San Diego - forfeiting HS games due to club participation?

S

SDMama

SILVER ELITE
Can someone please explain the rules for players being eligible or ineligible to play HS games if they also (1) practiced with their club team and/or (2) played in a game with their club team during the HS season?

(Do HS teams have to forfeit games if they have a player who practices with a club team during HS season? Do those rules only apply to varsity? And how do those forfeits affect standings and rankings?)
 
SDMama said:
Can someone please explain the rules for players being eligible or ineligible to play HS games if they also (1) practiced with their club team and/or (2) played in a game with their club team during the HS season?

(Do HS teams have to forfeit games if they have a player who practices with a club team during HS season? Do those rules only apply to varsity? And how do those forfeits affect standings and rankings?)
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From San Diego Section Green Book --

cifsds_green_book_2022-2023.pdf

Read it carefully. There are restrictions on college ID camps and exemptions for ODP and similar programs.

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espola said:
From San Diego Section Green Book --

cifsds_green_book_2022-2023.pdf

Read it carefully. There are restrictions on college ID camps and exemptions for ODP and similar programs.

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Thanks for posting those details. I hadn’t seen the 600.1 -c- rule before (or maybe I just didn’t pay attention to it before).
So now my question is, if the player didn’t -compete- with an “outside team” but practiced with one, what is the penalty? Is a practice equal to a “contest”? So, if a player attended 2 practices, then that player is ineligible for 4 games? (And if played, the HS team would have to forfeit those 4 games?)
 
SDMama said:
Thanks for posting those details. I hadn’t seen the 600.1 -c- rule before (or maybe I just didn’t pay attention to it before).
So now my question is, if the player didn’t -compete- with an “outside team” but practiced with one, what is the penalty? Is a practice equal to a “contest”? So, if a player attended 2 practices, then that player is ineligible for 4 games? (And if played, the HS team would have to forfeit those 4 games?)
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The only detail I experienced was a player who attended a college ID camp, and then sat out 2 games voluntarily as "punishment", but that was years ago. The severity and the enforcement of these rules waxes and wanes over time, and some forfeits have been overturned in lawsuits. so who knows?
 
espola said:
The severity and the enforcement of these rules waxes and wanes over time, and some forfeits have been overturned in lawsuits. so who knows?
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Lawsuits to overturn forfeits??? What could have been at stake for a school to bring a lawsuit to overturn a forfeit? Home field advantage in post season? Do schools make a lot of money off post season tickets?
 
CIF's Bylaw 600 covers "outside competition" - individual sections can be more restrictive but, at the baseline applicable to all schools and students, if a kid participates in an "outside competition" during the HS season, he/she must sit out 2 games for every game played (the state construes games to include scrimmages - if a kid attends a YNT camp and they scrimmage a club team, that would count. Arguably, even an 11v11 scrimmage w/camp attendees would count). If you fail to sit out those games OR the competitions are not "approved", then the HS risks forfeiting games. There are ways for competitions to be approved - there is an administrative process and if that is followed precisely, a player CAN play in an outside competition. As has been mentioned, ODP is one that is often permitted b/c of that process (in my older daughter's Sr year, she played with the U18s in a tournament in Florida (right before Covid shut things down) and she was able to return to the HS team and immediately play).

Up here in Northern California, there was a situation about 10 years ago involving Palo Alto HS and the younger sister of a noteworthy MLB player who has played down your way and currently plays up here (and, in fact, that soccer player played her college soccer in the Southland). Everyone thought that the process had been followed but if memory serves, US Soccer missed the deadline by a day or so and when CCS (Paly's section) learned of this, Paly was DQ'd from CCS playoffs and had other games forfeited retroactively (for what that was worth).

California Interscholastic Federation (cifstate.org) (note: I went through this A LOT with CIF and with my daughter's section and unless something has changed, note that they take a very restrictive view of these rules so you may read them and think, "oh, of course THAT would be OK" but unless you have someone with authority saying the same thing, there is some risk involved. That said, I also found the CIF administrator tasked with soccer (Fahey) to be responsive)
 
SDMama said:
Thanks for posting those details. I hadn’t seen the 600.1 -c- rule before (or maybe I just didn’t pay attention to it before).
So now my question is, if the player didn’t -compete- with an “outside team” but practiced with one, what is the penalty? Is a practice equal to a “contest”? So, if a player attended 2 practices, then that player is ineligible for 4 games? (And if played, the HS team would have to forfeit those 4 games?)
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That's the way I understand the rule as it is written. Also, that is the way it was explained to me by the club coaches last year when 2/3 of the team was in Highschool, and 1/3 was still in Middle School. Which is a significant reason why the age cutoff should align with Grade Year.
 
Code said:
That's the way I understand the rule as it is written. Also, that is the way it was explained to me by the club coaches last year when 2/3 of the team was in Highschool, and 1/3 was still in Middle School. Which is a significant reason why the age cutoff should align with Grade Year.
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It's rare for a Freshman player to be playing on Varsity, so no one cares if they are eligible anyway.
 
espola said:
It's rare for a Freshman player to be playing on Varsity, so no one cares if they are eligible anyway.
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I didn't know the greenbook only applied to the Varsity players. Learn something new everyday I guess.
 
espola said:
It's rare for a Freshman player to be playing on Varsity, so no one cares if they are eligible anyway.
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Roosevelt (Eastvale) Freshman leads the team with 27 goals. Team just beat Santiago High to give them their first loss this season.
 
socalkdg said:
Roosevelt (Eastvale) Freshman leads the team with 27 goals. Team just beat Santiago High to give them their first loss this season.
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Guess Santiago players will be sitting out a few games because of those scrimmages at YNT camp During the Roosevelt game. Ya, right…
 
Just saw a news story on NBC talking about a player that participated in the SD Wave FC camp which resulted in her being told she was therefore ineligible and couldn’t play the rest of her HS season. Sounds like the news team got involved and got CIF to overturn their decision and now she can play. Said more info at 6 PM….
 
Reminder: Bylaw 600.1 Attendance at College ID camps in all sports
1. With CIFSDS prior approval, student-athletes are permitted to attend two college ID camps in any given season of sport. Attendance at any camp beyond two ID camps is a violation and would result in the penalties described in 601.A. 2. A College ID camp is defined as a sport specific camp, held on a college campus under the direction of a college coach. 3. Student athletes must receive permission from the site sport head coach and the Athletic Director/Administrator prior to attending the ID camp. ID camp participation form must be completed, signed and approved by CIFSDS prior to a student attending. Participation in an ID camp without prior approval would result in the penalties described in 601.A. 4. Camp flier or link to camp website must be forwarded to the CIFSDS office along with completed ID camp participation form. 5. The section office will list approved college ID camps on the CIFSDS web site for reference purposes. (Approved Board of Managers)
 
espola said:
From San Diego Section Green Book --

cifsds_green_book_2022-2023.pdf

Read it carefully. There are restrictions on college ID camps and exemptions for ODP and similar programs.

View attachment 15532

View attachment 15531

View attachment 15530
Click to expand...

FWIW LA City Section allows it:

Q: Is attendance by an individual student-athlete at a non-school practice, camp or clinic considered participation on an outside team if during that sport’s season of sport?
A: No. Individual student-athletes may attend a non-school practice, camp or clinic during that sport’s season of sport (unless your school and/or CIF Section has developed a more restrictive rule).
Q: May an individual student-athlete compete in a scrimmage or game while attending a non-school practice, camp or clinic during that sport’s season of sport?
A: Yes, as long as they are attending that camp as an individual (unless your school and/or CIF Section has
developed a more restrictive rule).

 
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