Club soccer stuff that drive you nuts...

GLangevinito said:
Carlsbad didn't need to win. So why did they collude to throw the match? It wasn't about preventing injuries. Courtney could have played subs. She could have told them to lay back defensively. She could have told them to take their time and slow the pace of the game down. All acceptable. They did none of those things. They chose not to compete at all. Did you watch the video?

The only reason USYS did not disqualify both teams (as they should have), is that both coaches stuck to their lie that they did not collude, despite the video proving their statements false.



How is there a "high" risk of injury? More than any other match? And yes, if I were in Courtney's place on that day, I would have played all my subs, told them to save their strength and not kill themselves, but I would have TOLD THEM TO PLAY. Not sit back for an entire game without a defensive challenge.



They didn't make a subpar effort, THEY MADE NO EFFORT. And by doing so they robbed that other team of the bargain they made when they entered the competition - that every team will compete. They did not compete that day.



You are confusing a team failing to play in a style that they would have preferred to NOT PLAYING AT ALL.

Frankly, you are what is wrong with youth sports today. Win at all costs. Who cares about ethics? Do what you need to advance, screw everyone else.
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I could care less about which team made it to the next round or wins - that's the difference. I'll let the players and the coach decide how to strategize a tournament and not criticize them based on a video and an article, rather than listen to those who experienced the climate. I'm sorry that you feel everyone has to make the decisions you would have made during a game. I agree with Courtney. Why would I let my subs get injured in an unnecessary game in extreme heat? I need them for the elimination game too if it's going to be hot again, which it most likely will be. Some teams need to win and will have to play differently because they didn't play well enough to earn the right to have a choice not to play much.

The parent that sent in the video was angry because their kid didn't make it to the next round, blaming others and expecting others to make decisions that will benefit their child. It's not rec soccer. Those parents cared so much about winning and making it to the next round, they tried to humiliate a bunch of soccer players/coaches and demean their choice. The players and coaches get to make the decision on how they play the game, not parents on other teams hoping for a windfall. Don't send a video out to the public to bully coaches and kids because your kids can't control their destiny. It's lame and ruins the game. What should have been a fun time for girls that have worked hard to get there, turned into a negative event because parents had to blame others for their team's shortcomings.

Soccer is not just physical, soccer IQ includes knowing when to save your energy and when to play your hardest. Some games sharpen your skills, some games sharpen your mind and some games allow you to rest your body for the elimination round.
 
GLangevinito said:
Lots of excuses from the Carlsbad parents. It's VERY unlikely that the "players decided on their own" to pass the ball around and not play defense for 80 minutes. Players are there to play, no matter if they are hot, or tired, or a bench player. The video showed 64 consecutive passes completed by one side with no pressure before kicking it to the other team.

No matter what the competitive situation was, both coaches made the decision to not play and rob another team of an opportunity to advance, no matter how slim the chances were. It's shameful, and I would bet you that 100% of the girls who were on the field that day regret it. I blame the coaches.
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I just googled the video out of curiosity.

nypost.com

2 youth girls soccer teams fixed match, and it’s unwatchable

Two teams in the U.S. Youth Soccer National Championships in Frisco, Texas have been suspected of match fixing to ensure their survival in the tournament. Carlsbad Elite and Ambassadors FC entered …
nypost.com nypost.com

I’d pull my kids off the field mid game if they were doing this.
 
Emma said:
I could care less about which team made it to the next round or wins - that's the difference. I'll let the players and the coach decide how to strategize a tournament and not criticize them based on a video and an article, rather than listen to those who experienced the climate. I'm sorry that you feel everyone has to make the decisions you would have made during a game. I agree with Courtney. Why would I let my subs get injured in an unnecessary game in extreme heat? I need them for the elimination game too if it's going to be hot again, which it most likely will be. Some teams need to win and will have to play differently because they didn't play well enough to earn the right to have a choice not to play much.

The parent that sent in the video was angry because their kid didn't make it to the next round, blaming others and expecting others to make decisions that will benefit their child. It's not rec soccer. Those parents cared so much about winning and making it to the next round, they tried to humiliate a bunch of soccer players/coaches and demean their choice. The players and coaches get to make the decision on how they play the game, not parents on other teams hoping for a windfall. Don't send a video out to the public to bully coaches and kids because your kids can't control their destiny. It's lame and ruins the game. What should have been a fun time for girls that have worked hard to get there, turned into a negative event because parents had to blame others for their team's shortcomings.

Soccer is not just physical, soccer IQ includes knowing when to save your energy and when to play your hardest. Some games sharpen your skills, some games sharpen your mind and some games allow you to rest your body for the elimination round.
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In sports, "saving your energy" is not the same as what those teams did. Zero shots. 64 consecutive passes completed. Intentional turnovers. No defense.

There is no excuse for cheating and match fixing, no matter how good of an excuse you have. It violates the integrity of the sport.

Courtney should have just called in a forfeit if the playing conditions were so dangerous like you imply. It would have saved us all the embarrassment of watching that unethical pantomime, which is going to follow those players and those coaches around forever now. It's 5 years later and we are still talking about it.
 
GLangevinito said:
In sports, "saving your energy" is not the same as what those teams did. Zero shots. 64 consecutive passes completed. Intentional turnovers. No defense.

There is no excuse for cheating and match fixing, no matter how good of an excuse you have. It violates the integrity of the sport.

Courtney should have just called in a forfeit if the playing conditions were so dangerous like you imply. It would have saved us all the embarrassment of watching that unethical pantomime, which is going to follow those players and those coaches around forever now. It's 5 years later and we are still talking about it.
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Why? Courtney's team would move on regardless. They earned the right to play the way they want to. Those were the rules of the tournament. You win big enough in the previous games compared to your other group teams, you EARN the right to suck or put no effort in the last game.

After 5 years, I'm still fine with Courtney's decision and I'm proud that those SoCal girls did so well out there during that tournament.
 
Surf Zombie said:
I just googled the video out of curiosity.

nypost.com

2 youth girls soccer teams fixed match, and it’s unwatchable

Two teams in the U.S. Youth Soccer National Championships in Frisco, Texas have been suspected of match fixing to ensure their survival in the tournament. Carlsbad Elite and Ambassadors FC entered …
nypost.com nypost.com

I’d pull my kids off the field mid game if they were doing this.
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I love how the cr is still running back and forth into position taking the responsibility seriously even though it’s self evident this has stopped resembling a real soccer game. That’s some dedication right there. I would have just parked myself at the center spot and maybe even sat down in the grass. :cool:
 
Grace T. said:
I love how the cr is still running back and forth into position taking the responsibility seriously even though it’s self evident this has stopped resembling a real soccer game. That’s some dedication right there. I would have just parked myself at the center spot and maybe even sat down in the grass. :cool:
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Does the ref have the authority to call the game before time? why waste 45 mins when after 10 it is clear they won't attack each other?
 
Well, I wasn't going to come back on this but the soccer IQ thing swiveled me. To be clear, I have no idea what game people are going on about here. The thread is (was?) pet peeves-phoning it in for game three of the group stages if you can get away with it and move on is one of mine. The most recent example that I'm aware of is from the boys U17 side of far western regionals-two otherwise good teams making a spectacle of themselves trying not to score. One hopes the college scouts the players hoped to attract did not choose to watch that one. My personal view is that it is embarrassment for an otherwise strong program and not sporting. Others obviously feel that the strategic/tactical advantages that accrue with such a philosophy of play provide a sufficient rationale for this, that and the other reason. They are entitled to their views.

The thing I wanted to say was that I do not believe that the "skill" involved in going through the motions because a game seems "pointless" cannot be, or at least should not be, considered part of what is generally thought of as soccer IQ. To me, soccer IQ has to do with the ability for a player to read a game and execute within a system of play, not to avoid the game and not execute. The issue has to do more with an underlying philosophy of play, or to not play if you can get away with it, as the case may be. YMMV.
 
MacDre said:
What’s your rationale?
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My rationale is that it is embarrassing, it’s not fair the other teams in the bracket and it’s contrary to everything I hope my kids learn from playing sports. On top of that, I’m 100% willing to pay $, travel and give up my weekends to watch my kids compete. No way am I standing around in the heat to watch that display.

If winning some little tournament is the objective why not go big? Just sand bag it and put them in a much lower bracket than they belong in and destroy everyone. Am I right?
 
Surf Zombie said:
My rationale is that it is embarrassing, it’s not fair the other teams in the bracket and it’s contrary to everything I hope my kids learn from playing sports. On top of that, I’m 100% willing to pay $, travel and give up my weekends to watch my kids compete. No way am I standing around in the heat to watch that display.

If winning some little tournament is the objective why not go big? Just sand bag it and put them in a much lower bracket than they belong in and destroy everyone. Am I right?
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I think it’s smart and it took teamwork to accomplish the game strategy. Frankly, I don’t see how it’s embarrassing, unfair, or contrary to what kids learn from playing sports.

Life is unfair and sports are a palatable way of teaching kids that. I also agree that hard work is good but I think smart work is better. Decision making is of utmost importance in soccer. I thinks it’s dumb to risk injury or death playing under adverse conditions to live up to imaginary ideals especially when one has the option not to. So, I’d be proud if my kid had the inner strength to make an unpopular decision because it was arguably the best decision under the circumstances.

My kid is in soccer to be developed in 4 areas: technical, tactical, physical, and mental. I’d argue that the strategy used falls under tactical and mental development. All the kids involved in the tournament now have a new tactical tool in their toolbox and have therefore experienced development. Others are developing mentally by learning to accept that life isn’t fair and that there’s “more than one way to skin a cat.”

Dude, do you realize that by your own admission you want these kids to run around in the heat and risk injury but you are not willing to stand in the heat and watch your kid outwit their opponent...isn’t this a double standard?

Why are y’all so anti-development?
 
MacDre said:
I think it’s smart and it took teamwork to accomplish the game strategy. Frankly, I don’t see how it’s embarrassing, unfair, or contrary to what kids learn from playing sports.

Life is unfair and sports are a palatable way of teaching kids that. I also agree that hard work is good but I think smart work is better. Decision making is of utmost importance in soccer. I thinks it’s dumb to risk injury or death playing under adverse conditions to live up to imaginary ideals especially when one has the option not to. So, I’d be proud if my kid had the inner strength to make an unpopular decision because it was arguably the best decision under the circumstances.

My kid is in soccer to be developed in 4 areas: technical, tactical, physical, and mental. I’d argue that the strategy used falls under tactical and mental development. All the kids involved in the tournament now have a new tactical tool in their toolbox and have therefore experienced development. Others are developing mentally by learning to accept that life isn’t fair and that there’s “more than one way to skin a cat.”

Dude, do you realize that by your own admission you want these kids to run around in the heat and risk injury but you are not willing to stand in the heat and watch your kid outwit their opponent...isn’t this a double standard?

Why are y’all so anti-development?
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agree with a lot that you say but I don’t think they are learning anything tactical. They can’t apply that to another game without the coach’s instruction and permission. The only thing tactically they are learning is how to obey a coach’s instructions which presumably at this level they already know how to do

As for the heat, more of the fault of the tournament for scheduling in the hottest part of the day, or if unavoidable, the teams for putting their players in such conditions in the first place. The assumption (by all parties including the ref btw who in the clip is still running his ass off) is that a game is playable

as for injury it’s also always a risk whenever the players play
 
espola said:
I have seen referees issue cautions for shirts not tucked in, so I admit it can happen. It's still nonsense.

Technical question - who gets the card?
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Arbitrary. But it’s also why a ref wouldn’t do it. Once he issues the first card the other parties have 2 choices: they can play and it’s over, or they push back (whether playing more vigorously but still pretending to play or out right challenging the ref verbally). The options in the latter have the potential to move the game out of the refs control so it’s unlikely a ref would risk it.
 
MacDre said:
I think it’s smart and it took teamwork to accomplish the game strategy. Frankly, I don’t see how it’s embarrassing, unfair, or contrary to what kids learn from playing sports.

Life is unfair and sports are a palatable way of teaching kids that. I also agree that hard work is good but I think smart work is better. Decision making is of utmost importance in soccer. I thinks it’s dumb to risk injury or death playing under adverse conditions to live up to imaginary ideals especially when one has the option not to. So, I’d be proud if my kid had the inner strength to make an unpopular decision because it was arguably the best decision under the circumstances.

My kid is in soccer to be developed in 4 areas: technical, tactical, physical, and mental. I’d argue that the strategy used falls under tactical and mental development. All the kids involved in the tournament now have a new tactical tool in their toolbox and have therefore experienced development. Others are developing mentally by learning to accept that life isn’t fair and that there’s “more than one way to skin a cat.”

Dude, do you realize that by your own admission you want these kids to run around in the heat and risk injury but you are not willing to stand in the heat and watch your kid outwit their opponent...isn’t this a double standard?

Why are y’all so anti-development?
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It was match fixing. Which is cheating. Which everyone agrees is wrong, except, apparently, a few posters on this board who see nothing wrong with it.

What we don't know is WHY Carlsbad would agree to this. To risk expulsion from the event and loss of reputation just to get a day off seems like an odd decision. You most often see this match fixing scenario when both teams are at risk of not advancing, but go through with a draw, like the TFA/Texans game at Surf Cup. Ambassadors could have parked the bus, Carlsbad could give low-effort to avoid injury, and we wouldn't be talking about it 5 years later. So, they came to an agreement that Carlsbad and Ambassadors go to the semifinals, and New York does not. Cheating. Which to you, MacDre, is "development". LOL
 
GLangevinito said:
It was match fixing. Which is cheating. Which everyone agrees is wrong, except, apparently, a few posters on this board who see nothing wrong with it.

What we don't know is WHY Carlsbad would agree to this. To risk expulsion from the event and loss of reputation just to get a day off seems like an odd decision. You most often see this match fixing scenario when both teams are at risk of not advancing, but go through with a draw, like the TFA/Texans game at Surf Cup. Ambassadors could have parked the bus, Carlsbad could give low-effort to avoid injury, and we wouldn't be talking about it 5 years later. So, they came to an agreement that Carlsbad and Ambassadors go to the semifinals, and New York does not. Cheating. Which to you, MacDre, is "development". LOL
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What is your definition of match fixing? I associate match fixing with gambling and throwing matches for financial gain none of which was present here.
 
GLangevinito said:
It was match fixing. Which is cheating. Which everyone agrees is wrong, except, apparently, a few posters on this board who see nothing wrong with it.

What we don't know is WHY Carlsbad would agree to this. To risk expulsion from the event and loss of reputation just to get a day off seems like an odd decision. You most often see this match fixing scenario when both teams are at risk of not advancing, but go through with a draw, like the TFA/Texans game at Surf Cup. Ambassadors could have parked the bus, Carlsbad could give low-effort to avoid injury, and we wouldn't be talking about it 5 years later. So, they came to an agreement that Carlsbad and Ambassadors go to the semifinals, and New York does not. Cheating. Which to you, MacDre, is "development". LOL
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While I think its kinda lame the manner in which the teams "played" the game, those two teams earned the right to play for a tie based on their performance in previous games. Both teams had control of their own destiny. Unless Vegas had a line on this game, I agree with MacDre that I don't see how this equates to match fixing.

Would I be bummed if my kid's team did this? Yes. Would I be bummed if two other teams did this and kept my kid's team out of a final? Yes. Would I make a scene and post a video on Youtube? No. Those teams earned that right. Not to justify it, but it is not that rare for this to happen, but its usually done in a more discrete manner.
 
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