Watch the play, not just the ball!

CopaMundial

CopaMundial

SILVER ELITE
I'm not one to complain or yell at refs, but at the DA level, I have found that the girls refs are ball watching. So many late fouls after the ball leaves and no one catches it. Center ref follows the play, but it seems that line judges/ar think their only job is to call offside. Am I wrong? Who is protecting the players any more. It's one thing to get ball first, but you can't lead in after with your body and if you're late, kicking the players heal or shin or ankle is a foul! Period. For all players, we need more concern for fouls after the play. For kicks or pushes from behind. It seems as though lately, we are seeing more and more refs that want the game to play on. I get the game needs flow, but player safety is more important and getting a handle early is better than carting a player off in the 60th minute.
 
many centers do not like their AR to call fouls. They see it as someone telling them how to do their job. The worst ones will even yell at a youth ref for trying to make a call.

of course, the players are smart. If you reduce the ref crew to one set of eyes, the players will foul more towards the corners and when view is obstructed.
 
The AR is likely also out of position since they have to be in line with the last defender (or ball if it's deeper in). If the ball takes place on the opposite end of the Pitch, the other side of the pitch, or anywhere away from that line, it's impossible for the AR to see. In the absence of VAR, you really need 5 people to see the entire field.
 
if this post isn't just biased bitching, as it very well could be, and there were intentional late tackles that mounted up, the trailing AR could be watching that after the center turns to follow play. i have to admit, i was guilty of that a few times, especially in high level girls games, where the center back would send a ball and get hit late by a forward. yes, it's usually on purpose....
 
Oh Jesus, what a bunch of horsesh#t. Here is what probably happened....team lost their DA game, a DA player got hurt, so some dad is pissed and goes on an online forum to tag all DA refs as lazy ball watchers. Reality....referees are not and cannot predict a foul until it happens. Referee guidance for DA is to allow players to play through fouls and allow the game to flow while only calling the fouls that really need to be called for game management. The majority of DA refs are Grade 5/6 or very experienced Grade 7/8. These are referees that know their jobs and do not “ball watch except.” A lot of the DA games also have a referee assessor watching the games (parents would usually have no idea who the assessor is). Referees hate to see any player get injured. So until you have refereed at least 500 (High school age/adult) games as a center, you have no credibility when it comes to evaluating referees. Just watch the game and cheer r for your kid.
 
Surfref said:
Referee guidance for DA is to allow players to play through fouls and allow the game to flow while only calling the fouls that really need to be called for game management.
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That is exactly the problem.

Referees, as instructed, are calling a loose game. As a result, kids are getting hurt.

Does anyone even know how many kids at Surf were diagnosed with concussions last year? How many ACL tears in GDA or ECNL?

No one even tracks the injuries. Kids are getting seriously hurt, and the referees are being told to ignore the fouls until it is too late.
 
I knew some snowflake would Interpret the “guidance” to suit their miserable life.
Plain and simple if it’s too much for you to handle, take your kid to a safer sport, perhaps swimming or golf.
Most kids want to play through most small fouls, the whiney parents are the ones who lose their marbles.
Most parents never enjoy the game because they do t watch the game, they come to watch their kids.
 
That's an ignorant view. at higher levels, coaches, players, and spectators don't want the game halted for simple fouls when the attacking team has a clear advantage and can keep the ball. that's what Surfref is talking about. challenges that are reckless or dangerous should/will be dealt with by cards. the game is rough and physical. that's the way it is. it is awful when a player gets a serious injury. the only way to be assured your player never gets hurt is to not play at all. but blaming injuries on referees just doesn't cut it with me.
 
Surfref said:
Referee guidance for DA is to allow players to play through fouls and allow the game to flow while only calling the fouls that really need to be called for game management.
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Based on my DA experience the last year+ I haven't necessarily seen this guidance applied in the games. My impression is that the refs call according to their own style but generally "straight up" for lack of a better term. Last week we had a ref that called the game very tight (contact and particularly handballs), it wasn't situational because the boys were well behaved from the start so I "assumed" that was just his style. The DA refs may allow a little more upper body contact (which I see as more of a natural progression as the kids get older) but I don't see tackles being officiated looser. I'm aware of some concussions and severe ankle injuries in 07 DA this year but I have no idea if it was a result of loose foul calling, although I doubt it.

Personally, I like refs allowing players to play through fouls. Unnecessary game stoppages are annoying to me. I don't think allowing them to play through fouls is making the games more dangerous. Most DA refs are savvy enough to tighten things up if the game starts to get too physical.
 
baldref said:
That's an ignorant view. at higher levels, coaches, players, and spectators don't want the game halted for simple fouls when the attacking team has a clear advantage and can keep the ball. that's what Surfref is talking about. challenges that are reckless or dangerous should/will be dealt with by cards. the game is rough and physical. that's the way it is. it is awful when a player gets a serious injury. the only way to be assured your player never gets hurt is to not play at all. but blaming injuries on referees just doesn't cut it with me.
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ad hominem. attacking the person, instead of the argument.
(in your case, accusing me of being ignorant instead of discussing the injury rates in premier level soccer.)

Injury rates in youth soccer doubled from 1990 to 2014. (injuries per athletic exposure, so this isn’t a population growth question.)

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2016-09-injuries-youth-soccer-players.html

Why are kids today being injured at twice the rate of kids in 1990? Same game. Mostly the same rules.

To me, the difference is clear. Same rules, but a looser interpretation. Play that once warranted a whistle or a card now gets ignored.

And, as a result, we have rougher play and double the injury rate that we should expect.

And, as GDA moves to an even looser interpretation of the rules, expect GDA to have an even higher injury rate.
 
What I see (and this is lower than DA level but not by much) is that the referees by being too loose on letting players play through fouls (not talking advantage here, just plain fouls) is that you are seeing 1) a lot of retaliation and that creates an unsafe playing environment and 2) the improper use of cards (yellows for punches thrown) ... and these snowball into games getting out of control with hard dirty fouls. I hate to agree with the "whiners" here, lol -- but I have seen a lot of bad injuries and due to referees letting teams play dirty where they are obviously trying to hurt people. Yes, it is not the referee who is taking the player out and injuring them but they are the ones in charge of the players safety on the field at all times like it or not.

Also saw a CR last weekend who would not give the teams a water break on a 80 minute 85F degree game (AR suggested to CR for the water break, CR said no) and 15 minutes later a kid feinted and passed out from the heat and paramedics were called in.

Safety first please. That should be in the referee guidance, not just to let players play through fouls (and the heat). And 'no' I am not going to sign my kid up for golf, lol -- what kind of comment is that.

[Edit: Obviously not all referees are like this ... but too many are. And yes I have a referee certification]
 
again, the only guarantee of your player not being injured is not letting them play. the game changes as the level goes up. it's not the referee's fault.
 
baldref said:
again, the only guarantee of your player not being injured is not letting them play. the game changes as the level goes up. it's not the referee's fault.
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If kids are getting injured in loosely called games, that is the referee’s fault. Who do you think taught the kids that fouls will not be called?

If a kid goes to the ER after a hard foul, ask yourself what did you call before that. Ask the coaches for the video. If you ignored a half dozen trips and shoves in the first half? Yes, that one is absolutely on you.
 
The ref's primary responsibility is player safety so for a ref to disclaim any culpability in all cases for injuries is not being accountable. However, I don't think the alleged loosening of the rules is a factor in causing injuries. A good ref can still let certain fouls go without letting things get out of control. Bad refs are more susceptible to letting things get out of control which may lead to unnecessary injuries. I'm not absolving players or coaches of their culpability in these matters, but players will take what they are given by the ref and will push boundaries. Its a competitive game, its human nature to take what your given. While its everyone is responsible for player safety, the ref is the specific person in soccer charged with that responsibility.

That having been said, in the hundreds of youth games I've seen, I can only think of 3 instances where I felt the ref's lack of game control contributed to an injury occurring. In most cases its all on the players.
 
dad4 said:
If kids are getting injured in loosely called games, that is the referee’s fault. Who do you think taught the kids that fouls will not be called?

If a kid goes to the ER after a hard foul, ask yourself what did you call before that. Ask the coaches for the video. If you ignored a half dozen trips and shoves in the first half? Yes, that one is absolutely on you.
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i disagree completely. we all know that there are referees who aren't up to the challenge of high level physical games. maybe the coaches reign in their crazy players? maybe the parents of the bowling ball who's chopping people's knees steps up and tells johnny or suzie to knock it off before they hurt someone. blaming the referee is a total cop out and shirking of responsibilities by coaches and parents. i considered myself a very competent referee. i saw players get injured during my games and there's nothing i could have done about it. some of the time it was horrible bad tackles. all the referee can do is issue discipline after the fact.

i can kind of understand the view that a referee can let a get get out of hand and of course in a sense it happens, but again, why can't the coach step up? why can't the players parents step up?
 
Are kids getting injured because of refs? Or is it because they are over trained? Or because they are spending more time in cars / planes / hotel rooms to get to games?
Probably a combination of the above.
 
timbuck said:
Are kids getting injured because of refs? Or is it because they are over trained? Or because they are spending more time in cars / planes / hotel rooms to get to games?
Probably a combination of the above.
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How often where those of us who played sports hurt?
 
dad4 said:
To me, the difference is clear. Same rules, but a looser interpretation. Play that once warranted a whistle or a card now gets ignored.

And, as a result, we have rougher play and double the injury rate that we should expect.
.
Click to expand...

I thought the opposite was true, refs call way more today than they did 20-30 years ago. I hear announcers lamenting all the time that the players are soft and demanding more calls.

I also agree with the question above about sport specialization and injury increases. The problem as I have heard it discussed is that they are playing WAY too much of one sport...
 
dad4 said:
That is exactly the problem.

Referees, as instructed, are calling a loose game. As a result, kids are getting hurt.

Does anyone even know how many kids at Surf were diagnosed with concussions last year? How many ACL tears in GDA or ECNL?

No one even tracks the injuries. Kids are getting seriously hurt, and the referees are being told to ignore the fouls until it is too late.
Click to expand...

I tend to call a loose game and let players play through fouls. How is a referee supposed to prevent a concussion or ACL injury before it occurs? In all of my games since last June there have been two possible concussions, three knee injuries, one broken nose and one broken arm, and none of those were the result of a player being fouled. All three knee injuries (2 girls & 1 boy) were off the ball no contact injuries. The two head injuries were a keeper that hit his head on a goalpost while making a save and the other one occurred when a boy headed a high punt from a keeper (player had just comeback from concussion protocol). Broken nose when a boy n the wall got hit in the face with the ball. The broken wrist occurred when a boy tried to slide to save a ball from going out of play and awkwardly got his arm under his body and broke a bone in his wrist. I am not sure how I could have prevented any of those injuries.

Referees are not told to ignore fouls, but to call the ones that truly affect the game or are needed to be called for game management. If referees called every foul then the game would stop every 1-3 minutes. There are minor trifling fouls occurring about every couple of minutes. It would be ludicrous to call every foul and just piss off the players. I have seen more problems in games where referees call overly tight games compared to a loose game.

All possible concussions are supposed to be reported by referees. Players in concussion protocol are tracked by CalSouth and local gaming leagues. They have to track them to prove they are following State laws and to avoid lawsuits. They track all head injuries and not just DA and ECNL. Other injuries are tracked when the referee knows about them and reports them.
 
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