What If We Hit The Reset Button?

Too late to put the genie back in the bottle but change is needed.

Youth sports has turned into Big Business, a booming $20 billion business in the USA.

People feel like youth sports in America is either booming or suffering, depending on your socioeconomic status among other things


The $$billions$$ of dollars being poured into youth sports sounds like good business, but most of this money is centered on kids from parents with disposable income to spend. Kids from low-income families and underrepresented groups are not seeing the benefits.

Some of methods & legalese used to enable this is the "non-profit" status, shell companies, holding companies, subsidiaries and the like. US soccer for one has large legal "fund/team in the mist of a big lawsuit by the US women over inclusion & equal pay.

Tax payers are footing some of the bill for youth ports indirectly, not many $20$ billion dollar businesses get anyway with tax avoidance unless your Apple or amz and setup the shell companies like some youth sports organizations have attempted to copied. If things don't change $$$ is still going to the motivating factor for youth sports.

The cost for parents is steep. At the high end, families can spend more than 10% of their income on registration fees, travel, camps and equipment. We know some volleyball and hockey families that spent $20,000 one year on on there club teams including plenty on travel, gas: up to four nights a week , not getting home until very late, etc. Youth sports has "taken over everything" in some families which is nuts"

So what can be done now?
First we need to "open" up soccer to everyone so they feel included not just ones from certain socioeconomic classes.

How can that be accomplished?
First of all need to admit that youth learns through playing and they need to be taught in a way they understand. In the US that means also teaching courses in Spanish.
UScoccer has recently taken some baby steps in that direction with there "grassroots" program
But clubs need to implement these Grassroots programs and change to "Play-Practice-Play training sessions". Young kids don't want to train for 1 hour, do a bunch of drills and get a "scrimmage" for 15 mins at the end. As of right now this is a problem that needs to be addressed.

Getting back to the economic factors, Bob Bradley has some great insight recently:
Too many feel like there are not part of the game,l we must work harder, have to change and give more opportunity to more people.
Training compensation, solidarity payments, and Promotion and Relegation is sorely need.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1232516236413669376

Yeah heard it before, wont work, not practical for youth, BS I say.

Open up soccer to everyone, forget closed leagues, clubs, tournaments, and the like. Forget about expensive travel for 90% of all the players. Have local, Regional, area competition and save the travel for those special times where teams have earned that right to keep playing on like high school does for example.

Community-based teams have given way to a more mercenary approach, it’s worth asking what’s lost in the process? A growing body of research shows that intense early specialization in a single sport increases the risk of injury, burnout and depression. Fees and travel costs are pricing out lower-income families. Some kids who don’t show talent at a young age are discouraged from ever participating in organized sports. Those who do often chase scholarships they have a minuscule chance of earning.

Time to take back youth sports from big business interests & these organizations that demand families spend all day for a single game out in the sticks so they can chase some trophy that sits collectioning dust somewhere.

I'm sure somebody is going to debate or quote what I posted, and say this or that so go ahead but please offer alternatives. If you have better ideas, methods, plans feel free to contribute something positive that will help everybody out rather than sticking with the status quo, trying to justify what the establishment is already doing, patting them on the back. We don't need the 3 blind mice routine.
 
The Ghost of Johan Cruyff said:
You ever play Madden when the computer decides there is no way you are going to win the game? Fumbles, interceptions, injuries, etc. If you were anything like me when I was a kid the only solution on a guaranteed L was to hit the reset button.

Have we reached that point with youth soccer? Does anyone else feel like it has become so complex with so many super, duper, mega elite leagues and so much bad blood between people who support themselves by finding new ways to shake down parents that we should just hit the reset button?

I'd bet 90 of 100 people who were asked that would say "yes." But that is not my question. My question is what do we do on D1? There are a lot of people on this forum who know more about this game and have been around a lot longer than I have so I'm interested in their solutions. I'm not trying to bait anyone into an argument but I think i've only heard one poster (new wave?) who suggest a reasonable solution with the 4 counties. Any one else? What does a new soccer world look like? Maybe more importantly what does a club look like to be successful in your new world?

I have nothing to offer. I can't wrap my head around such a big topic. so, there it is...anyone brave enough to try? I'd rpefer to focus on the younger groups so we dont have to consider the high schools, colleges and other external entities.

What would you do if you could start soccer over????
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1. Get rid of DA. Huge expensive system in place that kills high school for 25 spots is idiotic.
2. No tryouts until after season.
3. Get rid of non profit status for these clubs or audit the hell out of them. End the hypocritical aspects.
4. Whole division of CSL and SCDL was over DA. Now that DA ended, put one system with flights 1,2,3.
 
pokergod said:
1. Get rid of DA. Huge expensive system in place that kills high school for 25 spots is idiotic.
2. No tryouts until after season.
3. Get rid of non profit status for these clubs or audit the hell out of them. End the hypocritical aspects.
4. Whole division of CSL and SCDL was over DA. Now that DA ended, put one system with flights 1,2,3.
Click to expand...

1. Agree
2. Agree
3. This would only raise the fees?
4. Agree
 
The two things I would change are:
  • Parent's should listen to their kids about what they want from playing soccer not enforce their own desires upon their kids.
  • Parent's should have a realistic viewpoint of their kids ability and put them into the appropriate level of play.
In today's soccer landscape there are many choices for parents. I think this is a very good thing. The challenge is understanding the two items above so you can help them navigate the process. If your kids just wants to have fun, play rec ball. As they get older if the social aspect is important to them play HS ball. If they are doing well in rec and THEY want more competition try club. If they are excelling at club and want more try for Tier 1 or Gold/Premier. For the few that are truly dedicated and want to play college ball or even pro try the DA or ECNL. It is very important that your kid plays at the right level based on what THEY are trying to achieve. If your kid plays regular club and is killing it at HS don't expect them to be recruited. They need to be playing with stronger talent to have a better chance to be evaluated correctly. Conversing don't have them play ECNL or DA if they don't want to play in college and don't have the singular focus or skill needed to be successful at that level.

I get sick and tired of parent's complaining about DA or other leagues. Step up and make the right choices that work for your kid based on their desires and skill level.
 
US population growth is down to 1.7 per couple. In 10 years this will all fix itself. It’s recession time for youth sports. Consolidation will happen. Esports in college will want a piece of that scholarship money. Fewer colleges will be around because many are going bankrupt.

It’s all good! Armageddon is coming. Lol.
 
DJB said:
How do the best European and South American countries do it?
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In Europe (except England, which has somewhat of a hybrid system), the way they do it is academy (usually fully funded) for those on a future pro track, and tiered rec for everyone else. Soccer isn't a path to college admissions because college admissions are pretty much determined only on the basis of test scores (and if you are a cynic, political connections). The academy track is ruthless, with many players washing out and then finding they are off the academic, arts or trade tracks once they've gone down the sports tracks. Have been watching some U11/U12 games on youtube...very different than our tier 1s...goalkeepers even that age execute high level IV moves such as tipping over bar, very possession oriented (not a whole lot of run and shoot), lots of tall players for their age.
 
pokergod said:
Kids don't play fortnight or do tik tok all day. Play soccer before school, during school and after school. Dribble ball between classes.
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Only if they are academy. Then even the video games at school available are fifa. Though they do get the summer season off (continentals think we are idiots for playing in the summer heat).

My sons little English pen pal youtubes, does skiing, studies for his standardized tests, just like an American tiered club player might.
 
The Ghost of Johan Cruyff said:
........What would you do if you could start soccer over????
Click to expand...

To do a reset, first we need to identify the reason for all of current state of fair to exists.
A) Club soccer caters to parents that wanted higher competition for their players than AYSO
B) DA/ECNL exists for identifying national team player pool
C) Rec leagues provides community based constructive youth sportsmanship development for those participate

So, lets agree on the fact that over 90% of club players are just okay. Some better than others but not truly national team or professional caliber, including those on DA roster for the most part. Also, the same population of players/parents are seeking college student athlete opportunity. Unfortunately, only handful of kids from top tier teams make it to the college level. All the others stop playing at that point or play college club or intermural soccer.

When a kid is 10 yrs old, there are many, many options of outcome possible. As the kid ages, options narrow, based on his/her playing abilities, skills and genetic lottery. By the time the kid is on the other side of puberty, options have narrowed to a few. Many kids have stopped playing by this time and found other interests or simply that life happens to them. Parents adjust to each situation and make best of it.

Now think about what club soccer has done through the years? Has facilitated keeping the options open and engaged the kids through adult supervised, organized team sports that cost thousands. Many parents put the kids in club soccer/sports just to keep them busy and out of trouble. Along the way, they hope that the kid picks up teamwork ethics and sportsmanship to be a successful adult.

All the clubs know this and they use soccer as a mean to generate revenue for their own organizations. Its a service you are buying. It may feel like its sports that you are participating and paying fees for but in reality, you are paying for the use of the field, lights, coaches salary, administrative costs of the club and their management. The difference is that at AYSO, most of the administrative and management positions are volunteers and the cities provide heavily discounted fee structure of field and lights use for their own citizens.

All the "passion" generated around kids sports by parents/adults are because we like to believe our own kids are the top 10% or better, and that somehow its all going to workout so that the kid becomes a national team or professional player. Or at a minimum, scholarship earning college student. Because of this belief, the parents pay and pay and pay to clubs, trainers, and alike.

If we could reinvent youth soccer, my view would look something like:

1) Take away all of "not for profit" designation from all clubs. Its business with lots of retained earnings.
2) Make USSF not operate their own league (DA) which enables clubs to be the gate keepers that ultimately is a conflict of interest
3) Have regional national team pool tryouts for USSF throughout the country for ID purposes (they used to have this until DA started at younger ages). Players can come from anywhere and not have to be on a DA club.
4) Expand and foster rec league (AYSO) to have a larger presence in youth soccer and let clubs charge as private services (sort of like public schools and private school). The 90% of the players will have great experiences and probably love the game more.
5) Let college scouting happen like all other sports - through high schools and showcases, and not just at DA playoffs/showcase

One of my buddy's kid is on Team USA for baseball and is being recruited by multiple MLB teams. He has committed to D1 college and has a choice to make if he is drafted this year. The whisper is that the kid is 2nd~3rd rounder today. The parents did not do anything extraordinary for the kid. Just a talented kid. He played travel ball and competed in AAU tournaments throughout his youth. The baseball scouting network must be more effective at the grassroots level than soccer so:

6) Establish network of scouts that do not coach for any club but are affiliated to USSF and/or MLS organizations throughout the country and have them attend both AYSO and high school games. Obviously, they would be there for the regional national team pool ID events.

Some of you know this from my other posts. I'll be done with club soccer in couple of months as our youngest graduates from HS and will be off to college. After 15 years in club soccer (and several years in travel ball clubs), between two kids, I have seen many crazy things that club soccer scene goes through. My older kid played DA, CSL Premier, Gold, SE, SCDSL Flight 1, NPL and currently plays in college. My younger played SCDSL Flight 3, 2, 1, NPL. Both kids played AYSO initially and so I have a pretty good sense of what each level is like and how parents behaves at those levels. My sense of reboot is based on my experience....was lot longer than I intended, sorry about that!
 
pokergod said:
Kids don't play fortnight or do tik tok all day. Play soccer before school, during school and after school. Dribble ball between classes.
Click to expand...
My older kid did that through high school. He'a an American but is half Italian so maybe that was why :)
 
I'm speaking for making the WNT teams only
1. No GDA league or only have one at Silver lakes. Let the top 24 players from SoCal in each group train there 10 months year, 4 days week.
2 Head coach cannot be a part of a club or work in a club for five years after of being employed by Federation.
3. Allow every girl or boy from any city, league, town, race, social, economical background and at least have a chance to be properly scouted.
4. Give a bonus to a scout like the guy who found Messi some reward money for finding the rare player(s) that I believe exist somewhere in America but can;t get a chance because of social struggles and doors locked because DA says so
5. No parents with kids playing in the club sitting on boards and making big decisions that effect everyone in SoCal

Remember when American Idol started. My family would watch this show and laugh at the parent who thought their kid could sing. Its what made the show fun to watch for me. Then we all loved it when some unknown person out of nowhere wins and become a star like Kelly to name one of the winners. I see soccer in SoCal like American Idol. Everyone thinks their kid can play "soccer" like Kelly can sing or with some development or singing lessons they could one day sing. I'm sorry everyone, you can;t play very well compared to being America's best. Can imagine all these bad singers leaving all in huff and a puff because some judge told them their kid can;t sing very well and then they go to, "Barrys (Manilow) Singing Academy" and Barry charges you $4,000 a year to develop your voice so you could sing and then go try again with the judges like some do. Again, I'm talking about the bad singers paying Barry $4K, not the one's that had a tough day at tryouts but has some potential. Now we have an American Idol soccer league for those who can;t sing very well. I'm not saying you can;t sing in the shower or out at the park, but to say your that close to the YNT with a little more development is why were in this mess. ECNL isn't the problem. Plus, I'm not using the word bad meaning your kid is no good so why even play soccer for fun. No, I'm only saying the player pool in the DA has too many ok soccer players and can sing in the shower or the park walking but not even good enough to sing at a bar or at third street promenaded street singing.
 
Many of the solutions offered involve money...where does it come from if not pay for play? The cheese is different, different goals here than in other places due to our university system.

$$$$….Coaching, Scouts, Facilities, Fully Funded....all this stuff...who pays? Where does it come from? For Int'l The clubs pay - The end result for int'l geographies for their academy's are the pro team - building the pro club, or developing and selling talent to build the top team...That's the goal, why they invest in the players, not to be good citizens or create "fair" playing opportunities for kids. To build their team.

Here the parent or the club pays to either build the club, win, recruit and provide the opportunity to get kids in front of the right coaches for college to get them a scholarship, or get into a school they could not otherwise get into. That's the cycle.

The end result (for the vast majority - not the WMT/MNT/Pro Unicorns) in the US is college. The result in the US is an opportunity at an education, a professional career, entrepreneurship, etc.. In some of the int'l pro academies, a player that washes out, possibly lacks education due to the time investment in soccer/futbol, what do they do? Do they go to school? Do they come to the US and coach?

Somebody always pays...not too many free lunches out there. Not a whole lot of real money in soccer in the US. Maybe for a few. For almost all it should be a hobby or tool to get where you want to go, stay healthy, learn teamwork, commitment, and accountability. I don't look at soccer as destination for the vast majority of kids.
 
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mirage said:
So, lets agree on the fact that over 90% of club players are just okay. Some better than others but not truly national team or professional caliber, including those on DA roster for the most part. Also, the same population of players/parents are seeking college student athlete opportunity. Unfortunately, only handful of kids from top tier teams make it to the college level. All the others stop playing at that point or play college club or intermural soccer.
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I disagree. The majority of girls playing DA/ECNL during their last year move on to college ball. I say the primary mission of both DA/ECNL is developing players for college regardless of the belief that the focus of DA is the National Team. For example my dd's DA team during the last year had 13 seniors and 5 juniors. 11 of the seniors played D1 last year and the other two played D2. 4 of the Juniors are signed D1 and the other Junior will play NAIA. All 18 girls got scholarships. Our second team (at that time in DPL) had one girl go D1 and at least 5 other girls go D2 or D3. I don't believe these stats are unique to our club. In fact, I think the vast majority of DA/ECNL players go on to play at college and earn scholarships. It is not too hard to research DA and ECNL commits to see the great success both leagues have in placing players at the next level.

If the skill and desire to play college ball exists, get your kid in the DA or ECNL.
 
A quick reminder that everything evolves and we can't fit a round peg into a square hole.

The DA was deemed necessary because the MLS and USL were not ready to support youth academies over a decade ago. The DA (boys) served its purpose and is now evolving into a 2 Tiered system with the MLS and a handful of academies on tier 1 and tier 2 for the others. The USL is now starting its own system. But please don't make the DA into something it is not. The DA is just a league, the teams are all funded by the clubs. Without the DA we just change the league ... the money and cost remain relatively the same.

Coast Soccer in SoCal used to be the only legitimate league. Gary ran it with an iron fist. The big clubs wanted a softer fist, Gary said no ... a new league called SCDSL was born. Evolution.

The Girls DA exists in response to claims of discrimination. The ECNL was doing a fine job, but the lack of a Girls DA was a vulnerability to an equality defense ... US Soccer evolved (or devolved) and created a Girls DA to eliminate the lack of equality claim. It exists because that is what US Soccer's members (namely the players) wanted.

HS Soccer has not been relevant because soccer at the collegiate level because it IS NOT a money sport. There are only 2 money sports: Football and Basketball. Therefore, there are only two groups that have the funds to send scouts across states/regions to visit individual games played by individual recruits. Soccer will never evolve into a collegiate money sport because the nature of the game internationally requires "athletes" to forego putting education first. The evolution here is to simply understand that this fish will never fly. HS Soccer is for fun, nothing more.

Pay-To-Play is evolving too. With the MLS's recent announcement that it will support Training and Solidarity Payments, the MLS clubs now have an incentive. Next evolution is to give the USL and DA academies an opportunity to be rewarded for investing in youth players.
 
One thing I've wondered is how you get buyer power back to the customers? Clubs have fragmented the market and created competition amongst the customers as opposed to the customers having power and creating competition among the clubs. There should be a parent managed tryout / combine and the clubs should have to pay for the right to watch and sign the players.
 
sdb said:
One thing I've wondered is how you get buyer power back to the customers? Clubs have fragmented the market and created competition amongst the customers as opposed to the customers having power and creating competition among the clubs. There should be a parent managed tryout / combine and the clubs should have to pay for the right to watch and sign the players.
Click to expand...
Someone had a plan to get us to attack each other and make the parents look like emotional nut cases like me. Gun Guy actually woke us all up.
 
sdb said:
One thing I've wondered is how you get buyer power back to the customers?
Click to expand...
I believe that's the only thing that will fundamentally change youth soccer. While training and solidarity payments may help, your never going to eliminate the issues associated with pay to play for the majority of youth soccer. Clubs and coaches don't believe they're in the customer service business. To them the parents are a problem to be ignored, not a customer to be satisfied. Their are definitely problem parents, but most parents just want some basic level of communication and consideration. Maybe the airlines treat their customers the worse, but pay-to-pay soccer comes pretty close.

Unfortunately the power dynamic is not likely to change. Parents are too afraid to speak up about poor coaching, poor training, poor development and bad behavior for fear of how it will impact their child's standing with the club and/or the "it" team.
 
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