Your opinions have always been a little odd. I hope no one takes you too seriously.
Recruiting Tips for Parents Just Starting the Process
- Thread starter MakeAPlay
- Start date
2 Ps in a pod
Was going to say until JAP shows up someone needs to carry the mantle. Then I though no.
Not arguing but what we've learned is not what's stated herein.
For Ivy's and other private top 20, the recruiting class requires Academic Index (AI) average of 200 (or equivalent of AI, since not every school uses it). Composition of AI is the two SAT components (or ACT), two SAT Subject test scores, unweighted GPA. Based on what we've seen, GPA of 3.6 and 600 each will not get you close to 200. There is an agreement within Ivy League, we've been told, that states athletes will be representative of institution's student bodies and not be the exceptions from it. They have many rules above and beyond NCAA rules, including recruiting and engagement time allowed for sports.
Clearly, since its an average, some can to be lower, but it also says some needs to be higher, if that's the case. EVERY coach we've spoken with look for higher AI so that they have margin to recruit lower AI player. In other words, being on the lower end (below average AI) does not help and makes the player less attractive. Yes, if one is exceptional, they'll try to make the lower AI work somehow but at this level of competition for those 6~8 slots/school, everyone is quite exceptional.
@mirage sounds like you are more current than when I was looking and recently I had only talked to one Ivy. I had not heard the term given to AI but certainly I know it is a combo they look at.
My 3.6 number and 600 was stated as a low bar, not an average, and not ridged. It is what coaches say, not what Admin does. In the maybe 20 school coaches I have talked to, none have asked for higher than that to get in. I have only spoken with a few schools admin folks, but as we can see what admin actually does that seems less important than what a coach says.
But you (not mirage you - the general you, should have said ya'll but I'm not Southern) can use actual facts to assist in what you look for.
The actual 25 percentile can be found in the Common Data Set (posted about above - section C9). You can see what they actually do vs what they say they do. I don't know how to get an AI number from the Common Data Set because the SAT/ACT and grades are listed separately and we don't know which pair go together, but it is good enough to know they do dip lower - for somebody. It may even be a question to ask the coach - "Hey you guys let in 3.7% last year that have reading SATs in the 500s, some in the 400s - who are they?" (actual for Stanford - http://ucomm.stanford.edu/cds/2015, similar for Harvard). So what I am saying is there is a chance for an SAT in the 400s, in any area, to get into Stanford or Harvard. It is likely not a soccer player.
It was interesting to me, and a point of pride that my DD's incoming year 2012 the 25 percentile achievement (ACT) ND was higher than any DI. The average, and top were not (so the others have smarter), but who they actually let in and how low they dipped was (so the others also had lower achievers). And it was only true on the achievement side, not the aptitude side (SAT). I had been looking at the difference between the 25 and 75 percentiles that are published and thinking that a wide gap might mean the athletes are less respected. DD heard that is the case at some schools. The thought you are here because you are a jock... While not a major criteria for DD, she did pick a school were the ACT delta between 25th and 75 was only 2-3 points vs some schools where it was much more.
My 3.6 number and 600 was stated as a low bar, not an average, and not ridged. It is what coaches say, not what Admin does. In the maybe 20 school coaches I have talked to, none have asked for higher than that to get in. I have only spoken with a few schools admin folks, but as we can see what admin actually does that seems less important than what a coach says.
But you (not mirage you - the general you, should have said ya'll but I'm not Southern) can use actual facts to assist in what you look for.
The actual 25 percentile can be found in the Common Data Set (posted about above - section C9). You can see what they actually do vs what they say they do. I don't know how to get an AI number from the Common Data Set because the SAT/ACT and grades are listed separately and we don't know which pair go together, but it is good enough to know they do dip lower - for somebody. It may even be a question to ask the coach - "Hey you guys let in 3.7% last year that have reading SATs in the 500s, some in the 400s - who are they?" (actual for Stanford - http://ucomm.stanford.edu/cds/2015, similar for Harvard). So what I am saying is there is a chance for an SAT in the 400s, in any area, to get into Stanford or Harvard. It is likely not a soccer player.
It was interesting to me, and a point of pride that my DD's incoming year 2012 the 25 percentile achievement (ACT) ND was higher than any DI. The average, and top were not (so the others have smarter), but who they actually let in and how low they dipped was (so the others also had lower achievers). And it was only true on the achievement side, not the aptitude side (SAT). I had been looking at the difference between the 25 and 75 percentiles that are published and thinking that a wide gap might mean the athletes are less respected. DD heard that is the case at some schools. The thought you are here because you are a jock... While not a major criteria for DD, she did pick a school were the ACT delta between 25th and 75 was only 2-3 points vs some schools where it was much more.
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S
Sped
Guest
I have to know why...?
For these schools, I would also encourage requesting (1) a "likely letter" from the admissions offices, and (2) an early read of the school's financial aid. The coach has a good sense for admissions, but you can be confident that the coach vetted it with the admissions office if you get the likely letter. The Ivys also have a matching financial aid system - which is pretty spectacular these days. The best offer you receive will be matched by the other schools. The general belief is that HYP provide the best packages so even if you are interested in say, Columbia, get a financial aid offer from an HYP school so that Columbia has to match it.
I attended SDSU and I saw it as the best local choice. Creighton was suggested by one of my son's coaches, their major fall sport is soccer (no football), and they had given a soccer friend a full-ride scholarship. On the other hand, my wife saw USD as the best local choice. We got more or less equivalent offers from SDSU and USD. Creighton didn't respond until he had already committed to UC Davis - they might have had the inner track if they had been active sooner.
My son wanted to get out of town. Davis was near to where his girlfriend was going to school (San Francisco State), and he had several friends there. Financially, the Davis offer was about the same as from SDSU and USD, so I had no issue with his choice. The school has excellent academics and a small-town atmosphere just across the street. The first day we visited there, as soon as I stepped out of the car near his friend's on-campus apartment I could smell the cow barns down the street, which reminded me of where I grew up.
Davis worked out well for him in a soccer sense - he missed only 6 games in 4 years. When he needed 2 extra quarters to get his degree, the Athletic Department gave him an hourly job that netted about the same as his scholarship. He now has a job and apartment in San Francisco that make me jealous.
I vetoed UCLA because I was afraid he would get lost in their big athletic program, and UCSB because of the reputation of its coach. It made me happy that 2 of his goals were game-winners against UCLA and UCSB.
MakeAPlay
DA
Congrats on your daughter getting called into the U17 trip to Brazil! The kids enjoy those international trips. Let's hope that BJ is really serious about opening up the GK job. He called in 5 keepers and has made some changes recently so she has a solid chance to make the team.
They are playing Brazil in Michigan.
http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/u17-wnt-roster-for-friendlies-vs-brazil_aid39525
Not sure you want to head to Brazil to play friendlies when the Olympics are going on. Michigan is a better choice.
Thanks! its actually in Michigan, and they are playing friendlies with Brazil. Who know whats in store for her? We thought he had his mind made up but apparently between injuries, etc., anything could happen!
f1nfutbol fan
SILVER
I am very happy that this thread exists / was created. Go socalsoccer forums!
Zerodenero
GOLD
FF1 - Here's an informative read we used as a guideline. Grades/aptitude + athletics + any other qualities that set your kid apart from the pack = opprotunity - best of luck!!
https://play.google.com/store/books...US&gclid=CMDc48Xym84CFQtvMgod21ACsg&gclsrc=ds
MakeAPlay
DA
It is not worth it if you don't think that your kid can compete. To honestly advocate that kids shouldn't take a rigorous course load in order to prepare for college is ludicrous. Maybe it's not worth it if your kids eyes are set on Arizona St. or Grand Canyon but if they are trying to get into Yale, Stanford, Duke or another top school the coaches demand academic rigor. Even Mallory Pugh took calculus this past year.
I am repeating myself but if you have not looked at the Common Data Set for the schools you are interested in you are not past step 1. Do that.
A's in AP Calc A/B and 2300 SAT will not get your kid the opportunity (acceptance rate) at an Ivy (or similar) that an ECNL player (or equivalent) with an AP Calc B and 1,800 SAT.
Sure - all Bs, a few Cs and they are likely out. But give me academic HS rank 5%-30% starting ECNLish player over academic rank 1%-2% any day for getting in.
A's in AP Calc A/B and 2300 SAT will not get your kid the opportunity (acceptance rate) at an Ivy (or similar) that an ECNL player (or equivalent) with an AP Calc B and 1,800 SAT.
Sure - all Bs, a few Cs and they are likely out. But give me academic HS rank 5%-30% starting ECNLish player over academic rank 1%-2% any day for getting in.
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I didn't think it mattered how smart my DD was (in a certain range) - that was/is my point. Find a school where kid is at least 25th percentile - that is a whole bunch of schools for most SoCal soccer families.
And we never spoke of it in the application process. We knew, Randy Waldrum (coach) knew talking to her and it did not need to be discussed other than to say "they're fine".
Could she have been accepted without soccer - stats say less than 50%.
With soccer - she applied to just one school.
While I'm not opposed to sharing my DD's calc grades (or any others), she really was not interested in math. We did not use grades for getting into college, we used soccer.
And we never spoke of it in the application process. We knew, Randy Waldrum (coach) knew talking to her and it did not need to be discussed other than to say "they're fine".
Could she have been accepted without soccer - stats say less than 50%.
With soccer - she applied to just one school.
While I'm not opposed to sharing my DD's calc grades (or any others), she really was not interested in math. We did not use grades for getting into college, we used soccer.
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Zerodenero
GOLD
Make: I might be redundant here, but I think there's merit to both and It really depends on what the end game is.
Uncommitted parents:
If a kid is a STUD on the field but but a DUD in the class....obvi the Ivys or top tier academic D3's are out......but also the Dukes/stanford/ucla/Virginia/Mich/ND are prob not a good fit.
The good news is that there are many good universities/college options for girls across the academic spectrum. We've found it to be about finding the right fit (academically, emotionally, geographically, demographically, financially). Which is why doing a triage of investigation and thorough due diligence about your college is so very important.
As Z has clearly described, for many parents on this forum.....soccer is the golden ticket to get your kid to the front of the line - Find the right line.
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MAP believes that unless your kid is a Power5 conference commit (and takes calculus in HS) with an athletic scholarship she is as worthless as a dung pile. She also believes if your DD is uncommitted as a freshman you are a failure as a parent and should have your DD quit playing soccer.