in the defensive 3rd.
 
ITFC Blues said:
I couldn't have imagined this would become such an argument. I know I didn't start the initial bit, but in my response I was advocating for using your body to defend, more like using the body to push the forward out wide, putting your hand on their back and being right up on them but positioned well enough to not get beat by a move. Another example is using your body to hold position on set pieces. I used the counter example of Giroud because he is big and physical and it's hard to move him off the ball. He won't beat you with trickery very often, but he will beat you by being physical and holding a defender off to either lay the ball off or release the shot. In older ages and adult soccer there is a lot of contact and a lot of physical play. You have to have the temperament to deal with all of the pushing and jostling or else you lose it and get yellow and red cards. A good defender will figure out if a player doesn't have the right temperament and will tactically jostle them around to get them more worried about them than playing the game.
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As a defender you want to force them to try and beat you outside. The sideline is your friend. Your stance should be bladed with your chest facing out towards the sideline as you are backing and waiting for the offensive movement. All the other stuff you posted about body positioning I agree with. Giroud is a post up player center forward. I agree with your description. Everyone should remember for our kids playing " you dont have to be great at everything but you have to be great at something " to really stand out on the pitch and college observers. I dont think Ronaldo is a very good passer or even 1v1 dribble but he certainly is great at getting advantage position and finishing plays in the net.
 
Lavey29 said:
As a defender you want to force them to try and beat you outside. The sideline is your friend. Your stance should be bladed with your chest facing out towards the sideline as you are backing and waiting for the offensive movement. All the other stuff you posted about body positioning I agree with. Giroud is a post up player center forward. I agree with your description. Everyone should remember for our kids playing " you dont have to be great at everything but you have to be great at something " to really stand out on the pitch and college observers. I dont think Ronaldo is a very good passer or even 1v1 dribble but he certainly is great at getting advantage position and finishing plays in the net.
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No doubt Ronaldo isn't a good passer, never was, never will be, didn't need to. At his prime, arguably one of the hardest 1 v 1 players to defend. Great dribbling skills and almost impossible to move off the ball. Also hard to defend in the air - has/had crazy NBA hops.

Defending really comes down to denying or closing space, whether it's inside or outside.
 
happy9 said:
No doubt Ronaldo isn't a good passer, never was, never will be, didn't need to. At his prime, arguably one of the hardest 1 v 1 players to defend. Great dribbling skills and almost impossible to move off the ball. Also hard to defend in the air - has/had crazy NBA hops.

Defending really comes down to denying or closing space, whether it's inside or outside.
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Maybe in his prime but now dribble is so so but he is still one of the most dangerous players in the box.
 
You don't see the best defenders most of the time because they stop things from happening ahead of time. They block the run, deny the pass, step the back line up, play on the shoulder and intercept the ball before there's an issue. Ramos is one of the best of all time. Think of it this way...Imagine how hard it must be to captain a recurring champions league winning team with such domination and effect, whilst also displaying disdain for an opponent's existence and well-being, in the most heavily refereed and analyzed era of the game. Not an easy feat. The guy is a 1%er.
 
Sunil Illuminati said:
You don't see the best defenders most of the time because they stop things from happening ahead of time. They block the run, deny the pass, step the back line up, play on the shoulder and intercept the ball before there's an issue. Ramos is one of the best of all time. Think of it this way...Imagine how hard it must be to captain a recurring champions league winning team with such domination and effect, whilst also displaying disdain for an opponent's existence and well-being, in the most heavily refereed and analyzed era of the game. Not an easy feat. The guy is a 1%er.
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Well stated , important to know that you dont incorporate physical play while just in defensive mode. Offensive players use physical play also particularly while trying to create a little space for their shot. Upper body conditioning is just as essential as running conditioning. Kids last team would hit the gym and do weights at the end of field practice.
 
If you want to watch a good, solid defender, catch a Burnley game and keep your eye on Ben Mee. Dude always knows what he's doing, always knows how to move the attacker, and clears crosses incredibly well.
 
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