Surf Players Being Discouraged from playing HS?

A few years in and I’m starting to believe HS is about as pay to play and corrupt as club is, with the have and have not programs, but without the ability to “club hop” the hell away from your circumstances.
What is that based on?
 
So if ECNL girls don't play High School, would they just practice with their club team since there are no ECNL games scheduled?
It depends on the club. At the club my DD is at from mid Nov to early Jan they have a lot of college players come in and practice. So the few girls not playing HS practice and do scrimmages with them. My DD loves it.
 
A few years in and I’m starting to believe HS is about as pay to play and corrupt as club is, with the have and have not programs, but without the ability to “club hop” the hell away from your circumstances.
All of my kids got introduced to older social circles through HS soccer teammates. Some of those Senior/Junior-Freshman/Soph relationships were very impactful on them in a positive way. Now they serve as the upper classmen mentors and carry on the tradition.

We all remember HS. When a Junior asks you to sit with them at lunch or a Senior invites you for coffee or ice cream after a practice with other Seniors, big confidence boost and elevates your child's standing among the other Freshmen. Now, they get invited into new Snap circles or other digital friend-groups. It sounds silly, of course, but in the HS world, we all know friendships and social circles are some of the most important and lasting experiences. The dynamic will similarly play out in college. Great to have that experience with 3yr older teammates already.

Adults should not take this decision away from teenagers. They are quite capable and have earned the right to choose for themselves whether to play HS soccer. Keep your opinions to yourself. Let them choose. And certainly do not let a club coach or US Soccer rep influence their decision--that's way outside their lane.
 
Adults should not take this decision away from teenagers. They are quite capable and have earned the right to choose for themselves whether to play HS soccer. Keep your opinions to yourself. Let them choose. And certainly do not let a club coach or US Soccer rep influence their decision--that's way outside their lane.
Agree. If my daughter would have wanted to play HS, I would have been fine with it.
 
And for those parents at Surf and other clubs already discouraging HS--you need to be more proactive. Your child needs to hear from you that if they want to play HS, you are okay with it and will support them 100%, regardless of what others are doing/saying at the club. Tell them that their opinion and thought on this issue is the ONLY one that matters, and that every player's soccer (and high school) journey is unique. "Do what YOU want to do."
 

dreamz

SILVER ELITE
I will take that bet. Surf’s best shot at ECNL championship is the 2006 Girls, and Deza is not even allowed to work with them! L Hunt is the gaffer and does a great job with the ‘06s. Deza’s only full time team is the 07’s. He has changed the way they play and it takes time—lately their results are not good.
Surf, in its prime, was a train 2-3 days a week juggernaut of a club. Players played high school. They would have a month off in the winter and a month of in the summer after Surf Cup. No one wanted to play Surf. Everyone wanted to play for Surf. The difference was the coaching. Things are over the top now and the teams are going backwards. Keeping it simple brought results. Making it more difficult and having questionable staff is bringing the program down. It's sad to see when the once mighty start to fall.
 
High school soccer is garbage. From my personal experience in a CIF-LA league, the teams are never built to full potential. You have talented kids who get grade cut (which in my opinion is the dumbest thing ever), you have coaches who show favoritism to players who are sometimes absolutely terrible but because they were in JV the years before they get an automatic spot. Nobody watches the games, sometimes not even the players families because it’s on a school day where they might be at work. And last but not least you have coaches who keep their jobs every year even though they have terrible results because of seniority. I compare HS Soccer to playing CSL Bronze maybe Silver if we’re being generous.
In my opinion it sounds like the OP is just trying to stir something up because this is Surfs choice. If a kid wants to play HS soccer then leave Surf simple as that. But don’t go saying “oh I thought ECNL said HS soccer is okay so why is surf saying to not do it” because like I said that’s the clubs personal choice.
 
And if we’re honest, a lot of college soccer is a continuation of high school soccer. Yes, club players make up the bulk of college teams, but college play looks more like high school play. Uncreative play, long balls, poor first touch, no subtlety and anticipation, linking passes.

ok, top tier college play is much better than that, but the bulk is pretty shaky.
 

lafalafa

PREMIER
High school soccer is garbage. From my personal experience in a CIF-LA league, the teams are never built to full potential. You have talented kids who get grade cut (which in my opinion is the dumbest thing ever), you have coaches who show favoritism to players who are sometimes absolutely terrible but because they were in JV the years before they get an automatic spot. Nobody watches the games, sometimes not even the players families because it’s on a school day where they might be at work. And last but not least you have coaches who keep their jobs every year even though they have terrible results because of seniority. I compare HS Soccer to playing CSL Bronze maybe Silver if we’re being generous.
In my opinion it sounds like the OP is just trying to stir something up because this is Surfs choice. If a kid wants to play HS soccer then leave Surf simple as that. But don’t go saying “oh I thought ECNL said HS soccer is okay so why is surf saying to not do it” because like I said that’s the clubs personal choice.
City league is not that great but that Birmingham team did make it to the finals in regionals and lost in overtime in a very close game.

CIF-SS section is pretty good and most of the D1-D3 are packed with club players. The Jesuit schools can be like All star club teams, they recruit, have large rosters, and up to 5 paid coaches most of which are club coaches also.

My kids HS games would sell out the stands during the playoffs every year, they had more fans at those games vs what most college soccer do during regular season outside students that get in free and happen to be on campus.

There is nothing like playing for your home town, getting cheered on by her fellow students, friends, neighbors and hosting a banner that will be hanging forever. The friendships, experiences, and memories of high school last long after you graduate.
 
The social aspect of HS sports is its big "win" over club soccer.
Most Euro coaches that coach club can;t understand HSS and I get that. They watch and cringe and so do I at times, I wont lie. But college is rough too. Its aall a cross between roller derby and rugby but with cleats and a ball. Refs are not making calls and this type of play is allowed. The things they say to each other too is insane. The social aspects as a Fr for my dd and playing with Seniors and being invited to a SR party is super rad. The Seniors even came and woke my dd up at 5am and took her to breakfast before school. They also made her where a varsity boys jerseys and dressed her up like him and wear make up all over and just super fun stuff. We always have a packed house at our home games. Try playing Los Al on the road or Newport. Packed house with music before the games.
 

lafalafa

PREMIER
Most Euro coaches that coach club can;t understand HSS and I get that. They watch and cringe and so do I at times, I wont lie. But college is rough too. Its aall a cross between roller derby and rugby but with cleats and a ball. Refs are not making calls and this type of play is allowed. The things they say to each other too is insane. The social aspects as a Fr for my dd and playing with Seniors and being invited to a SR party is super rad. The Seniors even came and woke my dd up at 5am and took her to breakfast before school. They also made her where a varsity boys jerseys and dressed her up like him and wear make up all over and just super fun stuff. We always have a packed house at our home games. Try playing Los Al on the road or Newport. Packed house with music before the games.
Not usual to see club head coaches as assistants at a high school and/or colleges. The better ones know how to get the best out of each environment and play a consistent attractive style.

Pocession style is the most difficult to play all the time and some just don't have the patience for it. Long ball, running and gunning is what you see more in HS but that can be entertaining and fun, rather lose 6-5 vs 1-0 any day time deal.

College game is super physical and they really let them play. Still not as much procession as you might see in a USL 2 or semi league but more vs what you seen in high school. Speed of play is incredible on college, everything is like 1, 2 touch..
 
Not usual to see club head coaches as assistants at a high school and/or colleges. The better ones know how to get the best out of each environment and play a consistent attractive style.

Pocession style is the most difficult to play all the time and some just don't have the patience for it. Long ball, running and gunning is what you see more in HS but that can be entertaining if you like offense.

College game is super physical and they really let them play. Still not as much procession as you might see I'm a USL 2 or semi league but more vs what you see in high school. Speed of play is incredible on college, everything is like 1, 2 touch..
Great stuff.
 

LouSag

BRONZE
MW over Deza is a definite.
MW just watched his ‘05 thru ‘07 DMCV Sharks ECNL girls lose by a combined 16 goals this past weekend in league play to Deza.
I hope MW can turn it around, but it’s gonna take a lot of patience, coaching, and most of all….recruiting.
 

dk_b

GOLD
HS soccer is like eating at Chili's - if you expect French Laundry, you are going to be really disappointed. If you expect Chili's, you will be satisfied.

My older daughter played 4 years of HS and many years of ECNL. She loved playing for her school. It's not about the style of play or the "growth" of the team - her school was an amalgam of players from different clubs and very few D1 players (1 playing in the Pac-12 and 1 playing in Ivy) but b/c she played for a club outside of her community, she just loved playing with her schoolmates. It will have zero impact on what she achieves in soccer (it hasn't so far) but I can guarantee it enhanced her love for the sport and her community. And anyone who thinks that taking a 3 or 4 month break to play with your school adversely impacts development is attributing far too much to that period of time. If not, no player could return to form after a significant injury. For strong players, playing a less structured, less pressure-filled game can be a nice break. In the end, I think it should always be the player's/family's decision, not the club's.

As for injury - my 3 soccer playing kids have suffered injuries as many of yours have. We have seen minor broken bones, broken bones requiring surgery, ankle sprains, torn ACLs, etc. All but one (one of the 2 ACL tears that my twins are rehabbing) has occurred in the club context. My older kid played a position where she was in direct fire for less skilled players beating the crap out of her in a HS game and I found it no more risky than in club (the worst injury she had in HS was a leg-to-leg collision that hit her so hard that the skin on her shin - with a shin guard protecting it - split. The other player? A very good, high-level, club player)
 
HS soccer is like eating at Chili's - if you expect French Laundry, you are going to be really disappointed. If you expect Chili's, you will be satisfied.

My older daughter played 4 years of HS and many years of ECNL. She loved playing for her school. It's not about the style of play or the "growth" of the team - her school was an amalgam of players from different clubs and very few D1 players (1 playing in the Pac-12 and 1 playing in Ivy) but b/c she played for a club outside of her community, she just loved playing with her schoolmates. It will have zero impact on what she achieves in soccer (it hasn't so far) but I can guarantee it enhanced her love for the sport and her community. And anyone who thinks that taking a 3 or 4 month break to play with your school adversely impacts development is attributing far too much to that period of time. If not, no player could return to form after a significant injury. For strong players, playing a less structured, less pressure-filled game can be a nice break. In the end, I think it should always be the player's/family's decision, not the club's.

As for injury - my 3 soccer playing kids have suffered injuries as many of yours have. We have seen minor broken bones, broken bones requiring surgery, ankle sprains, torn ACLs, etc. All but one (one of the 2 ACL tears that my twins are rehabbing) has occurred in the club context. My older kid played a position where she was in direct fire for less skilled players beating the crap out of her in a HS game and I found it no more risky than in club (the worst injury she had in HS was a leg-to-leg collision that hit her so hard that the skin on her shin - with a shin guard protecting it - split. The other player? A very good, high-level, club player)
A dad with experience. Thanks for sharing your journey bro. My dd is playing possession style soccer with her hss team and will stay out of rugby style plays and win at all cost moments. She has matured beyond years and is looking at this as a fun senior year with expectations only at just having fun with her friends and maybe make a little run with a little luck and a bad bounce and her team can make playoffs and a run in the playoffs against schools with 3000+ and or Private Schools. Her little school 700+ got moved up to D1 and I was blown away. Does not sit will but whatever. I was shocked and floored at the same time but her little team is up for the challenge. My dd got pushed hard from behind last year in hss and broker her a bone in her ankle and then got her hair pulled down in a rugby match game at club and was out for a while. Girls play this game for weird reasons. We need to find a safer way to play so less ACL and that is possession only and quick yellow and reds to ends this madness once and for all.
 

BIGD

SILVER ELITE
I think it should always be the player's/family's decision, not the club's.
Agree with everything you wrote but it really all comes down to this.

MLS Next should really be reconsidering this rule for their non-MLS academies in the league. I've seen a lot more players this year leave their non-MLS Academy Club to play high school than I have seen in past years. I think that's a trend that will continue.
 

dk_b

GOLD
Agree with everything you wrote but it really all comes down to this.

MLS Next should really be reconsidering this rule for their non-MLS academies in the league. I've seen a lot more players this year leave their non-MLS Academy Club to play high school than I have seen in past years. I think that's a trend that will continue.
I am not sure how scheduling works but I think one of the problems with GDA (and a big contributor to its downfall) was US Soccer's desire to schedule nationally and not allow the clubs to schedule locally (as is permitted in ECNL other than for national events). By scheduling locally, clubs and regions could take a HS break - only 6 or so states play HS in the winter and, of the balance, about half play in fall and half play in spring. But if ECNL, like GDA, wanted to schedule all games from a national perspective, it would be a total nightmare when you consider not just HS soccer but proms and SATs and other events. If GDA had taken its foot of the gas a bit, the buy-in would have been much higher in a state like CA where so many of the top players DO play HS (even I know about JSerra and the HS battles in the southland and I'm in the Bay Area. EBAL players up here did not go to GDA in high #s b/c in the 680 corridor up here, HS is HUGE).

Back to your point about MLS Next: if scheduling is handled nationally, I can't imagine permitting a HS break. The logistics would be too daunting.
 
MW just watched his ‘05 thru ‘07 DMCV Sharks ECNL girls lose by a combined 16 goals this past weekend in league play to Deza.
I hope MW can turn it around, but it’s gonna take a lot of patience, coaching, and most of all….recruiting.
Not everything that glitters is gold. How long has MW been at DMCV? His recruiting might get a lot easier from what I am hearing.
 

Goforgoal

SILVER ELITE
MW just watched his ‘05 thru ‘07 DMCV Sharks ECNL girls lose by a combined 16 goals this past weekend in league play to Deza.
I hope MW can turn it around, but it’s gonna take a lot of patience, coaching, and most of all….recruiting.
Of course. Even Pep can't just walk into Norwich City and immediately start beating Liverpool and Chelsea. It takes better, more committed players. Obviously this season is still reflective of the state of the previous club, and future seasons will reflect any changes MW has been able to execute. It starts with the coaching staff, which if the rumors are true, we'll see some new faces wearing Sharks coach kits in the not too distant future. Then it's attracting better players, which I personally think will happen, first through recruiting then organically. The hard part will be getting those parents who are too fixated on results to buy in and see the forest through the trees.

In the end, I see Sharks teams improving competitively across the board in the seasons ahead of us, which is what Surf wants right? Better competition for their teams week in an week out? Or do they want to continue to flex their weekend results against Rebels and Sharks on their Instagram account? Naw .. they couldn't want that. :rolleyes:
 
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