GK flight 1/ECNL/GA
- Thread starter Ljohnso8
- Start date
Yes. It’s not uncommon and depends in part on the coach. It’s also not just the higher levels of play (I’d actually guess the higher you go above rec the less it happens though it’s still pretty prevalent in all but the academy tiers). Has happened to my kid twice in his career and to countless friends and training partners. Issue is usually the kids (at least on the boys side) and parents need someone to blame. It’s certainly not going to be their kid so it turns on whether the coach has managed expectations by telling them what is actually happening. Most of them have very low soccer knowledge let alone goal keeping knowledge
the reality is until you get to the very older boys and the boys have learned to properly extension dive the gk cannot cover the entire goal and the overwhelming majority of the girls because of height and weaker athleticism will never get there. 1v1s are at best a 50/50 proposition unless the team is playing down a positional level. The save rate on a cutback into the second zone is less than 33%. The save rate for girls on pks is less than 5% the higher you go. So if you are getting a lot of shots or creative plays or pks the reality is stuff is going to go in. More shots means more goals. But the expectation of the parents players and some coaches is that they’ll stop everything. It’s not reality particularly if other teams can just bang it over their heads (which for the boys doesn’t stop til 14-15)
so don’t feel bad. It happens. Nothing you can do. Politics. Good coaches will note there are certain things at the higher levels your gk can control: are they catching as opposed to dropping? Is their dive technique and jump height getting better? Are they defending their box on crosses or are they timid? If the coach plays the modern game are they defending the space (which if the team is bad could lead to even more breakaways and lobbed shots)? Are their 1v1s concurrent with the level of the league? Does the gk communicate to prevent the breakaways and the defenders are just ignoring her? How’s the gks distribution? The question isn’t whether The team is winning or losing but how the gk performs relative to the level. If there’s a question have a nonclub gk coach evaluate her frankly. Otherwise control what you can control and just roll with it. It’s the nature of the position. If it’s toxic move and due to the gk shortage on the girls side it’s easier to move than the boys.
Some. You have to take out the 50% of the teams that are winning, the coaches that understand the position and manage the expectations, teams with just a jell culture, teams with an active GK coach on staff that can defend the GK, those teams that can put the blame on someone else (such as an injury or the coach gets canned), teams with 2 GKs, the higher level teams where (with certain exceptions) it happens much less often. The competition on the boys side is very fierce. On the girls side if she's of quality until you get the to the ECNL level it's generally easier to get a position so there's less of a scramble due to the shortage.
p.s. there's a downside to being on the most winning teams too. First, it's harder to break into them since GKs have a tendency to park there and unless your player can beat that goalkeeper on all 4 legs of the stool (technical, tactical, physical and mental) it's very hard to dislodge since coaches tend to not want to shake up something that's working. But as they get older it's harder then to get highlight footage if they aren't facing many shots, they aren't developing as much because they aren't seeing the situations they need to make mistakes in, and eventually (whether it be surf cup or playoffs) they'll face opponents they aren't ready for (except obviously for the GK on the championship team).
If they are younger one trick is to have them play down a level. The placement for college looks doesn't matter. They look like superstars since even if the team is losing they are among the top 3 or 4 players on the team so they can't be blamed. Parents are appreciative of the magic they bring. My kids happiest times and longest running with a team was with his second bronze level team.
In 3 tournaments offensively we only scored 5 goals. In all nine group play games we never lost by more than 2 goals as my DD being the GK. On the eve of the next tourney coach brings in a guest GK due to his perception of my DD lacking focus and starting to ‘hurt’ the team I.e. giving up goals and she was benched. Now imo our defense kept us in the games and the offense didn’t execute. Any thoughts was this warranted or is this a ‘toxic’ environment? She was cut from her previous flight 1 team during tryouts and her old team performance is the same or maybe even a little worse. This is what I refer to GK being blamed on team non performance. Nonetheless, was the benching warranted despite keeping games close?
it’s impossible to tell without looking at the entirety of her performance including what type of shots she’s letting in (eg balls through her hands v cutbacks) and how she plays with her feet. You seem to be asking is the coach crazy or am I? Take her to a reputable goalkeeper coach outside the club and have the gk coach evaluate the various aspects of her game if there’s doubt. Some like Jeff Tackett offer game review services if you have video.
For example (from personal experience) let’s say your kid is experimenting with building from the back and sweeping. While learning the kid is going to make mistakes and if the team has weaknesses the team might give up more chances against them so if the gks save rate is 70% theyll still give up 3 goals for every 10 shots on target. But it’s because the kid is learning and doing some advanced stuff. The coach could bring in a keeper that has a 50% save rate but sits on her line and boots every ball but therefore only gets 2 shots against her per game.
by toxic the question is how are the coach, players and parents treating her. If it’s bad and will shoot her confidence move. If she wants the challenge of being there when the other kid stumbles stay.
Evaluating goalkeepers can be difficult, evaluating how good your own keeper is can be even harder. Parents can be mean when it comes to criticism. Considering every player makes mistakes on the field should mean parents would have a better understanding and empathy for when a goalkeeper makes a mistake, but it doesn't happen because a goal is given up when a keeper makes a mistake and the parents only care about winning.
My college freshman daughter had her first intra squad scrimmage that I watched. It was the starters vs reserves. She and the reserves lost 3-0. 9 of the 10 freshman made up the reserve team. She made 4 great saves and a few easy ones, but gave up three goals, 2 scored by girls that beat the defense and got inside the 6 for their shot, the 3rd one was a great pass for a breakaway shot and scored from about 12 out. The senior captain keeper didn't have to make a single save. As her parent I wish she had saved one of the two shots from inside the 6, but they are tough saves to make. Which keeper performed better? Going off the score the A team keeper. The A team dominated the B team and the other keeper didn't have to do anything. My daughter had a great workout, with many touches with her feet besides all the shots. Her communication was great, as was her positioning. Keeper coach and head coach were happy with her performance and know what they are doing.
My daughter has never had a head coach that really knew what she was doing and never gave praise, until now in college. She did find a good keeper trainer that she would go to 2-3 times a week and that was huge. So find a keeper coach that will help her grow and get better. Find a team where she enjoys playing with the team. Drop a level if need be and work back up as her skills and confidence get better.
My college freshman daughter had her first intra squad scrimmage that I watched. It was the starters vs reserves. She and the reserves lost 3-0. 9 of the 10 freshman made up the reserve team. She made 4 great saves and a few easy ones, but gave up three goals, 2 scored by girls that beat the defense and got inside the 6 for their shot, the 3rd one was a great pass for a breakaway shot and scored from about 12 out. The senior captain keeper didn't have to make a single save. As her parent I wish she had saved one of the two shots from inside the 6, but they are tough saves to make. Which keeper performed better? Going off the score the A team keeper. The A team dominated the B team and the other keeper didn't have to do anything. My daughter had a great workout, with many touches with her feet besides all the shots. Her communication was great, as was her positioning. Keeper coach and head coach were happy with her performance and know what they are doing.
My daughter has never had a head coach that really knew what she was doing and never gave praise, until now in college. She did find a good keeper trainer that she would go to 2-3 times a week and that was huge. So find a keeper coach that will help her grow and get better. Find a team where she enjoys playing with the team. Drop a level if need be and work back up as her skills and confidence get better.
Code
SILVER ELITE
Don't wait for a specific time of year, or event (tryouts), to look for a better environment for your player. If something is off, or the team isn't right for your player, it likely will not change over time. Do your research on the teams and clubs within your acceptable driving range; find some options that are within the range of your players level of play. Go watch those teams play, find out what events they are at that you are already attending, call the coach and go watch practice; be close enough to hear the coach, you are evaluating the coach, and the players. If you attend a practice and there are parents, talk to them, they will give you a feel for the team dynamics. No need to drag your player around or even get them involved until you identify some good possibilities. Then talk to the coach about getting in some practice time with the team so your player can give you feedback on what they like don't like about the team. Be aware that once your player attends a practice somewhere else, everyone (your coach, club, TM) will know, it is a small world, and somehow everyone will know before you even get home from the practice. Be discrete and straight forward, don't burn bridges; bad Coaches and Clubs will burn them for you.
The most frustrating part is when the goal doesn't even come as a result of a mistake. Sometimes it's a limitation....for example the ball over the kids head and the kid is just simply not tall enough and the jump strong enough to get that ball no matter how much you train the scenario. The parents will still complain. Then there's the nothing you can do about it scenarios even if you are pro male. Things like DFKs where the ball goes over the wall and hits the top corner. Or a 1 v 1 where you do everything right, aren't timid, take your space, don't jump too early, but the striker just finds that slot even a pro can't cover in the far or near post. The criticism from the parents still comes. Nothing you can do about it. If the team is giving up too many of those opportunities eventually (unless the coach steps in to stop it) the pitchforks come out.
Every keeper has mistakes, limitations, and stuff even the pros can't do things about. The problem is that 50% of them are on winning teams and haven't been found out (yet). The only ones that are really somewhat immune to it (and so we can assume a kid who is in that situation isn't one of them) is GKs who are in the top 5-10% of their league. Those GKs are also probably the top 1-3 players on their respective teams, and it also probably means the GK could be playing at a higher level (or if they are at the highest level, they are a professional/national team prospect).
Did the coach specifically say that your DD is lacking focus and or the reason for team non-performance? Did he make any keeper training suggestions? Does your daughter have any physical limitations such as height? What age group is this?
Generally (95% of the time), it's the entire team's fault when a goal happens. However, if a ball is booted by the goal keeper or opposing CB over your own CB's head, then- what happens after might only be a goal keeper's issue.
The only time I've ever felt that a goalie is at fault is...if the goalie consistently makes bad decisions when passing it out of the back, holds onto the ball way to long which allows all his/her teammates to get marked up, booting it to the wrong team or to a player who's surrounded by opponents. If your goalie is doing this often, then the teams might be right because no matter how good your team is, they can't attack if they can't get/possess the ball. Attacks start with the goalies and defending starts with the forwards.
There are a few toxic parents on every team that blames the goalies but if you find that most players on EVERY team your goalie has played on is blaming the goalie...there might be something there and your goalie needs to work on scanning the field more and playing quicker. The other stuff like cutting off angles vs go in after the ball is too tough to hold against youth goalies.
RandomSoccerFan
GOLD
Blaming the goalie exclusively for all goals because they are right in front of it is absurd - of course the rest of the team usually bears their own fair share of what went wrong that led to the goal scoring opportunity. But absolving the goalie of all blame because it's a shared responsibility is equally absurd. If the coach is taking the goalie aside pretty much every game or two to talk about specific and impactful goalie errors (some similar to sockma's examples above, and others that most would probably agree to be even more basic/fundamental), the team may very well have a legitimate issue with that particular goalie. For what it's worth, one of our teams is in that position right now. Much of the rest of the team has gotten to a level of play / level of maturity, that the long-time goalie has not kept up with and it gets more obvious as the months go by. Locking in rosters for a year as the leagues get higher can make both recruiting/retaining/replacing a goalie a delicate and challenging situation.
A lot of the examples you bring up are actually coaching issues:
-my kids preference is to float at the 25 to intercept balls over the top. Have had coaches tell him to implement a low defensive block. If he doesn’t get the ball over the defensive line in that situation that’s not on him. If he’s been told to play high and the mids lose it center field for a lobbed shots that’s also not on him
-he’s had coaches that have yelled at him for playing it quick and told him to let the team set up. He’s had other coaches yell at him for trying to play it too slow
-the booting into a 50/50 is more often than not a situation where the coach has demanded it be booted but has not shown the players be open. He’s had one coach tell him never boot it.
If anything the distribution instructions are one thing the coach should know and what the gk does is entirely dependent on what the rest of the team does. If the coach has an issue that’s on him/her most likely, unless the gk is either defying instructions or is incapable of executing
Btw it’s an easy fix nowadays for the team having possession of the ball to start the attack under the new goalkick rules. Play it short to the cb in the box. If the team is giving away possession and can’t make the attack forward it’s because they are incapable on building from the back in the level they are playing. If the coach wants the long option too the proper response is for the cb to draw pressure and then send it. If the coach is having an older routinely send it in this day and age straight off the goalkick that’s on the coach.
Ps the cutting off angles and getting loose balls is something which is almost entirely on the gk unlike the distribution. At the highest level for the girls and at the highest levels for the boys, olders, that’s on the gk. All the third level high school boys know the basics.
From my observations, the distributions made should be based on what the goal keeper sees while they are in the field and will differ based on how the opposing team plays their pressure points. If they press high, you bypass your backs and put it through to the open mids. If they don't press high, then the ball should go to the backs. When a goalie sees a great 1v1 up to, it should go there too.
The thing is, these are not coaching decisions, they're player decisions. Coaches generally yell or direct these because the goalie isn't making good decisions based on the time available and the matchup. A good goalie doesn't wait for your coach to tell you to boot it if your forward is much faster than their backline and your team is down with only 15 minutes left to go. A good goalie will recognize the need to do it. If your CB is being picked easily, then you need to bypass them.
I've never seen a coach tell a goalie what to do when the goalie is making good decisions based on the match situation except those joystick ones that always do.
Agreed that at the "highest level" they are expected to do these things and that's what differentiates them from lower level goalies. However, I disagree with your distribution logic. Distribution by goalies is a measure of their soccer IQ and their field scanning.