Boys: CSL Premier vs ECNL Boys vs MLS Next

Kante

Kante

PREMIER
Dargle had some good insight a while back on the relative strength btw the different groups.

Just saw these results from the Dallas Cup.

CSL Premier team Olympiacos (#1 in CSL Premier b05 last year with 8 wins and three ties, and 33 goals for vs goal 10 goals against) won their group and beat Crossfire Premier b05 ECNL to advance to the DC semi's.

For reference, Crossfire is first in their ECNL group with six wins and one tie, with 37 goals for and two goals against, and am assuming this b05 team is Crossfire's former DA team.

Next up in the semi's, Olympiacos is playing the Dallas Texans ECNL team, which is also #1 in their ECNL group with 10 wins and one loss with 43 goals for vs 11 goals against. Game is/was today (4/2) at 11am texas time.

Here's link to Dallas Cup results: http://www.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=80263&Gender=Boys&Age=16

Two cents is that - intuitively - any league that has at least some pro/rel merit driven component - as CSL does - should have its highest levels rated on par with the so-called elite leagues. Also, the SoCal bigot in me (I'll own it), would rate SoCal boys soccer at/above any other region in the country.

Thoughts/comments?
 
Generally agree with the caveat that this Spring season is probably even less meaningful than most.

So many kids are switching teams. So many guests and tryout kids on rosters. MLS and EAL leagues taking lots of strong kids.

Looking at last years results probably not that indicative.

Agree that SoCal is top region.
 
Anomalies or unicorn teams can happen from any leagues or places.

That Olympiacos team used to be pats, had some controversy regarding ineligible players, coaches, switched to LAUFA for last Dallas Cup, and found a new home with Olympiacos for now.

Time will team which leagues have a depth of quality. There all diluted to some degree so whatever works better best for a player good for them.

There are very expensive domestic academy program that go to Dallas like IMG, Barcelona, etc that normally don't make a splash at the bigger Tournaments like Dallas. They will have the occasional unicorn player that makes the next step so sometimes the environment does help even if the team is not that great at winning overall.

Bottom line get with a experienced coach or club with a history of developing players in a style that fits the player and don't be overly concerned which league(s) they may play in.
 
Kind of depends on what your looking for. Each league will have strong teams so from a competition point of view I’d say they are a wash. What ECNL has that the other leagues struggle with is the college going angle. The ECNL teams send their kids to play in college at a much higher rate than the other leagues. Yes, there are kids going to college from these other leagues but not close as a whole. Watching 2 encl boys games this weekend there were only a handful of kids that will not play college soccer with most already signed at the U18/19.
 
Kante said:
Two cents is that - intuitively - any league that has at least some pro/rel merit driven component - as CSL does - should have its highest levels rated on par with the so-called elite leagues. Also, the SoCal bigot in me (I'll own it), would rate SoCal boys soccer at/above any other region in the country.

Thoughts/comments?
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First season for one of my players in CSL Premier after 3 seasons of DA. The football is not as pretty but a lot of raw talent and passion. Certainly overlap with BECNL, EA, and perhaps the lower end of MLSN. A big gap with the top end of MLSN though IMO.
 
galaxydad said:
Kind of depends on what your looking for. Each league will have strong teams so from a competition point of view I’d say they are a wash. What ECNL has that the other leagues struggle with is the college going angle. The ECNL teams send their kids to play in college at a much higher rate than the other leagues. Yes, there are kids going to college from these other leagues but not close as a whole. Watching 2 encl boys games this weekend there were only a handful of kids that will not play college soccer with most already signed at the U18/19.
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That is true on the girls side. Boys ecnl is only 3-4 years old and was largely irrelevant until the DA folded last Spring.
 
Olympiacos made the final. It will be on tomorrow on ESPN3 at 10:30am. Best of luck boys, represent.
 
I have noticed that rosters have been a lot more fluid than normal this spring, at least on the Boys side, and that will interfere with any attempt to compare leagues. I'm not talking about movement from last year to this year or from last fall to this spring, but from week-to-week. I have seen players who have left Boys ECNL teams for MLS Next teams in different clubs, a week after playing an ECNL game. I have also seen Boys ECNL players who have shown up on CSL Premier or SCDSL Discovery rosters (in either the same or different clubs), possibly in a double rostering situation while their Boys ECNL teams are taking a break or playing irregularly during HS soccer season. I've even seen people move from one Boys ECNL club to another in the same month. Without most leagues being under the Cal South umbrella, roster freezes seem to be irrelevant. It seems to depend more on the club than the league as to whether the roster is remaining stable.

It's probable that this will settle down next year, especially if HS Soccer is back to it's normal spot in the calendar and players are prohibited from playing both by CIF. Nevertheless, the USYS - US Club divide will further enable this in-season, week-to-week, movement.
 
Kante said:
Dargle had some good insight a while back on the relative strength btw the different groups.

Just saw these results from the Dallas Cup.

CSL Premier team Olympiacos (#1 in CSL Premier b05 last year with 8 wins and three ties, and 33 goals for vs goal 10 goals against) won their group and beat Crossfire Premier b05 ECNL to advance to the DC semi's.

For reference, Crossfire is first in their ECNL group with six wins and one tie, with 37 goals for and two goals against, and am assuming this b05 team is Crossfire's former DA team.

Next up in the semi's, Olympiacos is playing the Dallas Texans ECNL team, which is also #1 in their ECNL group with 10 wins and one loss with 43 goals for vs 11 goals against. Game is/was today (4/2) at 11am texas time.

Here's link to Dallas Cup results: http://www.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=80263&Gender=Boys&Age=16

Two cents is that - intuitively - any league that has at least some pro/rel merit driven component - as CSL does - should have its highest levels rated on par with the so-called elite leagues. Also, the SoCal bigot in me (I'll own it), would rate SoCal boys soccer at/above any other region in the country.

Thoughts/comments?
Click to expand...

You summarized this in your "two cents" paragraph. It is a California team from a "Tier B" league against a non-California team from a "Tier A" league.

I would like to see this Olympiacos team against a California ECNL team. Then we would know if there's really a difference or not.

My son was telling me the other day "dad, if we were in Utah or something, all these top teams would be fighting for me.. here in CA, not so much, ha!"
 
mlx said:
You summarized this in your "two cents" paragraph. It is a California team from a "Tier B" league against a non-California team from a "Tier A" league.

I would like to see this Olympiacos team against a California ECNL team. Then we would know if there's really a difference or not.

My son was telling me the other day "dad, if we were in Utah or something, all these top teams would be fighting for me.. here in CA, not so much, ha!"
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And yet most of the youth boys players making it to Europe do not come from California! So we clearly have the talent but other states are allowing their very best to rise to the top and go pro.
 
SoccerFan4Life said:
And yet most of the youth boys players making it to Europe do not come from California! So we clearly have the talent but other states are allowing their very best to rise to the top and go pro.
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Not a big enough sample size.

CA and SoCal specifically created a disproportionate number of USMNT players over the last decade+.
 
I agree with the premise that SoCal talent has a greater width and depth than other regions, with Dallas area being the most comparable. I also thought that the 2021 Dallas Cup was far from the top teams from SoCal. Good teams yes, but not convinced it was the top at each age level. Plus, Dallas Cup was almost all TX or CAS teams without geographical diversity. I blame covid and Jefferson Cup (same weekend). I do want to be clear that I'm not taking anything away from the teams that played and won. End of the day, you can only beat who is across from you. So reluctantly, (joke) I will admit that SD Surf represented themselves well at Dallas Cup 2021.
I am very curious if Man City will draw some top out of area teams, granted there is no u15 International SuperGroup.
 
RedDevilDad said:
I agree with the premise that SoCal talent has a greater width and depth than other regions, with Dallas area being the most comparable. I also thought that the 2021 Dallas Cup was far from the top teams from SoCal. Good teams yes, but not convinced it was the top at each age level. Plus, Dallas Cup was almost all TX or CAS teams without geographical diversity. I blame covid and Jefferson Cup (same weekend). I do want to be clear that I'm not taking anything away from the teams that played and won. End of the day, you can only beat who is across from you. So reluctantly, (joke) I will admit that SD Surf represented themselves well at Dallas Cup 2021.
I am very curious if Man City will draw some top out of area teams, granted there is no u15 International SuperGroup.
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Jefferson a top draw for college coaches.

Dallas more for the competition but this go around not a big draw outside of Texas or from the west coast.

In the end MLS Next or ECNL teams pretty much took all the boys boot and ball championships. The future u18 team from Maryland plays in some regional league I think.
 
RedDevilDad said:
I agree with the premise that SoCal talent has a greater width and depth than other regions, with Dallas area being the most comparable. I also thought that the 2021 Dallas Cup was far from the top teams from SoCal. Good teams yes, but not convinced it was the top at each age level. Plus, Dallas Cup was almost all TX or CAS teams without geographical diversity. I blame covid and Jefferson Cup (same weekend). I do want to be clear that I'm not taking anything away from the teams that played and won. End of the day, you can only beat who is across from you. So reluctantly, (joke) I will admit that SD Surf represented themselves well at Dallas Cup 2021.
I am very curious if Man City will draw some top out of area teams, granted there is no u15 International SuperGroup.
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curious did sd surf win some or most of the brackets
 
lafalafa said:
Two: U12 and u14. Finalist for U15.

The u14 team in particular impressed according to what I heard.
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07 sd surf is pretty good , 2008 sd surf seem to struggle year after year ,they didn’t show well and have been on a losing streak locally too lately—not sure on u12 isn’t OC Surf the team to beat in 07’s, are they better than sd surf?
 
46n2 said:
07 sd surf is pretty good , 2008 sd surf seem to struggle year after year ,they didn’t show well and have been on a losing streak locally too lately—not sure on u12 isn’t OC Surf the team to beat in 07’s, are they better than sd surf?
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IMO, 2007 SD Surf > OC Surf. Not by much, but having seen both play several times, I think the SD Surf is the more experienced and consistent team. Plus, SD upgraded with some players that left top teams. SD Surf won Dallas Cup. OC Surf won Surf Cup. SD Surf 07s have been playing at a high level for at least 4 years with that core. That OC Surf was a Strikers Newport Mesa team before being something else... They will continue to improve as they play together longer so it is a team worth paying attention to... if they can stay together and not get picked off when LA Galaxy's 07s identify needs or if they don't have the name recognition/connections to get into Surf Cup's Best of the Best bracket.

The U15/06 SD Surf came up against, IMO, the top U15 team in the nation in FC Dallas's MLS Next Academy Team. I think that Dallas team has 2-4 legit YNT prospects. SD Surf got handled 4-0. 06 SD GK shined though. I don't think that loss is anything to be ashamed of. I was actually impressed with the 06 run. Yes, the 07 SD won Dallas Cup. I thought they really only had to play a tough game against Solar which is a top 40 team nationwide. They also lost their opening game. Otherwise, I wasn't wow'd with their results in this particular tourney. My opinion is that SD Surf 07s are top 5 team in SoCal, for sure top 07 boys team in San Diego. Again, not trying to take anything away but also not saying it was the greatest tourney run in history. Although, I've been more impressed with SD Surf as a club lately. They just got two more SD Surf alumni signed with SD Loyal. SD Surf has kids leave for Europe as well. If my lil Messi was a top player in the OC or Temecula... I'd be driving to San Diego Surf.
 
RedDevilDad, you always have a great, broad view across SoCal soccer on the boys side. Since you mentioned it, who would your top 5 boys teams be at the 07 age group in Socal? And any other age you have insight on? Thanks in advance.
 
RedDevilDad said:
IMO, 2007 SD Surf > OC Surf. Not by much, but having seen both play several times, I think the SD Surf is the more experienced and consistent team. Plus, SD upgraded with some players that left top teams. SD Surf won Dallas Cup. OC Surf won Surf Cup. SD Surf 07s have been playing at a high level for at least 4 years with that core. That OC Surf was a Strikers Newport Mesa team before being something else... They will continue to improve as they play together longer so it is a team worth paying attention to... if they can stay together and not get picked off when LA Galaxy's 07s identify needs or if they don't have the name recognition/connections to get into Surf Cup's Best of the Best bracket.
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OC Surf or TFA OC? My understanding is that OC Surf went back to being WCC. OC Surf 07 was not very competitive in DA. TFA OC won Surf Cup.

SD Surf 07 added a kid (#5) for Dallas Cup that was clearly the best player on its team...IMO. Rumor is the kid will be joining the team in a few months.
 
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