D1 college soccer under threat

Copa9 said:
Seriously?? If you are of that mind set, then all athletic programs should be cut. Heck, we don't need any athletic programs professional or otherwise. I don't find many of the other sports to be entertaining. We don't "need" the NFL, AFL, NBA, NWSL, MLS, or any European football leagues, etc. etc. etc. to stay alive. There is no benefit to the public other than entertainment. Sure it provides a career for some, but then again, maybe they should focus on academics in college. We should only focus on things that keep us alive. Heck, we don't need the music industry, we don't need "entertainment" by musicians and singers. Let's all focus on education and people that keep us alive. If you don't find college soccer entertaining, that's fine. Don't watch. If you don't find this forum entertaining, don't read it.
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You have the right to choose the sports that you do and don’t like. I happen to like soccer. However, I was very disappointed with the level of play and entertainment factor. This doesn’t apply to all soccer but I don’t like college soccer. Sorry.
 
MacDre said:
You have the right to choose the sports that you do and don’t like. I happen to like soccer. However, I was very disappointed with the level of play and entertainment factor. This doesn’t apply to all soccer but I don’t like college soccer. Sorry.
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MacDre, you seem like a bright guy with some good insights, but your view on this issue is pretty cynical and self-centered. The fact that you only see benefit in those college sports that you find “entertaining” is missing the point. The value of those programs are much farther reaching than that. So few kids that play any sport in college go on to play professionally, so why is their continued development in college even a requirement?
 
dad4 said:
To be fair, club soccer as a college fund is a sucker’s bet.

If you don’t believe me, add up total soccer scholarship money per year for all schools. Then add up total club fees per year for all clubs. It’s not even close.

As for admissions, if your goal is getting into college and doing well there, hitting the books seems a lot more direct.
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I agree with you the fees, travel, training, etc. can pay for just about any school over the course of a youth career. I hope people are not placing bets that their kids soccer ability is going to pay off in a full ride.

Very few of the kids I know who have recently gone on are on full rides out of the gates, most are a combination of athletic and academic, or just academic. A lot of these talented kids are also great students and hit the books and are overall high-achievers ahead of the curve.

If you don’t want to pay the money, have your kid play rec or high school. If you live in an area that is underserved, it may be underserved for a variety of reasons. There is a reason people don’t want to live there. There are good places and bad places, some safe, some not. I know many families who I have worked with and currently work with that have moved to a better area to ensure better access to better schools. There are choices.

As others have said, life is not fair. It’s not an even playing field, some people get dealt bad cards, some people get lucky, some people work hard and some people are lazy. Some people are smart and some not so much. Some people take risks and advantage of opportunities, and some play it safe and won’t take a chance. It’s not even and expecting it to be equal is a fallacy. If I make $100k and somebody else makes $50k should I give them $25k so it is fair and we both have $75k.

There was professor I heard about who was discussing socialism with the class and gave a similar example with the students....one received an A the other a C, and the professor told them they would both get B’s. The A student was pissed, they studied, put in the work and was prepared, the C student was happy, because they got more than they earned.

Score is kept here on variety of levels. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. We don’t all get ribbons for 9th place. People also confuse effort and results. Just because you work hard does not mean you receive the same as the individual who gets results.

People want the level playing field as long as it is not their money. Are you willing to give up 25%, 30% or more of your income to “level” the playing field?

As I’m sure many of you do, we volunteer, and donate to causes we believe it. We could probably do more if I am being completely honest.

If kids want to go to school they can. Not everyone needs to start at a 4 year university. JC is a great, lower cost option to get started, complete general ed’s and many of the JC’s have amazing programs with direct pipelines to major universities. If young adults (18+) really want a college education they can get it.
 
MacDre said:
I think I’d be okay if college soccer disappeared forever because I do not see the benefit. The games are not entertaining. The style of play is not good for development. Most people on this forum openly admit that it’s about the university and not soccer so, those folks can play club soccer in college and focus on academics.
Also, MLS/NWSL would be forced to figure out a better development pathway for kids who’s priority is soccer if college soccer goes away. Could someone please tell why loosing college soccer is a bad thing? Are people just scared of change?
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College sports are a big part of American culture. Removing sports from college, in general, will require a major shift in thinking. Also, if you look at baseball, you can see an amateur path and a college path side by side and the colleges still produce major league players. I won't argue that if we could go back in time and set up our system for colleges and for sports from scratch, we would end up in the same place. But, it's a lot to untangle and I don't see a serious motivation to do it. As for the development of the "elite" players, I believe as long as there is any opportunity to play, those capable of becoming elite will generally get there as their passion and desire to play the game will drive how they invest their time.
 
Back to the topic at hand, I’d guess w soccer would be one of the last sports to be cut. Budgets shrink, yes, travel and gear and stuff reduced, yes. But w soccer represents the highest played youth sport in America, and is growing in popularity.
I’m not in favor of cutting any sports and actually think the government should step in and subsidize the ncaa (if we are going to bail out hotels and airlines why not the ncaa)...that’s how much value I think is in college sports.
But w soccer in college has a great infrastructure, where sports like w lacrosse, rowing, field hockey, rifling etc aren’t as robust or widely offered. Even men’s soccer is dicey with haphazard conferences.

I’d guess w soccer is relatively safe at this point, but if football doesn’t happen or men’s bball is delayed or cancelled then all bets are off.
 
SBFDad said:
MacDre, you seem like a bright guy with some good insights, but your view on this issue is pretty cynical and self-centered. The fact that you only see benefit in those college sports that you find “entertaining” is missing the point. The value of those programs are much farther reaching than that. So few kids that play any sport in college go on to play professionally, so why is their continued development in college even a requirement?
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Thanks for your input. I’m not cynical or self-centered but my views are colored by my personal experience. I have never met a young basketball or football player from my hood that doesn’t want to go pro. I guess in the hood we separate the scholars from the athletes fairly early.
Could you explain why club sports aren’t adequate for those that have no chance of turning pro? Be gentle, I’m learning bro.
To be clear, I’m only talking about soccer because I think there’s de facto segregation starting in the youth game.
 
If I’m an AD I’m keeping at a minimum:
Football
Men’s and women’s bball
Women’s soccer
Baseball
Softball

next tier
W volleyball
Track
Tennis men’s and womens
Golf men’s and womens

next tier
Swimming


and the news about cal st Fullerton is that they are preparing to go online. No decision is even close to make that call. They have start thinking what fully online would mean. Just like all schools are preparing. Just in case.
 
Woobie06 said:
I agree with you the fees, travel, training, etc. can pay for just about any school over the course of a youth career. I hope people are not placing bets that their kids soccer ability is going to pay off in a full ride.

Very few of the kids I know who have recently gone on are on full rides out of the gates, most are a combination of athletic and academic, or just academic. A lot of these talented kids are also great students and hit the books and are overall high-achievers ahead of the curve.

If you don’t want to pay the money, have your kid play rec or high school. If you live in an area that is underserved, it may be underserved for a variety of reasons. There is a reason people don’t want to live there. There are good places and bad places, some safe, some not. I know many families who I have worked with and currently work with that have moved to a better area to ensure better access to better schools. There are choices.

As others have said, life is not fair. It’s not an even playing field, some people get dealt bad cards, some people get lucky, some people work hard and some people are lazy. Some people are smart and some not so much. Some people take risks and advantage of opportunities, and some play it safe and won’t take a chance. It’s not even and expecting it to be equal is a fallacy. If I make $100k and somebody else makes $50k should I give them $25k so it is fair and we both have $75k.

There was professor I heard about who was discussing socialism with the class and gave a similar example with the students....one received an A the other a C, and the professor told them they would both get B’s. The A student was pissed, they studied, put in the work and was prepared, the C student was happy, because they got more than they earned.

Score is kept here on variety of levels. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. We don’t all get ribbons for 9th place. People also confuse effort and results. Just because you work hard does not mean you receive the same as the individual who gets results.

People want the level playing field as long as it is not their money. Are you willing to give up 25%, 30% or more of your income to “level” the playing field?

As I’m sure many of you do, we volunteer, and donate to causes we believe it. We could probably do more if I am being completely honest.

If kids want to go to school they can. Not everyone needs to start at a 4 year university. JC is a great, lower cost option to get started, complete general ed’s and many of the JC’s have amazing programs with direct pipelines to major universities. If young adults (18+) really want a college education they can get it.
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Wow. De facto segregation. White flight. Environmental racism. War on drugs.

I have no problem getting the scholars from my hood into Middle College HS and into Stanford and the Ivies. I just see a lot of disturbing issues in soccer. I guess it is what it is.
 
MacDre said:
That’s goes to the part of neglected communities and underfunded schools. But take me for example. I had a young drug addicted mother and no father. I grew up in the midst of the North Richmond Project Trojans. I did well enough in college because of the support of the McNair Scholars program. By time I graduated from UCD my research was being used to overturn 3 strikes legislation.
I went to Hastings and Na’il Benjamin was my roommate. Hannibal and Marshawn are intelligent too. Lot’s of smart folks in the hood that just need support.
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full90 said:
If I’m an AD I’m keeping at a minimum:
Football
Men’s and women’s bball
Women’s soccer
Baseball
Softball

next tier
W volleyball
Track
Tennis men’s and womens
Golf men’s and womens

next tier
Swimming


and the news about cal st Fullerton is that they are preparing to go online. No decision is even close to make that call. They have start thinking what fully online would mean. Just like all schools are preparing. Just in case.
Click to expand...

Registration is coming up and they have sent out notices to students that on-line for fall is a possibility according to a few we know that go there.

The Finances of UC and Cal State systems are not looking good right now and even though I signed the petition realistically they will have to cut some programs;

From what article:

"Continuing remote learning will have significant ramifications on university finances, and possibly enrollment, if students balk at paying tuition and fees — about $6,900 annually at Fullerton for California residents — without a full campus experience and decide to take a gap year or attend community college instead.

Campuses already have reported staggering revenue hits from canceled housing and dining contracts, along with increased costs of technology for online learning and deep facilities cleaning.

California State University estimates its lost monthly revenue at about $100 million from student housing, dining, parking and other operations, Uhlenkamp said. Increased costs for technology and health and sanitation supplies will probably increase further, he said.

University of California President Janet Napolitano recently disclosed that campuses have been hit with $310 million in unexpected costs — about 40% of the system’s $775 million monthly revenues in a $9.3-billion core budget."
 
Woobie06 said:
I agree with you the fees, travel, training, etc. can pay for just about any school over the course of a youth career. I hope people are not placing bets that their kids soccer ability is going to pay off in a full ride.

Very few of the kids I know who have recently gone on are on full rides out of the gates, most are a combination of athletic and academic, or just academic. A lot of these talented kids are also great students and hit the books and are overall high-achievers ahead of the curve.

If you don’t want to pay the money, have your kid play rec or high school. If you live in an area that is underserved, it may be underserved for a variety of reasons. There is a reason people don’t want to live there. There are good places and bad places, some safe, some not. I know many families who I have worked with and currently work with that have moved to a better area to ensure better access to better schools. There are choices.

As others have said, life is not fair. It’s not an even playing field, some people get dealt bad cards, some people get lucky, some people work hard and some people are lazy. Some people are smart and some not so much. Some people take risks and advantage of opportunities, and some play it safe and won’t take a chance. It’s not even and expecting it to be equal is a fallacy. If I make $100k and somebody else makes $50k should I give them $25k so it is fair and we both have $75k.

There was professor I heard about who was discussing socialism with the class and gave a similar example with the students....one received an A the other a C, and the professor told them they would both get B’s. The A student was pissed, they studied, put in the work and was prepared, the C student was happy, because they got more than they earned.

Score is kept here on variety of levels. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. We don’t all get ribbons for 9th place. People also confuse effort and results. Just because you work hard does not mean you receive the same as the individual who gets results.

People want the level playing field as long as it is not their money. Are you willing to give up 25%, 30% or more of your income to “level” the playing field?

As I’m sure many of you do, we volunteer, and donate to causes we believe it. We could probably do more if I am being completely honest.

If kids want to go to school they can. Not everyone needs to start at a 4 year university. JC is a great, lower cost option to get started, complete general ed’s and many of the JC’s have amazing programs with direct pipelines to major universities. If young adults (18+) really want a college education they can get it.
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and some people cheat!!!
 
"That’s goes to the part of neglected communities and underfunded schools. But take me for example. I had a young drug addicted mother and no father."

A drug addicted mother and no father. So is the system neglected and underfunded or would you agree it's fair to say there are consequences for actions? If my situation was the same as yours, I probably wouldn't have made it so I certainly tip my cap to your achievements... not sure I would have been able to say the same. My parents both worked in high school and put themselves through college. They didn't do drugs or disappear... they worked the entire time... like I did. Your situation is a direct consequence of your parent's actions. But the fact is that your story is probably more common in the black communities than any other. Would you agree? And if that's true, would you say it's everyone else's fault? That standards for admission should be lowered? That there's some nationwide problem with black kids not getting the same opportunities? Or would you say black fathers need to stick around more and drugs need to not be so prevalent? Poverty and lack of opportunity is the same no matter what your ethnicity is. No?
 
MacDre said:
Please elaborate.
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There are lawsuits against ivy league schools for accepting lower SAT or GPA scores for certain minority groups as opposed to others. And I think its a well known fact that some students get in to schools based on their athletic ability and not by their academic merit.
 
The Outlaw said:
"That’s goes to the part of neglected communities and underfunded schools. But take me for example. I had a young drug addicted mother and no father."

A drug addicted mother and no father. So is the system neglected and underfunded or would you agree it's fair to say there are consequences for actions? If my situation was the same as yours, I probably wouldn't have made it so I certainly tip my cap to your achievements... not sure I would have been able to say the same. My parents both worked in high school and put themselves through college. They didn't do drugs or disappear... they worked the entire time... like I did. Your situation is a direct consequence of your parent's actions. But the fact is that your story is probably more common in the black communities than any other. Would you agree? And if that's true, would you say it's everyone else's fault? That standards for admission should be lowered? That there's some nationwide problem with black kids not getting the same opportunities? Or would you say black fathers need to stick around more and drugs need to not be so prevalent? Poverty and lack of opportunity is the same no matter what your ethnicity is. No?
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I’d disagree knowing the systematic racism that has existed for decades preventing specifically black people from access to education, job opportunity and upward mobility. As a society we can’t deny entire groups of people access to improve their station in life and then turn around and say “you should just work harder.”
We have to systematically fix the systematic wrongs that were done. It’s an awful knot to untangle but steps have to be taken.
 
The Outlaw said:
"That’s goes to the part of neglected communities and underfunded schools. But take me for example. I had a young drug addicted mother and no father."

A drug addicted mother and no father. So is the system neglected and underfunded or would you agree it's fair to say there are consequences for actions? If my situation was the same as yours, I probably wouldn't have made it so I certainly tip my cap to your achievements... not sure I would have been able to say the same. My parents both worked in high school and put themselves through college. They didn't do drugs or disappear... they worked the entire time... like I did. Your situation is a direct consequence of your parent's actions. But the fact is that your story is probably more common in the black communities than any other. Would you agree? And if that's true, would you say it's everyone else's fault? That standards for admission should be lowered? That there's some nationwide problem with black kids not getting the same opportunities? Or would you say black fathers need to stick around more and drugs need to not be so prevalent? Poverty and lack of opportunity is the same no matter what your ethnicity is. No?
Click to expand...
I advocate for all poor kids. In terms of the blacks I guess they are just ignorant and lazy and always looking for handouts. Thanks for showing me the reality of things.
 
full90 said:
I’d disagree knowing the systematic racism that has existed for decades preventing specifically black people from access to education, job opportunity and upward mobility. As a society we can’t deny entire groups of people access to improve their station in life and then turn around and say “you should just work harder.”
We have to systematically fix the systematic wrongs that were done. It’s an awful knot to untangle but steps have to be taken.
Click to expand...

What systematic racism exists today that prevents black people from the same opportunities? Can you give me a few examples? Because I see a whole bunch of African American people becoming really successful, with little or no means, and I'm not just talking about drug dealing rappers that become "producers".
 
full90 said:
If I’m an AD I’m keeping at a minimum:
Football
Men’s and women’s bball
Women’s soccer
Baseball
Softball

next tier
W volleyball
Track
Tennis men’s and womens
Golf men’s and womens

next tier
Swimming


and the news about cal st Fullerton is that they are preparing to go online. No decision is even close to make that call. They have start thinking what fully online would mean. Just like all schools are preparing. Just in case.
Click to expand...
Once you count the money spent on better and better facilities, there aren’t many schools that actually make a profit on football. That’s just a myth to justify a 2 million dollar coach’s salary.

At most schools, I’d save club and intramurals first. Drop all out of region travel other than national tournaments. That way, you help out far more participants per dollar spent.
full90 said:
If I’m an AD I’m keeping at a minimum:
Football
Men’s and women’s bball
Women’s soccer
Baseball
Softball

next tier
W volleyball
Track
Tennis men’s and womens
Golf men’s and womens

next tier
Swimming


and the news about cal st Fullerton is that they are preparing to go online. No decision is even close to make that call. They have start thinking what fully online would mean. Just like all schools are preparing. Just in case.
Click to expand...

Why keep the biggest, most expensive sports? Once you count the facility upgrades, there are very few schools that actually make money on Football.

For most schools, keep club and intra mural sports. When you do keep varsity, focus on the sports with lower costs. Less money spent per athlete is just another way to say more athletes kept per dollar.
 
MacDre said:
I advocate for all poor kids. In terms of the blacks I guess they are just ignorant and lazy and always looking for handouts. Thanks for showing me the reality of things.
Click to expand...

That's cop out statement. How about we get away from the victimhood and look at facts and statistics. You just told me you had every reason to fail and didn't. Why? Because you valued education and hard work? You respected rules and authority figures? You didn't make stupid choices or walk around blaming everyone else for your hurdles? How refreshing.
 
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