Say bye-bye-bye to Girls and Boys DA

[dawson]

In simple terms :
If we don't open up the economy soon , tens of millions will be impacted in the near future when we have :

a major economic depression.
more unemployed
more people going into debt
more people losing their homes
more people having trouble buying food from no income
more scarcity of food available from lack of production and distribution
More people who have nothing to do
more people going into depression
more people turning to drugs and alcohol and suicide resulting in more deaths and mental health problems
more people turning to crime , resulting in more deaths
more people protecting what they have , resulting in more deaths
riots breaking out , resulting in more deaths
government stepping in to protect us all with temporary authoritarian tactics , resulting in more deaths and less freedom
government making their authoritarian tactics permanent because they know whats best for us , resulting in more deaths and less freedom.

you cannot eliminate risk in life
you cannot just consider the short term consequences of your actions relating to death
you have to also consider the long term consequences of your actions relating to death

By waiting too long to open the economy we may have many more deaths from the long term consequences then deaths from the short term.
And we may be risking our freedom for ourselves, our children , our grand children and generations to come .

I personally am in a high risk category for the virus.
Regardless of what others choose to do.
I can always choose to shelter in home and do social distancing , if I feel that is the best for me,
I don't think we should take away the freedom of others to provide for their family , live a free
life and perhaps put their lives and their freedom at risk in the future because of our short term thinking now .


We have fought wars for our freedom .
History says that there are always people willing to take your freedom away , usually for your own good or just because they can.
There was a quote during the revolutionary war that said " give me liberty or give me death ".
Freedom is important.

 

[MSK357]

I have already said that many old people can’t just “stay quarantined”, and explained why. Even the White House can’t keep it out.

You are denying the reality that what you want will lead to a lot more dead people. You don’t want to acknowledge the inevitable result of what you want because it is too bitter a pill to swallow. I suspect you are pro-life, because the only way to reconcile that with reopening the economy right now is to deny that what you want will kill anyone. A lot of pro-lifers are doing that. You’re in good company.

WTF? you don't make any sense. You need to be a little more clear on why old people cant stay quarantined. explain. Is it because they have to work to live? Well there are lot of people that need to work to live that can't right now. Is it because they need assistance? Well who will be giving that assistance? people that need to go out and work obviously, whether that's through healthcare of financial assistance. why cant you see that we can do both. South korea did both. They quarantined those that were at risk and kept the country open. Why is that so hard to see? your explanation has no logic. We literally have a blueprint to beat this without ruining the economy in south korea.

 

[MSK357]

Two reasons it won't work is because Korea population is way smaller than the US and the US and Korea are very different culturally. Americans are so against wearing masks while in Korea before covid they all had masks and wore them. Plus, Americans are so against allowing government intervention as stated by Jose. I mean we are the only country to protest and ignore all social distancing protocols that the rest of the world is following (Orange County), even though we have examples (Italy and NY) of what happens to health systems if it spreads too fast. We do need to open up eventually and we will but I think people are just getting impatient and it is understandable. Just because something works in another country does not mean it will work here.

Fair assessment, except there was a shortage of masks in south korea, the donated millions of them to china before it got to their country. But yes, culturally they are different, and they have experience in dealing with pandemics. but you are basically saying lets not try what works because we haven't done it before. I say lets try what works because it works. the less than 1% fatality rate based on antibody tests makes me comfortable doing it as well. Those at risk can stay inside and quarantine themselves just like south korea did.

 

[EOTL]

The government does this all the time.

We have drafted millions and sent them off to war as one example to in theory benefit the 90% who didn't go off to fight.

That is exactly what I am saying. Just like when the government decides that going to war to protect freedom, or oil, or whatever justifies sacrificing lives, you have decided that people also need to be sacrificed for the sake of the economy. Why is it so hard to accept the reality of that decision?

 

[EOTL]

In simple terms :
If we don't open up the economy soon , tens of millions will be impacted in the near future when we have :

a major economic depression.
more unemployed
more people going into debt
more people losing their homes
more people having trouble buying food from no income
more scarcity of food available from lack of production and distribution
More people who have nothing to do
more people going into depression
more people turning to drugs and alcohol and suicide resulting in more deaths and mental health problems
more people turning to crime , resulting in more deaths
more people protecting what they have , resulting in more deaths
riots breaking out , resulting in more deaths
government stepping in to protect us all with temporary authoritarian tactics , resulting in more deaths and less freedom
government making their authoritarian tactics permanent because they know whats best for us , resulting in more deaths and less freedom.

you cannot eliminate risk in life
you cannot just consider the short term consequences of your actions relating to death
you have to also consider the long term consequences of your actions relating to death

By waiting too long to open the economy we may have many more deaths from the long term consequences then deaths from the short term.
And we may be risking our freedom for ourselves, our children , our grand children and generations to come .

I personally am in a high risk category for the virus.
Regardless of what others choose to do.
I can always choose to shelter in home and do social distancing , if I feel that is the best for me,
I don't think we should take away the freedom of others to provide for their family , live a free
life and perhaps put their lives and their freedom at risk in the future because of our short term thinking now .


We have fought wars for our freedom .
History says that there are always people willing to take your freedom away , usually for your own good or just because they can.
There was a quote during the revolutionary war that said " give me liberty or give me death ".
Freedom is important.

Dude, I hear everything you are saying. You have decided that the benefit of reopening the economy is worth sacrificing the lives of a lot of mostly old people. I’m not even questioning your cost/benefit analysis,just the fact that you are refusing to acknowledge that you are making one that means people will die. You are sayjng many old people need to die for the sake of your wallet and others.

 

[MSK357]

That is exactly what I am saying. Just like when the government decides that going to war to protect freedom, or oil, or whatever justifies sacrificing lives, you have decided that people also need to be sacrificed for the sake of the economy. Why is it so hard to accept the reality of that decision?

why is it so hard to accept you don't have to sacrifice lives for the economy? Protect the old and sick, the young and healthy can work. All while maintaining the same social distancing. That's what they did in south korea. That has nothing to do with testing or masks or any other excuse people try to use on why korea was different.

 

[happy9]

Dude, I hear everything you are saying. You have decided that the benefit of reopening the economy is worth sacrificing the lives of a lot of mostly old people. I’m not even questioning your cost/benefit analysis,just the fact that you are refusing to acknowledge that you are making one that means people will die. You are sayjng many old people need to die for the sake of your wallet and others.

No worries bruh, we'll just let cali be cali. Maybe what will happen is all of the smart people will eventually leave, populate AZ, NV, NM, allowing for a monumental shift in the ECNL SW conference. Clubs will move to where the money is. No need to travel to cali for anything. Just let cali do it's thing, see ya in 2-3 years.

 

[MSK357]

Dude, I hear everything you are saying. You have decided that the benefit of reopening the economy is worth sacrificing the lives of a lot of mostly old people. I’m not even questioning your cost/benefit analysis,just the fact that you are refusing to acknowledge that you are making one that means people will die. You are sayjng many old people need to die for the sake of your wallet and others.

that's not what people are saying, that's definitely not what I am saying. But even if it was, it sounds like you are against some people dying so that more can live. Why do you want more people to die?

 

[SoccerGuru]

Fair assessment, except there was a shortage of masks in south korea, the donated millions of them to china before it got to their country. But yes, culturally they are different, and they have experience in dealing with pandemics. but you are basically saying lets not try what works because we haven't done it before. I say lets try what works because it works. the less than 1% fatality rate based on antibody tests makes me comfortable doing it as well. Those at risk can stay inside and quarantine themselves just like south korea did.

50 million vs 325 million, will be extremely difficult to implement what Korea did in a timely fashion. Also, it would only work if majority of the people followed the rules and we both know that won't happen. Americans are too rebellious, thats good sometimes bad other times.

 

[whatithink]

It is important to figure out a way to gradually reopen the economy in a responsible way while continuing to protect (medically & financially) those most vulnerable. The example of the ice cream parlor that closed because people were completely irresponsible jerks is an example of the potential problems. I don't know what that way is, but the US approach is for crap. It requires a federally mandated approach because this is one country, not 50. It needs to be coordinated and managed, not uncoordinated and mismanaged. The richest country in the world has managed to have the most infected and most dead.

In the scheme of things any contact sport shouldn't even be contemplated - socially distant practices, but no scrimmages or games.

Kid: What's that field?
Parent: That's where you play soccer.
Kid: What's that field?
Parent: That's where we buried your grandparents.

 

[Desert Hound]

That is exactly what I am saying. Just like when the government decides that going to war to protect freedom, or oil, or whatever justifies sacrificing lives, you have decided that people also need to be sacrificed for the sake of the economy. Why is it so hard to accept the reality of that decision?

I don't have a problem dealing with the decision.

We have to open up.

And those that need to be away from others can self quarantine

 

[Surf Zombie]

ECNL GIRLS ANNOUNCES NEW ADDITIONS TO THE ECNL REGIONAL LEAGUE - OHIO VALLEY FOR 2020-21 SEASON

Elite Clubs National League – Regional Leagues are operated and managed by the ECNL to insure professionalism, standards, and exceptional experience RICHMOND, VA (May 11, 2020) – The Elite Clubs National League Girls is excited to announce the addition of three new clubs to the ECNL Girls...

www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com

Added former GDA club Cleveland Force to the Regional League.

 

[dad4]

I don't have a problem dealing with the decision.

We have to open up.

And those that need to be away from others can self quarantine

Except it doesn’t work.

If quarantining the vulnerable were effective, nursing homes would be safe now. They aren’t.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

So let us kill off millions of small biz instead?

Let us put millions into bankruptcy?

Because what we are doing now is exactly that.

Social distancing is not stopping the spread of the virus. The virus is not going to magically go away. The idea behind social distancing was to "bend the curve", not eradicate the virus. A vaccine is 18 months away if we are lucky. They may never have a good vaccine. Who knows.

I think many have the false assumption that social distancing somehow gets the virus to go away. It is not.

So what does the quarantine do and not do?

- it doesn't stop the spread of the virus
- it simply slows down the spread.
- it does nothing to protect the people who are not at risk
- the people still at risk are still getting the virus
- we are putting millions of biz and people out of work.
- many of those jobs are not coming back

Personally I just shut down one of my businesses. It is not coming back. Those employees are not getting their jobs back. Now multiply that across the country.

Tax revenue is crashing. That tax revenue funds countless things at the local, state and fed level. State and local pensions? Schools, etc etc. What will many of these gov entities want to do? Raise taxes to attempt to cover their expenses. Probably not a good time to put more financial burdens on individuals and biz

Opening up restaurants at 25% or even 50% capacity will not work for most restaurants. Margins are thin in that industry and you need to be running at full capacity for most to make it. So lets look at them for example.

- short term, not all staff is working since 25-50% capacity means you don't need everyone.
- less money or no money for those employees with others getting laid off.
- the restaurants don't require as much food, booze, beverages.
- that then pushes the problem down the entire supply chain.
- those businesses in the supply chain have to cut down biz and cut staff as a result of reduced demand.

Take the above and now apply that to a variety of different biz/industry.

Then consider the debt these various individuals and businesses have. When they cannot pay, that then affects the companies, etc who hold the debt. Many of those will go under and those employees are out of work.

The government doesn't have enough money to bail out all industry and give people cash to sit at home.

The implications of what we are doing to our economy and how it affects everyone is staggering.

It is madness to kill the economy in such a manner. To wipe out biz, to wipe out the life savings of individuals, etc.

Find the solution to deal with the at risk population vs a one size fits all option that devastates millions of biz and 10s of millions of individuals.

Further.

We lose 650K a year to heart disease
600k to cancer.

We don't shut down the entire economy as a result of the above. We deal with it and move on. We may never get a vaccine for covid and we certainly cannot wait around 18 months hoping that in that window of time something pops up vaccine wise. We know who is at risk and who isnt. The focus should be on how to minimize the risk for those at risk vs devastating the lives of most in the US who have a very very low risk factor.

We need to consider the health risks of isolating. Many will die due to the social isolation.

Social isolation, loneliness in older people pose health risks

Social isolation and loneliness can affect the physical and mental health of older adults, including those with cognitive impairment. Read about research on risk factors and solutions.

www.nia.nih.gov

A projected 75,000 "deaths of despair".

A Projected 75,000 ‘Deaths Of Despair’ Could Result From Coronavirus Pandemic Impact

The isolation, unemployment, fear and dread related to the COVID-19 pandemic could lead to 75,000 deaths of despair.

www.forbes.com

 

[Desert Hound]

If quarantining the vulnerable were effective, nursing homes would be safe now. They aren’t.

So if quarantine doesn't work as you say, why continue to do it?

 

[dawson]

Dude, I hear everything you are saying. You have decided that the benefit of reopening the economy is worth sacrificing the lives of a lot of mostly old people. I’m not even questioning your cost/benefit analysis,just the fact that you are refusing to acknowledge that you are making one that means people will die. You are sayjng many old people need to die for the sake of your wallet and others.

Let me clarify :

I am one of those old people and my opinion has nothing to do with my wallet.
I do put a strong value on protecting the lives and the future of people younger then me.
I also put a strong value on freedom and I do read history and in my opinion freedom could be at risk.
Can I not have an opinion without someone intentionally turning it around and saying it is based on greed as a way to
diminish my opinion. Which is that if the economy tanks very bad things will happen.

You do not know me and I don't know you. But ( as you did with me ) perhaps I should read your mind and assume you have a bad motive. Thus I will
assume you must want the economy and our country to tank so that opportunities will develop for a Fascist, authoritarian government
to gain control . And be dammed with the people who die in the process , the misery it will cause and the freedom we could lose. I also must figure that you think you will be part of the new fascist government and are supporting our collapse for the sake of your lust for power.

 

[EOTL]

why is it so hard to accept you don't have to sacrifice lives for the economy? Protect the old and sick, the young and healthy can work. All while maintaining the same social distancing. That's what they did in south korea. That has nothing to do with testing or masks or any other excuse people try to use on why korea was different.

Go back and look. I have not expressed an opinion. All I did was point out that’s the choice you want to make but don’t want to acknowledge. If I support re-opening the economy, I will admit that it comes with the price of a lot more dead old people and some who aren’t.

We cannot do what S Korea did, it is far too late and demographically impossible. Saying “let’s do what S Korea did” is just another excuse for those who want to reopen the economy to avoid responsibility for the results of that decision. It’s just more blaming others and washing our hands if the guilt when it doesn’t work because “we didn’t do what s korea did and could have prevented all those dead people”. People will die because of what you want to happen. Just admit you’re ok with that.

 

[dad4]

So if quarantine doesn't work as you say, why continue to do it?

From here, quarantine seems to be working.

San Jose used to have an average daily growth rate of 20%.
Now the daily growth rate is about 1%.

What more proof do I need? The high growth rates for CA are where people were protesting instead of following the rules.

Seems like we would be close to done if everyone would just put on a mask and limit shopping trips to one day per week.

Shopping one day per week helps make sure you are not a disease vector. That way, if you get infected on Monday, you don’t infect someone else on Wednesday. You wait a full week to find out whether you are sick.

 

[EOTL]

Let me clarify :

I am one of those old people and my opinion has nothing to do with my wallet.
I do put a strong value on protecting the lives and the future of people younger then me.
I also put a strong value on freedom and I do read history and in my opinion freedom could be at risk.
Can I not have an opinion without someone intentionally turning it around and saying it is based on greed as a way to
diminish my opinion. Which is that if the economy tanks very bad things will happen.

You do not know me and I don't know you. But ( as you did with me ) perhaps I should read your mind and assume you have a bad motive. Thus I will
assume you must want the economy and our country to tank so that opportunities will develop for a Fascist, authoritarian government
to gain control . And be dammed with the people who die in the process , the misery it will cause and the freedom we could lose. I also must figure that you think you will be part of the new fascist government and are supporting our collapse for the sake of your lust for power.

Wow, that’s pretty crazy. Fascism? Lust for power?
WTF are you talking about?

Funny, I’ve never said I’m against re-opening the government. I’ve only pointed out that it comes with a price, which is a lot of dead old people and some others. The reason all of you are so freaky about it is that you don’t want to acknowledge the obvious, which is that getting what you want will lead to a lot more people dying. You want the benefit of re-opening the economy but don’t want to acknowledge the effect of getting what you want. I don’t know you, but I get the impression you made the same cost/benefit analysis as it relates to gun control.

All of you are incredibly defensive because you don’t want any responsibility for the fact that what is good for your wallet comes at the expense of many lives.

 

[EOTL]

From here, quarantine seems to be working.

San Jose used to have an average daily growth rate of 20%.
Now the daily growth rate is about 1%.

What more proof do I need? The high growth rates for CA are where people were protesting instead of following the rules.

Seems like we would be close to done if everyone would just put on a mask and limit shopping trips to one day per week.

Shopping one day per week helps make sure you are not a disease vector. That way, if you get infected on Monday, you don’t infect someone else on Wednesday. You wait a full week to find out whether you are sick.

Hold on. A lot of old people dying is the price of freedom. And freedom requires that I be allowed to shop, eat and work whenever and however I want. I don’t want to only go to the mall, and the grocery store, and the hardware store, and my kid’s soccer practice, and work, and the park one day a week. I don’t care if I kill some old people because I didn’t buy enough Doritos and beer to last the week. Like I said, price of freedom! Unless someone wants an abortion. They can’t have that.