New Youth Sports Guidance

[The Outlaw *BANNED*]

I heard a huge rumor this morning from a friend who is a fly on the wall at Big Club meetings. His dd is a true Unicorn as well so he gets the inside scoops. I promised him I wouldnt come on here and share the rumor. My lips are sealed.

Then what was the purpose of this... other than to tell us your daughter has a pointed cone on her head?

 

[Jose has returned]

If we want to compare other states which do things differently CNN news feed popped up with this today

260 students and 8 teachers quarantined in Georgia school district after first week of school

At least 260 students and eight teachers from a suburban school district in Atlanta, Georgia, were quarantined after multiple students and teachers tested positive for Covid-19 during the first week of school.

amp.cnn.com

California needs there own unique approach to minimizing the risks, nobody can predict what the risks are right now, it's all a guessing game. Pick wrong and the results can be pretty far reaching.

CIF took a conservative approach and pushed soccer back so has most of college sports also for now.

the risk is people will get corona. the recovery is 99.6 for healthy people. as of today. 0% of kids 0-17 have died in ca. this is contagious I've had it , it sucks, but if you are healthy you will live. If you are in a high risk group just like in boxing protect yourself at ALL times, wear your mask at ALL times even around family...im not being trite

 

[Grace T.]

There really should be some clarity and they should just announce that no competitions will occur this fall. End of story.

Yes, in terms of death and severe illness, children seem to be at an extremely low risk. But I think it's short-sighted to use that as the only barometer to assess risk to the community. We still don't know the exact transmissions rates for asymptomatic kids with some preliminary studies suggesting kids from ages to 10 to 18 spread it just as easily as adults. And with kids under 10, they've been mostly locked down for the past 6 months, so we simply don't know yet.

The concern isn't necessarily my daughter is going to die from playing an outdoor scrimmage. The concern is if she picks up COVID and becomes a asymptomatic carrier and brings it home. I have hypertension. So while my daughter is in the very low risk category, i'm definitely higher risk. Our kids don't get to play soccer in a bubble. Parents pick them up and they live at home with adults who may be older or have underline conditions. Especially in middle / lower income communities, the adults may have health conditions that are undiagnosed. So until we have more concrete data, I think it's prudent to be overly cautious.

I agree they should make the situation clear and it probably means in California no season in 2020.

There are either two possibilities in what you laid out. It is possible your daughter doesn't really love soccer, which is fine, since all kid's are different. Maybe this time will even be good for them, because it means they can discover other things they love, rather than be dragged to the soccer rat race. My son is different. First the practice shut downs, and then the school shut downs really crushed him and sent him into a full blown depression. Out in Utah, he is flourishing once again. We were either at the point where something had to change, or he had to be heavily medicated. He is passionate about soccer....lives and breathes it...and it doesn't help he's also a very high extrovert. Another relative has reacted similarly and attempted suicide 2 weeks ago.

Or maybe your daughter is really passionate about soccer, but you are asking her to sacrifice for the sake of your health. That's fine too. Everyone has to make that choice, and its very complicated. But let's be clear....by asking them to sacrifice soccer, school and socialization, we are actively hurting the younger generation for the sake of the old. That's simply not the way life usually works. And in any case, that's really a choice each individual family should make, and we should respect everyone's choice.

 

[EOTL]

I agree they should make the situation clear and it probably means in California no season in 2020.

There are either two possibilities in what you laid out. It is possible your daughter doesn't really love soccer, which is fine, since all kid's are different. Maybe this time will even be good for them, because it means they can discover other things they love, rather than be dragged to the soccer rat race. My son is different. First the practice shut downs, and then the school shut downs really crushed him and sent him into a full blown depression. Out in Utah, he is flourishing once again. We were either at the point where something had to change, or he had to be heavily medicated. He is passionate about soccer....lives and breathes it...and it doesn't help he's also a very high extrovert. Another relative has reacted similarly and attempted suicide 2 weeks ago.

Or maybe your daughter is really passionate about soccer, but you are asking her to sacrifice for the sake of your health. That's fine too. Everyone has to make that choice, and its very complicated. But let's be clear....by asking them to sacrifice soccer, school and socialization, we are actively hurting the younger generation for the sake of the old. That's simply not the way life usually works. And in any case, that's really a choice each individual family should make, and we should respect everyone's choice.

No it’s not a choice each individual family gets to make. That attitude is why more than 160k have died already. I have no respect for someone’s choice to put other people in danger. It’s the same people who are complaining who keep screwing it up.

 

[Copa9]

Did they catch COVID-19 playing soccer outside?

Have they done any meaningful trace in the last five days. Doubtful. Who came into school already infected but asymptomatic. Maybe got it playing soccer, maybe basketball, maybe softball, maybe a backyard end of summer bbq. Who knows. Therein lies part of the problem.

 

[GT45]

There really should be some clarity and they should just announce that no competitions will occur this fall. End of story.

Yes, in terms of death and severe illness, children seem to be at an extremely low risk. But I think it's short-sighted to use that as the only barometer to assess risk to the community. We still don't know the exact transmissions rates for asymptomatic kids with some preliminary studies suggesting kids from ages to 10 to 18 spread it just as easily as adults. And with kids under 10, they've been mostly locked down for the past 6 months, so we simply don't know yet.

The concern isn't necessarily my daughter is going to die from playing an outdoor scrimmage. The concern is if she picks up COVID and becomes a asymptomatic carrier and brings it home. I have hypertension. So while my daughter is in the very low risk category, i'm definitely higher risk. Our kids don't get to play soccer in a bubble. Parents pick them up and they live at home with adults who may be older or have underline conditions. Especially in middle / lower income communities, the adults may have health conditions that are undiagnosed. So until we have more concrete data, I think it's prudent to be overly cautious.

As for other states running youth competitions, a few people brought up Texas and Arizona as good examples.. I'm not sure why we're using them as good examples for running youth competitions when they've just had huge surges in cases. Our tracing system is almost non-existent, so we don't really know what the primary vectors of transmission are. It seems we're only effective at tracking hospitalizations and deaths and transmissions up to one degree of separation at this point. Yes indoor bars/clubs are high risk, but there's little data on things that might spread at a moderate/low level.

Also unlike other states, we (California) have several HUGE metropolitan areas, so the stakes are higher. We're not as dense as New York, so I din't think we'll ever see things accelerate like it did over there. But due to our huge population with diverse communities and local governments, if things go really sideways, it'll be very hard to put things back in the toothpaste. We're not like some Midwest state with 1-2 mid-size/large cities surrounded by empty space. Locking down one city basically stops their COVID cases. We have large and small communities sprawled out everywhere. In SoCal, you can't drive for more than 5 minutes and not end up in another city or community. It's why when OC restricted training for youth sports, a bunch of OC clubs flooded into the north county of SD. It's very easy for us to move around to other large communities. This means California can't have the same guidelines as Kansas or Utah. New York brought their numbers down by being extremely draconian. It sucked but it was necessary due to the high density of their population. Our overly cautious guidelines also suck, but I also think it's necessary given our population, geography, and diversity. We have to have guidelines that are suited for California, not Arizona.

I love soccer. My kids love soccer. I definitely miss watching them play. But the one upside to this situation is that my daughter has discovered other things she loves as well. The break from endless traveling, training, and tournaments has created space for her to explore other interests. The attitude of us parents can also affect our child's well-being during the pandemic. If we're constantly sulking and complaining about the unfairness of everything, then our kids will feed off that negativity and be miserable as well. Let's not define our kid's happiness by whether they can play in Surf Cup at the end of September or in Presidio/CSL/SCDSL/DPL/GDA/MLSDA/ECNL/NPL this fall. Just encourage them to still get touches and exercise but let them explore various interests that they would normally never have time to do. Focus on trying to make this fall school year at least somewhat comfortable whether it's online only or in-person distance learning, that's going to be a challenge in itself.

Just in terms of priorities with everything your child has to deal with and the uncertainty with the pandemic I think fall soccer competitions rank pretty low. Someone needs to put their big boy/girl pants on and just announce in a clear declarative sentence that every youth club will understand, "THERE WILL BE NO YOUTH COMPETITIONS IN 2020". Done. The remaining 4 months of 2020 will be focused on training with hopefully the return of competitions in 2021, which should be ample prep time for organizers and for consumer confidence to return.

Yikes. We should shut down because of your opinion? Other states are playing successfully. Look beyond your California bubble. And, yes these states have big cities playing High School soccer, club soccer, tournaments. Some are even going back to school in the classroom. Yet, you think we should all shut down now for the next 5 months? It is a choice. Your daughter can sit out regardless of what the rest of us choose to do. No one is making you do it.

 

[Mic Nificent]

You’re right of course. Unfortunately for us in CA, weighing up risk and using common sense seems to have completely disappeared.

For anyone not glued to the mainstream media, it’s clear that this issue runs way deeper than the safety of kids. That’s why we won’t be playing games here anytime soon.

For those outside of LA County, it sounds like kids can now practice without masks so they can engage in meaningful, intense soccer training. That’s at least something positive. Hopefully for those of us within LA County, we are also afforded that ‘luxury’ soon and the sight of kids in masks, in their own ‘lanes’, tapping the ball side to side, disappears.

Plenty of posters on this forum have already mentioned that this is an opportunity for youth players to really work on their game individually; IMO it’s a necessity, not an option. For players who don’t truly love playing and don’t want to do the individual work to maintain their touch, sharpness and fitness, maybe this is the ideal time to move on to another sport or interest.

Or keep playing but at a lower level. Many different levels of soccer to fit everyone’s work ethic and dedication. Some kids just like playing for fun and don’t care about maximizing their potential on the pitch.

 

[Darbfig]

Yikes. We should shut down because of your opinion? Other states are playing successfully. Look beyond your California bubble. And, yes these states have big cities playing High School soccer, club soccer, tournaments. Some are even going back to school in the classroom. Yet, you think we should all shut down now for the next 5 months? It is a choice. Your daughter can sit out regardless of what the rest of us choose to do. No one is making you do it.

If that’s what you got out of reading his/her post then you should probably re-read it. And, heor she isn’t the only one who wishes they would just call the season because of all the back and forth with shutdowns etc., it’s very frustrating for parents and players. I’ve read other people post just call it and focus on whatever training is allowed. You’re entitled to your decision for your kids of course, but unfortunately if people continue to do whatever the hell they please we’re never going to be able to get the kids to play.

 

[The Outlaw *BANNED*]

No it’s not a choice each individual family gets to make. That attitude is why more than 160k have died already. I have no respect for someone’s choice to put other people in danger. It’s the same people who are complaining who keep screwing it up.

It's also house party goers, protesters and professional athletes that can't stay out of strip clubs for 10 minutes.

 

[lafalafa]

Have they done any meaningful trace in the last five days. Doubtful. Who came into school already infected but asymptomatic. Maybe got it playing soccer, maybe basketball, maybe softball, maybe a backyard end of summer bbq. Who knows. Therein lies part of the problem.

Does say either but 7 high school age teenages on that team and they where quarantine, tested, etc

Galaxy suspend training as 11 from USL team test positive for coronavirus

The Galaxy have suspended training and increased COVID-19 testing after 11 members of its USL Championship affiliate tested positive for the virus.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Eusebio]

But let's be clear....by asking them to sacrifice soccer, school and socialization, we are actively hurting the younger generation for the sake of the old.

I don't think it's as black and white as that. If I get extremely sick, that's going to affect my ability to provide for my family and my daughter. And if I die from COVID, well that would definitely negatively impact my daughter in a very long lasting way. So I can't just willy nilly sacrifice my health because I'm old and my daughter is young. From a functional standpoint, my daughter relies on me maintaining my health until she's self sufficient, never mind the emotional implications.

That said, I totally feel where you're coming from and every child and family dynamic is different. It's obviously difficult for everyone but how a child copes with the lack of school, soccer, and socialization will vary from one child to the next. Which means parents will make personal choices to handle their own unique challenges.

But when it comes to team sports, group events, and etc, guidelines have to be created with the lowest common denominator in mind. For example any given soccer team may have parents with ages anywhere from 30 - 55. Some also have grandparents who are heavily involved in either pickup/dropff or child care. These people are critical in the child's life and they can't just be "sacrificed". So when constructing guidelines and policy, it has to have both the child's safety in mind and their support system. It's not about some distant nursing home. If we're putting the child's support system at moderate or high risk, then the child is at risk as well. It's that aspect that gets overlooked when people debate the restrictions.

Some things like this can't be dictated purely by parental choice. Because of the Rat Race of competitive youth sports, too many parents will sign a waiver and unknowingly put their kid's (or teammate's) support system at risk, so they don't fall behind and the clubs who need to make money will also encourage this. Grace, it sounds like you properly assessed the situation for your son and your family. But there may be those who take unnecessary risks to avoid falling behind even though their kid's support system might be fragile. There's also the issue of kids still showing up to training/games even though they or someone in their family is sick. The youth guidelines have to account for this with team sports, knowing there will never be 100% compliance and yet they have to protect the child's safety and their support system.

 

[Dargle]

Does say either but 7 high school age teenages on that team and they where quarantine, tested, etc

Galaxy suspend training as 11 from USL team test positive for coronavirus

The Galaxy have suspended training and increased COVID-19 testing after 11 members of its USL Championship affiliate tested positive for the virus.

www.yahoo.com

The players on the GII were not quarantined like the senior team players. They were only quarantined after they tested positive

 

[Paul Spacey]

Or keep playing but at a lower level. Many different levels of soccer to fit everyone’s work ethic and dedication. Some kids just like playing for fun and don’t care about maximizing their potential on the pitch.

Agreed; more power to the kids who play for fun and just want to have a smile on their face.

I was referring to the fact that the majority of members here seem to have kids who are serious about the game; those kids need to be practicing individually and this is a great test for how much they truly love playing, that’s all. No judgement for any kid who just wants to have a bit of fun or even those who want to quit playing; it’s an individual choice.

 

[Grace T.]

I don't think it's as black and white as that. If I get extremely sick, that's going to affect my ability to provide for my family and my daughter. And if I die from COVID, well that would definitely negatively impact my daughter in a very long lasting way. So I can't just willy nilly sacrifice my health because I'm old and my daughter is young. From a functional standpoint, my daughter relies on me maintaining my health until she's self sufficient, never mind the emotional implications.

I’ll agree it’s not black and white. The thing that makes this really tough is except for the very old this is not a killer virus. If it were it would be easy and we’d shut it all down. It’s also not the flu and in some unknown % of people has serious long term health issues. Add to that we all value risk differently and it’s a tough tough situation. The debate really centers on who should make that decision and I always err on treating people like adults capable of weighing the risk for themselves and their children.

 

[Keepermom2]

There really should be some clarity and they should just announce that no competitions will occur this fall. End of story.

Yes, in terms of death and severe illness, children seem to be at an extremely low risk. But I think it's short-sighted to use that as the only barometer to assess risk to the community. We still don't know the exact transmissions rates for asymptomatic kids with some preliminary studies suggesting kids from ages to 10 to 18 spread it just as easily as adults. And with kids under 10, they've been mostly locked down for the past 6 months, so we simply don't know yet.

The concern isn't necessarily my daughter is going to die from playing an outdoor scrimmage. The concern is if she picks up COVID and becomes a asymptomatic carrier and brings it home. I have hypertension. So while my daughter is in the very low risk category, i'm definitely higher risk. Our kids don't get to play soccer in a bubble. Parents pick them up and they live at home with adults who may be older or have underline conditions. Especially in middle / lower income communities, the adults may have health conditions that are undiagnosed. So until we have more concrete data, I think it's prudent to be overly cautious.

As for other states running youth competitions, a few people brought up Texas and Arizona as good examples.. I'm not sure why we're using them as good examples for running youth competitions when they've just had huge surges in cases. Our tracing system is almost non-existent, so we don't really know what the primary vectors of transmission are. It seems we're only effective at tracking hospitalizations and deaths and transmissions up to one degree of separation at this point. Yes indoor bars/clubs are high risk, but there's little data on things that might spread at a moderate/low level.

Also unlike other states, we (California) have several HUGE metropolitan areas, so the stakes are higher. We're not as dense as New York, so I din't think we'll ever see things accelerate like it did over there. But due to our huge population with diverse communities and local governments, if things go really sideways, it'll be very hard to put things back in the toothpaste. We're not like some Midwest state with 1-2 mid-size/large cities surrounded by empty space. Locking down one city basically stops their COVID cases. We have large and small communities sprawled out everywhere. In SoCal, you can't drive for more than 5 minutes and not end up in another city or community. It's why when OC restricted training for youth sports, a bunch of OC clubs flooded into the north county of SD. It's very easy for us to move around to other large communities. This means California can't have the same guidelines as Kansas or Utah. New York brought their numbers down by being extremely draconian. It sucked but it was necessary due to the high density of their population. Our overly cautious guidelines also suck, but I also think it's necessary given our population, geography, and diversity. We have to have guidelines that are suited for California, not Arizona.

I love soccer. My kids love soccer. I definitely miss watching them play. But the one upside to this situation is that my daughter has discovered other things she loves as well. The break from endless traveling, training, and tournaments has created space for her to explore other interests. The attitude of us parents can also affect our child's well-being during the pandemic. If we're constantly sulking and complaining about the unfairness of everything, then our kids will feed off that negativity and be miserable as well. Let's not define our kid's happiness by whether they can play in Surf Cup at the end of September or in Presidio/CSL/SCDSL/DPL/GDA/MLSDA/ECNL/NPL this fall. Just encourage them to still get touches and exercise but let them explore various interests that they would normally never have time to do. Focus on trying to make this fall school year at least somewhat comfortable whether it's online only or in-person distance learning, that's going to be a challenge in itself.

Just in terms of priorities with everything your child has to deal with and the uncertainty with the pandemic I think fall soccer competitions rank pretty low. Someone needs to put their big boy/girl pants on and just announce in a clear declarative sentence that every youth club will understand, "THERE WILL BE NO YOUTH COMPETITIONS IN 2020". Done. The remaining 4 months of 2020 will be focused on training with hopefully the return of competitions in 2021, which should be ample prep time for organizers and for consumer confidence to return.

I usually don't read long posts but this post was so well said and I couldn't agree more.

 

[timbuck]

There really should be some clarity and they should just announce that no competitions will occur this fall. End of story.

Yes, in terms of death and severe illness, children seem to be at an extremely low risk. But I think it's short-sighted to use that as the only barometer to assess risk to the community. We still don't know the exact transmissions rates for asymptomatic kids with some preliminary studies suggesting kids from ages to 10 to 18 spread it just as easily as adults. And with kids under 10, they've been mostly locked down for the past 6 months, so we simply don't know yet.

The concern isn't necessarily my daughter is going to die from playing an outdoor scrimmage. The concern is if she picks up COVID and becomes a asymptomatic carrier and brings it home. I have hypertension. So while my daughter is in the very low risk category, i'm definitely higher risk. Our kids don't get to play soccer in a bubble. Parents pick them up and they live at home with adults who may be older or have underline conditions. Especially in middle / lower income communities, the adults may have health conditions that are undiagnosed. So until we have more concrete data, I think it's prudent to be overly cautious.

As for other states running youth competitions, a few people brought up Texas and Arizona as good examples.. I'm not sure why we're using them as good examples for running youth competitions when they've just had huge surges in cases. Our tracing system is almost non-existent, so we don't really know what the primary vectors of transmission are. It seems we're only effective at tracking hospitalizations and deaths and transmissions up to one degree of separation at this point. Yes indoor bars/clubs are high risk, but there's little data on things that might spread at a moderate/low level.

Also unlike other states, we (California) have several HUGE metropolitan areas, so the stakes are higher. We're not as dense as New York, so I din't think we'll ever see things accelerate like it did over there. But due to our huge population with diverse communities and local governments, if things go really sideways, it'll be very hard to put things back in the toothpaste. We're not like some Midwest state with 1-2 mid-size/large cities surrounded by empty space. Locking down one city basically stops their COVID cases. We have large and small communities sprawled out everywhere. In SoCal, you can't drive for more than 5 minutes and not end up in another city or community. It's why when OC restricted training for youth sports, a bunch of OC clubs flooded into the north county of SD. It's very easy for us to move around to other large communities. This means California can't have the same guidelines as Kansas or Utah. New York brought their numbers down by being extremely draconian. It sucked but it was necessary due to the high density of their population. Our overly cautious guidelines also suck, but I also think it's necessary given our population, geography, and diversity. We have to have guidelines that are suited for California, not Arizona.

I love soccer. My kids love soccer. I definitely miss watching them play. But the one upside to this situation is that my daughter has discovered other things she loves as well. The break from endless traveling, training, and tournaments has created space for her to explore other interests. The attitude of us parents can also affect our child's well-being during the pandemic. If we're constantly sulking and complaining about the unfairness of everything, then our kids will feed off that negativity and be miserable as well. Let's not define our kid's happiness by whether they can play in Surf Cup at the end of September or in Presidio/CSL/SCDSL/DPL/GDA/MLSDA/ECNL/NPL this fall. Just encourage them to still get touches and exercise but let them explore various interests that they would normally never have time to do. Focus on trying to make this fall school year at least somewhat comfortable whether it's online only or in-person distance learning, that's going to be a challenge in itself.

Just in terms of priorities with everything your child has to deal with and the uncertainty with the pandemic I think fall soccer competitions rank pretty low. Someone needs to put their big boy/girl pants on and just announce in a clear declarative sentence that every youth club will understand, "THERE WILL BE NO YOUTH COMPETITIONS IN 2020". Done. The remaining 4 months of 2020 will be focused on training with hopefully the return of competitions in 2021, which should be ample prep time for organizers and for consumer confidence to return.

How many kids had a chance to try tubing / wakeboarding / waterskiing this summer? My kids did.

 

[Keepermom2]

If that’s what you got out of reading his/her post then you should probably re-read it. And, heor she isn’t the only one who wishes they would just call the season because of all the back and forth with shutdowns etc., it’s very frustrating for parents and players. I’ve read other people post just call it and focus on whatever training is allowed. You’re entitled to your decision for your kids of course, but unfortunately if people continue to do whatever the hell they please we’re never going to be able to get the kids to play.

Also....the indecisiveness of how school will proceed as well as soccer can add more stress on the kids who are already dealing with the other stresses that this pandemic has provided. I have tried to inform my DD how we will proceed if X happens and if Y happens and when decisions will be made. I took soccer out of the mix for a variety of reasons and determined for myself the 20/21 season is over for her age so she can focus on improving her skills through private training which she loves and she can know what to expect for the next 6 months.

 

[GT45]

M

If that’s what you got out of reading his/her post then you should probably re-read it. And, heor she isn’t the only one who wishes they would just call the season because of all the back and forth with shutdowns etc., it’s very frustrating for parents and players. I’ve read other people post just call it and focus on whatever training is allowed. You’re entitled to your decision for your kids of course, but unfortunately if people continue to do whatever the hell they please we’re never going to be able to get the kids to play.

My issue is with parents who want to make decisions for all of us. "Just shut it down." If you don't like what is going on don't play this season. We don't need the negative ones dictating for the rest of us. Simple really.

 

[GT45]

I don't think it's as black and white as that. If I get extremely sick, that's going to affect my ability to provide for my family and my daughter. And if I die from COVID, well that would definitely negatively impact my daughter in a very long lasting way. So I can't just willy nilly sacrifice my health because I'm old and my daughter is young. From a functional standpoint, my daughter relies on me maintaining my health until she's self sufficient, never mind the emotional implications.

That said, I totally feel where you're coming from and every child and family dynamic is different. It's obviously difficult for everyone but how a child copes with the lack of school, soccer, and socialization will vary from one child to the next. Which means parents will make personal choices to handle their own unique challenges.

But when it comes to team sports, group events, and etc, guidelines have to be created with the lowest common denominator in mind. For example any given soccer team may have parents with ages anywhere from 30 - 55. Some also have grandparents who are heavily involved in either pickup/dropff or child care. These people are critical in the child's life and they can't just be "sacrificed". So when constructing guidelines and policy, it has to have both the child's safety in mind and their support system. It's not about some distant nursing home. If we're putting the child's support system at moderate or high risk, then the child is at risk as well. It's that aspect that gets overlooked when people debate the restrictions.

Some things like this can't be dictated purely by parental choice. Because of the Rat Race of competitive youth sports, too many parents will sign a waiver and unknowingly put their kid's (or teammate's) support system at risk, so they don't fall behind and the clubs who need to make money will also encourage this. Grace, it sounds like you properly assessed the situation for your son and your family. But there may be those who take unnecessary risks to avoid falling behind even though their kid's support system might be fragile. There's also the issue of kids still showing up to training/games even though they or someone in their family is sick. The youth guidelines have to account for this with team sports, knowing there will never be 100% compliance and yet they have to protect the child's safety and their support system.

You are concerned about your ability to provide for you child. What about the coaches ability to provide for their children? If you are at risk, your daughter should probably sit this season out.

 

[espola]

M

My issue is with parents who want to make decisions for all of us. "Just shut it down." If you don't like what is going on don't play this season. We don't need the negative ones dictating for the rest of us. Simple really.

I agree with your last sentence.