Bruddah IZ
DA
You know what Dad4 has also left out? Virus behavior. Why is that?
Bad News Thread
- Thread starter kickingandscreaming
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Bruddah IZ
DA
False. Stick to stats.
Yah...because data doesn’t think for itself or argue when it’s mistreated/misused.Data is often better company.
Bruddah IZ
DA
Mic drop.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
They should have issued an advisory. I think that would have been reasonable enough. You do realize that many more will die because of the pause - assuming you believe that the vaccines save lives - and I do.
Discussing solutions?
No you haven't. The past year you have been outright dismissive of every single proposal for things we can do to reduce the severity of the pandemic.
Masks? Don't help much.
Close high risk places? It's an unsustainable lockdown.
Socialize outside instead of inside? Well, I haven't heard of anywhere that has done it.
Vaccines? I heard somewhere that the side effects are awful.
Every single proposal for a way to help, you've found some excuse to be on the other side. You can't suddenly undo all that and say you've been looking for solutions. You've been opposing solutions the whole time.
In regards to Fauci, I was the last one to jump on the "Fauci is an idiot" bandwagon as Grace can attest to. At the beginning I was a fan but at some point he completely jumped the shark. His mixed messaging and constant agreement with whomever was interviewing him was irresponsible. Combine that with Trump and Biden's mixed messaging and you have a federal response, other than Operation Warpspeed, that fell woefully short. The federal government kept getting in its own way and the way of States rights to govern.Data is often better company.
It more bugs me that so many of us don’t even seem to care enough to try. We can look at the world, understand that covid is a problem, but then completely fall short on even attempting to do our part. All kinds of completely lame rationalizations come out. It’s easier to lie to ourselves than actually change our behavior.
So we talk about how bad Fauci is. Why? Is he actually evil? Is he deliberately trying to mislead us about a matter of national importance? No, but he tells us things we don’t want to hear. So we find a way to disbelieve. After all, if we believed that restaurants were killing people, we’d have to stop going.
So we tell ourselves a story about how masks don’t work and restaurants don’t spread covid. It’s a lie. But, if we believe it, we can do what we want and not feel guilty. So we do.
Now what I'm about to say has been said ad nauseum in many ways but here goes again. Your definition of "care" is incredibly narrow. Caring goes way beyond not spreading the virus. Also who has not cared enough to try? Your definition of "caring" is to have citizens hide from the virus. Based upon their comments, I believe everyone on "team virus" (per you) or "team reality" (per Grace) has tried, in some cases to a great extent. The lengths our company has gone to to protect our employees from Covid is extensive. But our caring didn't stop at Covid. We also continued to pay our employees 100% despite the fact in a lot of cases they were only working 50%. We had the luxury to do so, but most small businesses, which should have never been shutdown, didn't; despite the fact they were willing to adjust and make major innovative changes to operate safer. Now those same small businesses can't get there employees back because our government continues to incentivize them not to go back to work. We're creating another generation of citizens dependent on the government.
Your perspective is shaped by the fact your livelihood is dependent on the government. You have little to no risk. Your checks kept coming whether you worked or not. It's virtually impossible for a teacher to get fired in California. You and Fauci live in an academic bubble, where you can control variables and math always has a correct answer. You also don't have to worry about providing for any employees. Small business and its employees have no such luxury. In fact, government is the biggest obstacle to small business. Not only do owners lose their income if the government shuts down their business, but most owners feel a strong financial responsibility to their employees. You can hide from the virus, because the government allows you to do so. Most people can not, try standing in their shoes, instead of blaming them for spreading the virus.
On its face, the left's desire to provide a safety net is virtuous; however, its incredibly misguided. It is destroying our "pioneer spirit", right to self determination and our self reliance which are principles that our Country was founded on. It is also destroying the "risk vs. return" equation. America has a lot of warts, but it still should be the "Land of Opportunity" not the "Land of Guaranteed Basic Income".
Desert Hound
DA
Proposals need to be actually effective.
Masks don't work when worn properly. Watching how people actually use masks makes the hope that they can moderate anything laughable.
Close high risk places? You cannot stop people from making a living. And that is why outside of a couple week shutdown this idea is laughable.
Socialize outside instead of inside? If you want to hang out on your lawn so be it. But what you refer to again is biz, school, etc. The vast vast majority of places to actually run require people inside. Stores, restaurants, schools, you name it.
Vaccines? Perfect. We have those now. Lets move on rather shortly. The vast VAST majority of people who died are rather old and most already were heading to the exit so to speak. Now 80% or so of these people are vaccinated and presumably when the need for boosters come up...will vaccinate at the same rate. The other age groups? Many are getting vaccinated BUT in the high risk groups in the younger age groups they are getting vaccinated at a high rate.
What does that add up to? Covid deaths will fall dramatically. We can stop playing safety theater and move on with our lives.
If we pretend or listen to those who want to try to get the virus to go away altogether or get down to zero deaths, we are going to be stuck in the twilight zone forever.
With the vaccines, deaths will fall into the range of a bad flu year. You know the stuff we have lived through off and on for decades without so much as batting an eye.
Desert Hound
DA
Err....again you jump to the worst conclusions. You are right I don't think masks help much....I just think we need to be honest with folks about their impact. Same with the vaccines. I haven't said don't get one....but I believe people are adults and need to make their own well informed choices.
I've told you also repeatedly what my preferred policy solution would have been, which is much more than you've been willing to do. I would have shut the border earlier and much more robustly than Trump and much more greatly restricted airtravel. I think indoor mask mandates were the right thing to do, and I would have had a mask production program, but also would have exempted children 10 and under and the severely handicapped and would have been honest about what they did. I would have restricted the use of lockdowns only to the beginning of surges, and then gone more robustly than California did, as well as over the summer 2020 built surge capacity to the extent possible. I wouldn't have shut schools or outdoor sports except paused them during the worst of the peaks. I would have harden the nursing homes. I'd probably do a lottery with cash prize to encourage vaccination. I would have fired Fauci. Essentially, I would have done Florida lite.
I've been talking policy, you've been talking morality, which is why we talk past each other. Funny I can see that and you can't.
p.s. you know where my prescribed policy solutions most closely align (except for the border part)...Germany!.....hah the nation you touted at the beginning and then tut tutted for opening indoor dining.
Hüsker Dü
DA
And those people say it’s bs.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
So much virtue signaling going on. In SC County, we have to fill out a questionnaire every morning before attending training or games with questions related to potential COVID exposure or general illness. How much good these things actually do? I'd guess about as much as wearing a mask while out for a walk, but someone feels good about it or it wouldn't be done.
There is no dead horse for a preacher. There's only our souls and the need to avoid the hellfire.
Until recently, I didn't understand that's what was happening here (others are probably quicker than me on interpersonal dynamics). Today it's been confirmed.
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knowyourmeme.com
We have to fill out the forms before every school day and every practice day, too.
I don’t see it as virtue signaling. It’s just reminding ourselves that we should not go near others if we are feeling not quite well. I’ve found it pointless about 100 times, and useful once. I think that means it worked as designed.
So, you support indoor mask mandates, yet you make no less than 50 posts about how masks and mask mandates don’t work?
Pro tip for advocates: if you support a policy, don’t spend lots of time convincing people it won’t work.
That's not true.
Ah, but there's where you misunderstand me. Just as I misunderstood that you weren't really a policy advocate, you were a preacher talking about morality, you mistake me for an advocate. I'm not an advocate. I'm a truth seeker because the truth is what interests me, not policy, and especially not morality. My only advocacy has been that people should swallow the red pill and face the reality rather than live in ignorance in the blue pill, because that's what Enlightenment though (which is the highest achievement in human thought processes) has taught us.
So yes, I believe in an indoor mask mandate, subject to the Constitutional right of the states to determine it, subject to the exclusions I listed above, and with the caveat that the government should tell people how much masks really can achieve (rather than lull than into a false sense of security)....treat em like adults, not children.
Only a bureaucrat would think that was an effective policy.