I agree. What is the pay to play club soccer system in America? It’s one big soccer cult. Full of suckers! Thanks.
Women's CONCACAF World Cup Qualifying
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MacDre
PREMIER
@GoldenGate & @Happened again, I think the both of you have misconstrued @NorCalDad position. Y’all have got Dude chasing non sequiturs and neither of you have addressed his complaint.
Dude is complaining about all the “bully ball” and the lack of basic fundamentals. This is not about athleticism or lack there of. This isn’t about access to college. Dude is talking about a lack of basic fundamentals. (emphasis added).
My kid defines bully ball as: players being allowed to attack the player instead of the ball, shoulder barging, and pushing with both hands.
Dude is complaining about all the “bully ball” and the lack of basic fundamentals. This is not about athleticism or lack there of. This isn’t about access to college. Dude is talking about a lack of basic fundamentals. (emphasis added).
My kid defines bully ball as: players being allowed to attack the player instead of the ball, shoulder barging, and pushing with both hands.
Your writing skills are amazing. Reading comprehension, on the other hand, needs some work.
I bet if you look at the bios of coaches at various clubs you will eventually find one with something like "TOVO Academy Coaching Course Certificate". It will be right after any USSF or UEFA accreditations a coach might have. To be clear "many" does not equal "most" or "all". Also, as I said, I have no idea if coaches that received said certificate actually put that training to use. The spin cycle we're in might just make that too difficult to do.
outside!
DA
I am guessing you either haven't been around long or weren't paying attention during the formation of ECNL and it's exclusionary tactics, the conflicts between US Club Soccer and USYS, the birth and death of DA or how individuals high up in ECNL became high up in USYS to oversee the death of DA (not that I was a fan of DA). The facts are that upper level youth soccer is monopolistic and forces unnecessary travel costs on families and by doing so excludes potentially high level players. CSL Premier was a better system and I believe would produce a larger quantity of high level female soccer players.
It's time to just lay it all out today. We need a new league in Socal. I would call it, "Southern California Possession League." SCPL is for players who want to learn the game the right way. Somehow Bullyball, Smashball and Kickball took over and I know why. We would have best the best and girls would be safe and learn how to play the game. The rest of the best can go play in the Elite Club National League and travel all over the country. I see a light at the end of the tunnel. Gr8t stuff @MacDre. I see you bro 
GoldenGate
GOLD
You have not identified a single corrupt anything by anyone. You also don't understand what a monopoly is. You also seem to fail to understand that no one is forcing anything on you. All you're doing is whining that you can't have everything you want without having to pay what it costs to have it. If the CSL Premier that you loved so much were a better system, it would be the better system. Instead, it was a cheap ass structure that suppressed the ability of the best youth clubs to hire and retain quality professional coaches, which also suppressed the ability of parents to maximize their kid's soccer ability to leverage into college opportunity. But no fear, the cheap-ass local leagues you love still exist, so you have nothing to worry about - other than the best and most committed families and coaches no longer continue propping up the riff raff.
You can add lack of creativity and usage of IQ.
GoldenGate
GOLD
No, I understand quite well what he is saying. This whole idea that girls kiddie soccer is rampant with "bully ball" and lacking in fundamentals compared to other countries is utter nonsense. There are far more youth clubs in the US than anywhere else in the world that are committed to high level development of players. Seriously, there isn't a single person here who has been able to name a single foreign youth girls coach in the entire world who is better than any of a number of coaches here. I doubt they can even name two youth clubs in the entire country of Spain that aren't shit compared to probably 30 clubs in the US. They all live in a fantasyland in which they think European countries are a utopia for excellence in youth soccer, because they don't see what any of it is really like. They whine about pay to play but have nothing to say when they learn that TOVO costs 20,000 euros, and girls youth academies actually cost 16,000 euros. They have nothing to say when they learn that there are a grand total of maybe twenty 20-year old Spanish women playing competitive soccer, but 10,000 American women.
The truth is there will always be little girls who attack a player instead of the ball, or shoulder barge, or push with both hands. This will happen everywhere in the world where kiddie soccer is played, including where this TOVO nonsense exists. The reason is that soccer is - and should be - accessible at all levels. Especially at lower levels, you will always have players who don't share the same sensibilities as the soccer cheapskates here who want everyone to play "beautiful" soccer but don't want to pay what it costs. The other truth is that "bully soccer", as these emotionally soft people characterize it, is not a real problem in elite youth girls soccer. Occasionally kids get crunched, and that is life playing sports. If you want to bubble wrap your kid, go for it. But if they're whining that Macario cleaned their daughter's clock, or Blues punished their kid's team physically, or Rodman "mugged" their little princess of the ball, too bad. That isn't a bullying, it isn't a lack of development, it is only tough and effective soccer. If their kids can't take it, they can go ahead and play like the Spanish losers who constantly get bullied on set pieces by real "technical" players who understand that taking advantage of their physical ability is far more important than passing the ball around until everyone gets bored to death.
GoldenGate
GOLD
Maybe it's you that's too cheap to experience good coaching
You don't have to go to the TOVO Academy/Institute to experience the methodology. They have training programs for coaches (remote and local) that are reasonably priced. Many coaches in the US have done just that (whether or not they implement the methodology is a different question) TOVO isn't the be-end-be-all for soccer training, but it shifts the mindset to focus on decision making and less time on repetitive brain dead drills that a lot, if not most, coaches implement.
Of course I wouldn't expect you to know this as you have no idea what you're talking about. Did you get a chance to watch some games on youtube? Let me know how that goes.
Yes, I watched a few games on youtube. Specifically, the USWNT beating the shit out of just about everyone they have played over the course of a decade. Also watched Spain gets its ass handed to it by England and Germany.
When do you think the girls youth soccer utopia of Spain will finally capitalize on the TOVO training - that its army of youth coaches each paid 5,000 euros for - with its first ever knockout stage win in a tournament? There is no better way to prove the effectiveness of a training program than results, right? If only American youth soccer coaches could teach skills like how to repeatedly fail on set pieces and in the air, how to repeatedly turn the ball over after boring everyone to death with 20 useless ineffective passes around the back, and how to take the alpha out of the player.
If only meanies like Ertz, and Horan, and Lloyd, and Mewis, and Sauerbrunn, and Dahlkemper, and Macario, and Rodman, and Press, and Morgan, and Rapinoe would just play more polite "beautiful" soccer instead of using their superior athletic ability to actually get things done. If only we could take away their will to win by subjecting them to 17 modules of online TOVO at $2,000 a pop.
MacDre
PREMIER
GoldenGate
GOLD
No. Go watch Spain get "bullied" by England and Germany on headers that led to goals in their two Euros losses. You will see. You may as well be asking Chris Dudley to box out Shaq. Google that when you're done watching Spain helplessly flail against physically superior opponents. But it's not just headers. Spain repeatedly gets outworked and muscled off the ball by bigger, stronger faster opponents when it matters. There is no amount of "technical skill" to make up for a relative lack of athleticism. And Spain will never have the athletes because girls youth soccer there is crap.
outside!
DA
You have not refuted a single one of my arguments. I don't have time to look up the boards of directors of various organizations from years past and unfortunately I am not good at remembering names. Before DA, Surf was the only ECNL club in SD county and Surf teams rarely played the top local teams because when they did, they were not dominant. ECNL/Surf were an effective monopoly in SD County. That story was repeated in other parts of the country. Of course once GDA was formed, ECNL let in lots of clubs in desperation. ECNL is just lucky GDA was poorly managed (and CSL for that matter). The battle between ECNL and GDA was nothing more than a turf battle between grumpy old men with grudges against one another and many players got caught in between. The success of any club or team has more to do with the players than they get credit for.
You also have not offered any defense for all the unnecessary travel other than to insult people that are not fortunate enough to afford the costs.
For the record, I do think the USWNT is the best in the world and and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future. As you say, we have a huge advantage of numbers. I just think US women's soccer could be even better if we provided a more inclusive environment for a greater percentage of our population.
It does matter if you disagree or agree with "it'. It will always disagree with you.
I have cut GG also known as EOL or to us all POS off for some time. However, I think GDA is still better than ECNL for a few simple principles. Skip the HS argument, it is BS. For so many reasons! GDA had a plan that encouraged creative and intelligent soccer,. Those few individuals that created it left for different ventures. Those that came in to run US Soccer either wanted to cut costs or disagreed with DA. I can name them later. They had an agenda. ECNL runs on a shoe string. Does not really hold anyone accountable for anything, ever! GG don't bother responding. I dont give a shit and can't see if you did. Outside repesct you. But, I see the game being managed outside (no pun intended) from what it should be and not what is now.
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GoldenGate
GOLD
You accuse youth soccer of being corrupt but can't point to a single instance of corruption by a single person because you're not good at names? I see.
I have defended the amount of travel in ECNL many times whiner. The amount of travel in ECNL is absolutely the perfect amount of travel. How do I know that? Because ECNL is wildly successful, and because there are many, many other options available to everyone at every price point if they don't want to pay what it costs. Because showcases provide kids with opportunities to be seen and recruited by colleges all over the country. Because traveling is fun up until it is too much. Because families who can't afford a little travel don't have any business engaging in an indulgent activity they can't afford. You may as well be whining that it is unfair that every household in America doesn't have a free Steinway in the parlor, that they don't even have a parlor.
I love how people like you keep claiming soccer should just be more inclusive. Sure, Ferrari dealerships should also be more inclusive and just pass them out like candy to poor people too, right? In reality, youth soccer exists at every conceivable price point, but playing elite girls soccer is an expensive indulgence because elite professional training at anything costs a lot of money, whether it soccer, piano, equestrian or whatever. What you really mean is that you you don't want to pay for what things cost. But gosh, if only the US were like that soccer utopia of Spain, where high level training costs 20,000 euros at TOVO and 17,000 at Malaga.
GoldenGate
GOLD
I see you are still bitter that someone spent two years telling you exactly why GDA would fail, and then it did.
GDA had a plan that encouraged creative and intelligent soccer, eh? What a crock of shit.
So much wrong in here I don't even know where to begin:
- Perhaps you don't think the girls side is capable of learning more sophisticated ways to play the game or even just build up the fundamentals as @MacDre pointed out. Maybe you don't think girls have the coordination or have brains big enough to handle the complexities of real soccer systems, In other threads it seemed like you've been a big advocate of equality, maybe I've had the wrong read on you this whole time. I personally see soccer as one of the great equalizers between the genders.
- Maybe you also don't care that the girls side has a much higher rate concussions than the boys side. Maybe you just want to see a bunch of "alphas" collide and beat the crap out of each other. Who knows, maybe you're also a huge fan of MMA/UFC.
- People can complain about "pay-to-play" and not have an issue with the actual cost. I actually don't have a massive problem with the model, mostly because I don't see a better option in the US right now. That said, there are side effects to this model that aren't great. Fundamentally, decisions are made based on financial gains/loses and not what is in the best interest of the player and sport. That makes sense, these clubs are businesses in the end, even if they are "non-profit" organizations.
- Who's paying 20k euros for TOVO on these forums? Did I miss something?
- If/when European woman's leagues start to surpass NWSL average attendance and actually become money makers, I think that is when things will get interesting.
- You clearly haven't watched any of the U14 and older girls ECNL games on youtube. Let me know if you want me to send you some links. There's no shortage of them.
GoldenGate
GOLD
Let me get this straight. You spend your time watching youtube videos of 13 year old girls playing soccer, and it makes you upset that so many of them aren't playing it as well as you'd like? Are you serious? No one has ever claimed that little girls are less capable than little boys about learning "the complexities of real soccer systems" btw. What I am telling you is that it is a ridiculous goal for little girls to endeavor to be better soccer players and waste their time maximizing their "cognitive" understanding of the "complexities" of the "beautiful game." They have piano lessons, horse lessons, summer camp, school, boyfriends and/or they just don't give a s**t. But you want them spending countless hours every week on the TOVO program and soccer drills that maximize their "cognitive" understanding of the "beautiful game"? For what? So that there are 10,000 really great American female soccer players vying to fill the same 15 slots that make more than $30,000 a year playing it?
You seem to think there is one purpose for playing little kiddie soccer and that every family in America should share it, which is that every little girl in America should be the best possible soccer player they can be. It obviously makes you sad that so many little girls just won't put in the time, effort and expense necessary to become soccer players to your satisfaction. But the truth is they have lives and soccer is a really fucking stupid thing for a girl to spend so much time and money on in a country of opportunity like the US, with the exception of two girls in every birth year on average in the entire country who will grow up to be USWNT prospects. And, as it turns out, those two and many more do quite nicely the way things currently work in the US, given that the USWNT is the freakin' bomb.
Why is it so important to you that more little girls "need" to be better soccer players? Why is it so important to you that more parents need to share your neurosis? Kiddie soccer in the US is just fine. Those who want to be the best soccer players they can be have that opportunity, and the US already excels at producing more of the best female players in the world than any other country. Those who want to be good enough to leverage it into college but are realistic that professional soccer is a really stupid aspiration have that opportunity. Those who want to play for fun have that opportunity. I really think you need to take a step back and ask yourself what you're doing if you're spending your time watching 13 year old girls play soccer on youtube and upset that they aren't good enough for you.
outside!
DA
Why do you insist on calling people you disagree with names? You don't know a thing about me. Are you incapable of carrying on a civil conversation?
I am not a fan of the European model for developing youth soccer players since the ones that don't make it or have career ending injuries can be left with few options.
I get it, you don't have any empathy for skilled players that cannot afford ECNL travel. The facts are, there are great players that fall through the cracks and are missed opportunities for US Soccer to make the game more popular and create more opportunities for all players.