WWC 2023

[kickingandscreaming]

Back when I was in high school, the Vermont State HS Soccer Championship Final one year was 0-0 at the end of full time, and the rules in place at that time gave the win to the team that had taken the most corner kicks.

Sweden vs. United States Highlights | 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup | Round of 16 | FOX Sports

Sweden and the United States played against each other as both teams looked to make another appearance in the quarterfinals. Check out the top moments and highlights of this 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup match!

www.foxsports.com

I'd still take this over the PKs.

 

[Grace T.]

@Grace T. I think a lot of us are having "I told you so" moments right about now. I thought we were a few more years out from seeing it happen, so this is a bit of a surprise.

@Carlsbad7 I just don't see an academy system working, I mean is it really working on the boys side? I suspect we will see more and more US players trying to play in Europe like we do on the mens side. Eventually women's college rosters will look just like the mens side, 50% players from other countries. I think the core issue is we don't have a soccer culture...we have a soccer business. Until there's futsal courts all over the place and kids are playing pickup hours on end, we're always going to have to grind.

On the boys side it is absolutely working. And by academy I’m talking about the mls academies (not the next teams) and a handful of residential academies and clubs (like strikers/img). They on the u19 sides are absolutely producing teams that compete (and win) with the European academies.

where the disconnect is on the men’s side is the ability to transition from academy to pro side. It’s complicated because it includes factors like the low mls salaries, the us obsession with college, a reluctance by the mls teams to give opportunities, the selection process, competition from central and Caribbean America etc. you are correct the solution has been play in Europe. I agree with your predictions on what the women will do and what college will look like but without an academy system for the women, lots of talent will just go unnoticed putting us at the same permanent disadvantage as the men.

crush is right. The us needs to start drawing distinctions on the women’s side between goats and unicorns.Ecnl as currently constituted has goats unicorns and the very good.

 

[Keeperkat]

Sweden 0-0 (5-4) USA

Back when I was in high school, the Vermont State HS Soccer Championship Final one year was 0-0 at the end of full time, and the rules in place at that time gave the win to the team that had taken the most corner kicks. Under that rule, USA would have won 9-3.

I think Sweden will have a hard time with some of the quick and creative teams I have seen in the tournament unless their keeper continues her miracles.

Sweden vs. United States Highlights | 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup | Round of 16 | FOX Sports

Sweden and the United States played against each other as both teams looked to make another appearance in the quarterfinals. Check out the top moments and highlights of this 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup match!

www.foxsports.com

The shots the Sweden keeper saved were hard but what I found interesting is all but 1 were basically straight at her with none hitting top corner, right under the bar, hard grounders in corner or otherwise, or challenging 1v1s or close range slams.

 

[Grace T.]

On the boys side it is absolutely working. And by academy I’m talking about the mls academies (not the next teams) and a handful of residential academies and clubs (like strikers/img). They on the u19 sides are absolutely producing teams that compete (and win) with the European academies.

where the disconnect is on the men’s side is the ability to transition from academy to pro side. It’s complicated because it includes factors like the low mls salaries, the us obsession with college, a reluctance by the mls teams to give opportunities, the selection process, competition from central and Caribbean America etc. you are correct the solution has been play in Europe. I agree with your predictions on what the women will do and what college will look like but without an academy system for the women, lots of talent will just go unnoticed putting us at the same permanent disadvantage as the men.

Sweden has a really strong CB as well as keeper

I wouldn’t be surprised if they were able to grind out a couple more wins

XG was 1.8 for US , .1 for Sweden

Girma really starting to cement herself as one of the best CBs in the world ( if you are looking for positives )

Kinda surprised he didn’t have Kornieak on this roster, given her ability in the air

oh well, onto to the Olympics next summer

I agree the Swedish goalkeeper was amazing. But that’s more a statement on the poor state of women’s goalkeeping than anything else. A keeper shouldn’t be able to win you the match especially on the women’s or younger men’s side. The reality is because of their height and physical limitations, the women can’t cover the goal. A goat striker should always be able to find the zone that the goalkeeper cannot cover. If they don’t that’s on the striker for falling short. It’s why goalkeeping is so tough when you transition to 11v11….you just kick it over the boys head and unless the keeper is a very early bloomer you can’t do it anymore. It’s why some boys teams begin to struggle at u14 and u15. The boys suddenly become taller and competent. You can’t hit it over them anymore and coaches that have taught strikers to win this way are suddenly surprised they can’t win that way anymore. On the men’s side you either have to hit it top or bottom corners or through some creative play like 1v1s, cutbacks or corners.

 

[paytoplay]

This was predicted. Leading into this I didn’t see the young stars emerging. I don’t see it in Rodman, Williams or Smith. And the veterans should have been put out to pasture. Alex Morgan was washed at the last WC. But US won’t make any changes, won’t learn, won’t fire loser coaches. Look at the men, going back to another failed coach. And the pay to play club pathway will remain the same—no meritocracy, special access for the rich moms and dads.

 

[Zoro]

The shots the Sweden keeper saved were hard but what I found interesting is all but 1 were basically straight at her with none hitting top corner, right under the bar, hard grounders in corner or otherwise, or challenging 1v1s or close range slams.

The keepers job is to be where the shots will go. Better, to keep them from happening at all by directing her defense.

The USA missed the frame 3X because they felt the keeper knew where their shots were going. (Obviously I don't KNOW what was in their minds - seems reasonable to me.)
I doubt they would have missed 3 without that keeper in the goal.
I don't particularly like a "save" to require it be on frame - esp. in the PKs where the keeper has a lot of affect on where that ball is shot.

USA keeper made her shot - I have not seen keepers miss shots, but I'm sure it happens.


PKs and kicks from the mark to determine the winner of a match are different. I think some teams might do well to have a different keeper.

In a PK - if you swat the ball forward, another forward will kick it again. GK are taught to re-direct the ball over the goal line for a corner.
In KFTM the ball is dead when it stops moving forward. Swatting that ball forward would have changed things.
So would have 3 shots on frame.

 

[Slobodan]

This is exactly how I'll remember Cioppino... especially after insisting on taking the earlier free kick and screwing that up, too.

 

[Slobodan]

Sweden has a really strong CB as well as keeper

I wouldn’t be surprised if they were able to grind out a couple more wins

XG was 1.8 for US , .1 for Sweden

Girma really starting to cement herself as one of the best CBs in the world ( if you are looking for positives )

Kinda surprised he didn’t have Kornieak on this roster, given her ability in the air

oh well, onto to the Olympics next summer

I would have liked to see Girma push the ball through the middle more like she did at Stanford, but I'm not sure there was anyone showing for her up the field. I think having to keep Ertz in the back so much didn't help.

 

[Slobodan]

I see you just joined us in February. But, please keep the politics in the other thread. Thanks.

Did you scold the others, too? I'll bet not. Thanks for the lecture, though, mommy.

 

[LASTMAN14]

Did you scold the others, too? I'll bet not. Thanks for the lecture, though, mommy.

Yes I have. This site went through a whole episode during Covid where every thread became political. That’s why Dominic permanently banned posters and created a different section to talk politics. The rest of us were here for soccer. So, if I stepped on your toes to explain that we (those who have been here prior to Covid) we are over it then okay…

 

[Slobodan]

Yes I have. This site went through a whole episode during Covid where every thread became political. That’s why Dominic permanently banned posters and created a different section to talk politics. The rest of us were here for soccer. So, if I stepped on your toes to explain that we (those who have been here prior to Covid) we are over it then okay…

No, you only step on toes of people you disagree with. That's my issue.

I get the rules... I acknowledged as much earlier.

 

[watfly]

I think the red flags were pretty obvious the last couple of years to anyone that was paying attention. The abysmal showing at the last U20 World Cup stands out in my mind as foreshadowing the future (although IDK that any of those women played in this WC) but the general lack of soccer IQ and tactics was reflective of the whole program.

A number of reasons why this years team failed that have already mentioned, I believe it is mostly programatic, but also issues specific to this team like lack of cohesiveness and focus (reasons for that are subject to debate, I have my own opinions which probably wouldn't be popular). Let's be honest, our US development program is a disaster, again mostly for reasons already stated by others. US Soccer couldn't work its way out of a wet paper bag. Seriously, two world-wide searches for a mens coach and we end up with NepoBro both times? All ask again, what happened to Double Pass revolutionizing US soccer development?

I can't speak for the girls side, but my son played DA and MLS Next for 5 years and the coaching was nothing special, the same old coaches mostly recycled between the clubs. Most can run soccer drills just fine but don't know how to coach youth and couldn't identify talent if Messi landed on top of them. To claim the women would do better with the boys system seems comical to me. Maybe emulate Real Salt Lake or Philly Union, but LAFC and LAG are nothing to write home about, other than attracting some of the best players through affiliation with the MLS. In SoCal, I'd take Strikers over both MLS teams.

It's ultimately a cultural issue, and until the US soccer community understands that soccer is primarily a decision making we're not going anywhere, despite having the most youth playing the sport than any other country. Soccer is not a game that you're taught, so much as it's a game that you learn. Yet you still see most coaches joysticking kids during games, force U8's to play out the back and having kids waiting around in lines or running laps in practice.

 

[pewpew]

This is exactly how I'll remember Cioppino... especially after insisting on taking the earlier free kick and screwing that up, too.

View attachment 17764

Yup..she's taking a lot of heat online for that. I don't know what she's happy about. She was the last person I expected to miss a KFTM.
She went in to replace Morgan. My guess is to send her off for her last game on the field instead of the bench. Did them no good.
I wonder if the US was winning if she would've still been subbed in.

 

[pewpew]

The keepers job is to be where the shots will go. Better, to keep them from happening at all by directing her defense.

The USA missed the frame 3X because they felt the keeper knew where their shots were going. (Obviously I don't KNOW what was in their minds - seems reasonable to me.)
I doubt they would have missed 3 without that keeper in the goal.
I don't particularly like a "save" to require it be on frame - esp. in the PKs where the keeper has a lot of affect on where that ball is shot.

USA keeper made her shot - I have not seen keepers miss shots, but I'm sure it happens.


PKs and kicks from the mark to determine the winner of a match are different. I think some teams might do well to have a different keeper.

In a PK - if you swat the ball forward, another forward will kick it again. GK are taught to re-direct the ball over the goal line for a corner.
In KFTM the ball is dead when it stops moving forward. Swatting that ball forward would have changed things.
So would have 3 shots on frame.

A lesser keeper would've lead to goals given up and the US winning. Look at the actual shootout. She didn't save one. But then again the US did the work for her by not converting. Naeher saved 1 plus almost saved a second. She had a few saves in the game but nothing like Sweden's keeper as far as performance during the game. And the GK can try and direct the team all they want..the field players listening and performing doesn't always go as planned.

As far as them missing 3x because they felt the keeper knew where their shots were going..they said Sweden's GK had the info on her water bottle, and Naeher had her info on her towel.

**It sounded like there were a lot of people booing every time it was the US's turn to take a kick.

 

[Grace T.]

It's ultimately a cultural issue, and until the US soccer community understands that soccer is primarily a decision making we're not going anywhere, despite having the most youth playing the sport than any other country. Soccer is not a game that you're taught, so much as it's a game that you learn. Yet you still see most coaches joysticking kids during games, force U8's to play out the back and having kids waiting around in lines or running laps in practice.

The main benefit of the academies is the amount of practice time and touches on the ball players get. School becomes secondary which you can’t say with run of the mill mls next teams certain ones like strikers and img excepted

I agree the main issue is cultural. As I mentioned our u20 boys academy teams are hanging in and beating the European academies. The European teams though don’t go to pieces because they lost. I remember watching a u12 game where Manchester United was beaten by tfa: tfa played very directly and did counteroffensives and breakaways off the Manchester mistakes. The Manchester team made mistakes because they were told to develop the possession game even when they were losing

you can only learn if you are allowed to make mistakes. But because soccer is such a tight game where a victory can be the difference of 1 goal allowing players to make mistakes means losing. And losing has serious consequences especially if the system has pro/rel at stake: it’s real money on the table as all the letter league drama shows: it can make the difference in the club being included in mls next or being locked out. it’s why coaches joystick: players have to be told what to do or they’ll make a mistake and lose. If winning isn’t what’s important then there is absolutely zero excuse for example of not having your goalkeepers take their goalkicks when they are young: they need to learn to do it.

europe isn’t all everyone gets an ayso trophy either. The academies are ruthless to players and absolutely ruthlessly cut them leaving them with few prospects except going to colleges in the us to play soccer because they are off the academic track. The difference is they evaluate the development (technical, tactical, physical, mental) of the individual player instead of the wins/losses of the teams. The staff is evaluated not by the record of the teams they coach but the number of players they develop for transfer and sale.

 

[pewpew]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1688160221728854018

 

[Ellejustus]

Yes I have. This site went through a whole episode during Covid where every thread became political. That’s why Dominic permanently banned posters and created a different section to talk politics. The rest of us were here for soccer. So, if I stepped on your toes to explain that we (those who have been here prior to Covid) we are over it then okay…

Dom did good by permanently banning asshats during Covid and adding "The Kitchen." The last three+ years has been insane and very, very political. I had no idea how political soccer can be. I must say I have been guilty of playing politics on these threads at times over the years and for that I sorry. Look what Trump just said. Trump, who is running for a White House return in the 2024 election if you didn't know, wrote on his own TruthSocial website that the loss was "fully emblematic of what is happening to our once great Nation under Crooked Joe Biden. Many of our players were openly hostile to America - No other country behaved in such a manner, or even close. Woke equals failure," DJT
I watched all the highlights of all the games and one thing I saw with the USA was tiredness, fatigue and lack of excitement or as I used to say, "no ganas." I would have started Thompson one of the games to see what she could muster.

 

[Kicker4Life]

Dom did good by permanently banning asshats during Covid and adding "The Kitchen." The last three+ years has been insane and very, very political. I had no idea how political soccer can be. I must say I have been guilty of playing politics on these threads at times over the years and for that I sorry. Look what Trump just said. Trump, who is running for a White House return in the 2024 election if you didn't know, wrote on his own TruthSocial website that the loss was "fully emblematic of what is happening to our once great Nation under Crooked Joe Biden. Many of our players were openly hostile to America - No other country behaved in such a manner, or even close. Woke equals failure," DJT
I watched all the highlights of all the games and one thing I saw with the USA was tiredness, fatigue and lack of excitement or as I used to say, "no ganas." I would have started Thompson one of the games to see what she could muster.

Oh…look who’s back yet again…….

 

[Ellejustus]

Oh…look who’s back yet again…….

I like Ellejustus avatar the best. EJ is the real deal. Crush was 100% my alter ego and the Chip on my shoulder. I'm just happy to be alive and I mean that. I promise EJ will just be visiting from time to time. Peace to you and Lastman

 

[Keeperkat]

The keepers job is to be where the shots will go. Better, to keep them from happening at all by directing her defense.

The USA missed the frame 3X because they felt the keeper knew where their shots were going. (Obviously I don't KNOW what was in their minds - seems reasonable to me.)
I doubt they would have missed 3 without that keeper in the goal.
I don't particularly like a "save" to require it be on frame - esp. in the PKs where the keeper has a lot of affect on where that ball is shot.

USA keeper made her shot - I have not seen keepers miss shots, but I'm sure it happens.


PKs and kicks from the mark to determine the winner of a match are different. I think some teams might do well to have a different keeper.

In a PK - if you swat the ball forward, another forward will kick it again. GK are taught to re-direct the ball over the goal line for a corner.
In KFTM the ball is dead when it stops moving forward. Swatting that ball forward would have changed things.
So would have 3 shots on frame.

Yep the keeper's job is to be where shots will go cutting off angles etc. Sweden's keeper was in the center of the box or side bar for most saves. Position 1 and 2 taught to goalkeepers very early on and positioning taught to field players to learn to work around.

Sweden's goalkeeper has awesome reflex but there were no grounders that required her to use that reflex because there was no power behind them. PKs are another beast that I wasn't referring to.