ECNL Broken?

LASTMAN14 said:
Question-I’ve heard others make this statement before, but who do you think our best athletes are specifically? Curious on your thoughts.
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On the girls side it is closer than on the boys side, but I would say that the better all-around athletes are basketball players as an overall group.
 
happy9 said:
That's a great question and answers will very due to subjectivity. I personally think, in terms of being athletic, basketball players are the greatest athletes on the planet. There are plenty of players in the NFL who were collegiate basketball players (Antonio Gates, Julius Peppers, Jimmy Graham come to mind). I think it's a matter of opinion. Then there are the NBA players who were influenced by soccer - Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Kobe Bryant, Luca Doncic, Leandro Barbosa. I'm sure there are others. Maybe Messi played another sport, but I doubt it. Can you imagine Lebron James playing the 9 or the 4? He's an incredible athlete and likely could have played in the NFL.

The list is open to debate of course. Toughest athletes on the planet? --> Cyclist on the Pro Tour.

My point is that in the US, the athletic kids gravitate towards the sports on TV, the sport where they can idolize someone. Not too many kids in Milwaukee know who Michael Bradley, Jozy Altidore or Clint Dempsey are. There are some kids who do, but most kids haven't a clue.
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Oh boy... you opened up Pandora's box with this one :). As you say, it's subjective...however, IMHO, it is unquestionably pro hockey players. They are the most skilled athletes on the planet. The combination of skills, in terms of hand/eye, skating (alone) and physicality of the game put these people on top.
 
Dubs said:
Oh boy... you opened up Pandora's box with this one :). As you say, it's subjective...however, IMHO, it is unquestionably pro hockey players. They are the most skilled athletes on the planet. The combination of skills, in terms of hand/eye, skating (alone) and physicality of the game put these people on top.
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Hockey players are cool and have a unique skill. I won't argue that at all. I bet you Larry Bird played hockey and decided to play basketball..:)
 
happy9 said:
That's a great question and answers will very due to subjectivity. I personally think, in terms of being athletic, basketball players are the greatest athletes on the planet. There are plenty of players in the NFL who were collegiate basketball players (Antonio Gates, Julius Peppers, Jimmy Graham come to mind). I think it's a matter of opinion. Then there are the NBA players who were influenced by soccer - Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Kobe Bryant, Luca Doncic, Leandro Barbosa. I'm sure there are others. Maybe Messi played another sport, but I doubt it. Can you imagine Lebron James playing the 9 or the 4? He's an incredible athlete and likely could have played in the NFL.

The list is open to debate of course. Toughest athletes on the planet? --> Cyclist on the Pro Tour.

My point is that in the US, the athletic kids gravitate towards the sports on TV, the sport where they can idolize someone. Not too many kids in Milwaukee know who Michael Bradley, Jozy Altidore or Clint Dempsey are. There are some kids who do, but most kids haven't a clue.
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Very good response. And any answer is subjective. No doubt that’s true. The examples in the list of athletes was strong. And the mention of basketball in its own and as Dubs suggesting of hockey makes a strong case as well. I agree that these two sports may have the best well rounded athletes especially at the pro/int level. Do you think that most of those athletes based on purely their athletic aptitude (not training in a sport) and physical build (height, natural weight, etc) could actually play soccer at the highest level?
 
happy9 said:
That's a great question and answers will very due to subjectivity. I personally think, in terms of being athletic, basketball players are the greatest athletes on the planet. There are plenty of players in the NFL who were collegiate basketball players (Antonio Gates, Julius Peppers, Jimmy Graham come to mind). I think it's a matter of opinion. Then there are the NBA players who were influenced by soccer - Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Kobe Bryant, Luca Doncic, Leandro Barbosa. I'm sure there are others. Maybe Messi played another sport, but I doubt it. Can you imagine Lebron James playing the 9 or the 4? He's an incredible athlete and likely could have played in the NFL.

The list is open to debate of course. Toughest athletes on the planet? --> Cyclist on the Pro Tour.

My point is that in the US, the athletic kids gravitate towards the sports on TV, the sport where they can idolize someone. Not too many kids in Milwaukee know who Michael Bradley, Jozy Altidore or Clint Dempsey are. There are some kids who do, but most kids haven't a clue.
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I also think basketball players are the best athletes. However, IMO most NBA players would be too tall to excel in soccer since the ball is played close to the ground. Take away centerbacks and goalkeepers, I would guess the best soccer players in the world average 5'10", +- 2 inches.

The problem in the US, as you correctly pointed out, is that kids watch TV and most play basketball and football. But a majority of them can't make it to college or pro because they don't have the required size. Perhaps we can implement a draconian policy such that if your dad is <5'9" and your mom is <5'3", you can only participate in soccer but not basketball or football. If we could do that, US will be a powerhouse in soccer.
 
Messi>CR7 said:
I also think basketball players are the best athletes. However, IMO most NBA players would be too tall to excel in soccer since the ball is played close to the ground. Take away centerbacks and goalkeepers, I would guess the best soccer players in the world average 5'10", +- 2 inches.

The problem in the US, as you correctly pointed out, is that kids watch TV and most play basketball and football. But a majority of them can't make it to college or pro because they don't have the required size. Perhaps we can implement a draconian policy such that if your dad is <5'9" and your mom is <5'3", you can only participate in soccer but not basketball or football. If we could do that, US will be a powerhouse in soccer.
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I forgot to mention that in my response to H9 that I to and like you accept that the major pro sports here are a huge factor in attracting athletes despite their ability, skill, etc.
 
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Messi>CR7 said:
I also think basketball players are the best athletes. However, IMO most NBA players would be too tall to excel in soccer since the ball is played close to the ground. Take away centerbacks and goalkeepers, I would guess the best soccer players in the world average 5'10", +- 2 inches.

The problem in the US, as you correctly pointed out, is that kids watch TV and most play basketball and football. But a majority of them can't make it to college or pro because they don't have the required size. Perhaps we can implement a draconian policy such that if your dad is <5'9" and your mom is <5'3", you can only participate in soccer but not basketball or football. If we could do that, US will be a powerhouse in soccer.
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I'm down
 
LASTMAN14 said:
Very good response. And any answer is subjective. No doubt that’s true. The examples in the list of athletes was strong. And the mention of basketball in its own and as Dubs suggesting of hockey makes a strong case as well. I agree that these two sports may have the best well rounded athletes especially at the pro/int level. Do you think that most of those athletes based on purely their athletic aptitude (not training in a sport) and physical build (height, natural weight, etc) could actually play soccer at the highest level?
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That is a great question. Can a tall athlete be successful in high level soccer. Fascinating actually (don't ruin my weekend, I need to get ready for dinner!!)

Average Heights:
NBA Guards: 6'2-6'4"
MLB: 6'2
NFL CB : 5'11 (I picked corners since they have to be hyper athletic to defend speed and size)
NHL: 6"1
EPL: 5'11
La Liga: 5'10
Bundesliga: 6'0"
MLS: 5'9"

I could go on and on but you get my drift. I would say at the skill positions, the heights are pretty close. I really can't think of anyone having to be more athletic than an NFL corner back. Imagine having to defend Marquise Goodwin, who runs a 4.2 40. He's running at you and you are backpedaling, having to decide which way he's going to turn, then having to accelerate to close the gap or keep up.

An interesting note, the MLS homegrown players tend to be smaller overall. Again though, you don't have to be big to play soccer, and too big is a detriment.

Anyway, good discussion.
 
Pure athletes in terms of fitness, strength and singular hard core focus... Water Polo players and swimmers. Course, a lack of land coordination, and hand eye coordination probably eliminate them from “entertainment “ athletes.
 
happy9 said:
That is a great question. Can a tall athlete be successful in high level soccer. Fascinating actually (don't ruin my weekend, I need to get ready for dinner!!)

Average Heights:
NBA Guards: 6'2-6'4"
MLB: 6'2
NFL CB : 5'11 (I picked corners since they have to be hyper athletic to defend speed and size)
NHL: 6"1
EPL: 5'11
La Liga: 5'10
Bundesliga: 6'0"
MLS: 5'9"

I could go on and on but you get my drift. I would say at the skill positions, the heights are pretty close. I really can't think of anyone having to be more athletic than an NFL corner back. Imagine having to defend Marquise Goodwin, who runs a 4.2 40. He's running at you and you are backpedaling, having to decide which way he's going to turn, then having to accelerate to close the gap or keep up.

An interesting note, the MLS homegrown players tend to be smaller overall. Again though, you don't have to be big to play soccer, and too big is a detriment.

Anyway, good discussion.
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Agree on NFL cornerbacks
 
happy9 said:
That is a great question. Can a tall athlete be successful in high level soccer. Fascinating actually (don't ruin my weekend, I need to get ready for dinner!!)

Average Heights:
NBA Guards: 6'2-6'4"
MLB: 6'2
NFL CB : 5'11 (I picked corners since they have to be hyper athletic to defend speed and size)
NHL: 6"1
EPL: 5'11
La Liga: 5'10
Bundesliga: 6'0"
MLS: 5'9"

I could go on and on but you get my drift. I would say at the skill positions, the heights are pretty close. I really can't think of anyone having to be more athletic than an NFL corner back. Imagine having to defend Marquise Goodwin, who runs a 4.2 40. He's running at you and you are backpedaling, having to decide which way he's going to turn, then having to accelerate to close the gap or keep up.

An interesting note, the MLS homegrown players tend to be smaller overall. Again though, you don't have to be big to play soccer, and too big is a detriment.

Anyway, good discussion.
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Can I respond tomorrow. Friends over and I had wine.
 
happy9 said:
Our women's side is starting to migrate to Europe. The lure of the champions league is too much - Alex Morgan (Lyon), Tobin Heath (Man United), Rose Lavelle (Man City), Sam Mewis (Man city). This is just the beginning. Maybe they are moving out of the way of upcoming talent. This doesn't bode well for the NWSL. Their brand is tied to the WMNT. At some point, and if the dollars are there, our best women players will go direct to Europe, just like our men do and then what?
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This always happens after a WC/Olympic cycle (Carli Lloyd to City, Rapinoe to Lyon, etc...). USA Soccer pays the NWSL salaries for the USWNT and they have to be released to go abroad.

Who knows what happens in the next CBA, but NWSL attendance dwarfs WSL and they finally have a decent TV deal so I wouldn’t start throwing dirt on them yet...
 
SoccerLocker said:
This always happens after a WC/Olympic cycle (Carli Lloyd to City, Rapinoe to Lyon, etc...). USA Soccer pays the NWSL salaries for the USWNT and they have to be released to go abroad.

Who knows what happens in the next CBA, but NWSL attendance dwarfs WSL and they finally have a decent TV deal so I wouldn’t start throwing dirt on them yet...
Click to expand...
 
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Giesbock said:
Pure athletes in terms of fitness, strength and singular hard core focus... Water Polo players and swimmers. Course, a lack of land coordination, and hand eye coordination probably eliminate them from “entertainment “ athletes.
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I have not decided on my answer yet, however I will never forget when I found out Water Polo players were treading water the whole time... I was floored!! I was young and thought they were standing and playing ha-ha. (face palm)
@Kicker4Life @Giesbock
 
Way's to save and make cuts to pay for Club Soccer, by Soccerhelper

So life has been hard for a lot of us. I had no idea how I was going to afford and risk paying dues and all the travel and fees that come with ECNL. I sat down with my dd and wife ((my son is amazing and never spends money )). We sat around and tried to make cuts so goat can play and dad is not stressed out about this cost and that cost. So I cancelled cable ((no tv now and it's been awesome)), I cancelled this and that, and then my wife gave up this and then my dd gave up a monthly subscription and then I gave up some of my habits and saved some more. All in all, we shaved $417.50 a month. We did it. Oh ya, one more thing. I called two places threatening to cancel and they lowered my monthly from $79.75 down to $54.75 a month and $432 down to $395. Anything helps right now and it's a team effort. No more pressure and just something fun to do for 10 months :)

Next Soccerhelper advice will be how to save for retirement after you put soccer as top priority in your life!!!. I'm still learning a few more things and then I will share with all you :)

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SoccerLocker said:
This always happens after a WC/Olympic cycle (Carli Lloyd to City, Rapinoe to Lyon, etc...). USA Soccer pays the NWSL salaries for the USWNT and they have to be released to go abroad.

Who knows what happens in the next CBA, but NWSL attendance dwarfs WSL and they finally have a decent TV deal so I wouldn’t start throwing dirt on them yet...
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Agree that it always happens. I think the circumstances are different this time. There appears to be more money and more desire behind the efforts to make the women's leagues in Europe more important. The cash from European leagues dwarfs what the MLS dreams of achieving. It may peter out, it may not account for anything. To me, this time it's different. We will see. I want homegrown players to stay home.
 
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