U-15 Girls National Training Camp Kansas October 6-9

End of the Line

SILVER ELITE
I'm going to bite and say most of what you've written is nonsense. The gap is closing because the US has focused almost exclusively on the athletic nature of its athletes.

"Players who have the best technical ability and vision, but are lesser athletes, are always a losing recipe at the highest level on the women's side"

What hope have we got moving forward if we really believe this?
I love the "gap is closing" argument. You do know the USWNT right now is the most dominant it has ever been relative to the rest of the world? You know it's lost one game (a friendly) in more than two years? You know it's won two consecutive World Cups, the only time the U.S. has ever done so?
 

Sunil Illuminati

SILVER ELITE
I love the "gap is closing" argument. You do know the USWNT right now is the most dominant it has ever been relative to the rest of the world? You know it's lost one game (a friendly) in more than two years? You know it's won two consecutive World Cups, the only time the U.S. has ever done so?
Like anyone else fixated on athleticism. I wouldn't expect you to see it.
 

Justus

GOLD
I love the "gap is closing" argument. You do know the USWNT right now is the most dominant it has ever been relative to the rest of the world? You know it's lost one game (a friendly) in more than two years? You know it's won two consecutive World Cups, the only time the U.S. has ever done so?
I'll take a bite on this too :) My dd was recruited for one year by RR as 10 year old. Some make fun but Blues did it all in the open. All clubs not named ECNL were pissed back then. TB would step in and finalizes his new cycle. TB has only coached 5 teams in 35 years and the current one is #6. Amazing if you ask me. Both coaches never once sold "TC" or "YNT" to my 11 year old. They sold one thing: To be the best soccer player possible and human being. When you reach majority around 14-15 and you haven't been cut yet, then we talk about the future for Big Time D1 College. They also recruit a certain type of female athlete which is their choice. So much hate for a club and one man who does it all out in the open. The Gap is not closing at all, the door is shut! The new Philosophy is in full swing. From former Netherlands Director:
U.S. Soccer Director of Talent Identification – Girls’ Mirelle van Rijbroek is leading the training camp, assisted by U-17 WNT head coach Tracey Kevins (English) and the three Girls’ Talent Identification Managers: Katie Cole (Central Region), Diane Drake (East) and Marieke Laurens (West).

The training camp aims to introduce the players to YNT principles as well as expand the pool of 2005-birth year players before the U-15 Girls’ National Team undertakes international competition next year and moves up to the U-17 age group in 2021.

Twenty-three states are represented on the roster with the most players, 19, coming from California.

YNT Principles? Can someone with knowledge on this please explain what she means here. I'm afraid all these woman have no clue on the SoCal Social life or life in Ohio or Michigan for that matter. "No HS Soccer or else they say!!!" It's amazing we have no American woman helping our girls navigate through all this shit and confusion on the West Coast and from what I hear in other states. 08 and 09 dads don't know what to do either. Can we add some red white and blue to our YNT team coaches please and also keep coaches who run Big Clubs now out of the YNT coaching gig too, just my two cents on that.

Expand Pool-
Very, very good idea. I would add 60 more and open it up to the other states :)

23 States only-
I guess were almost at 50% of the states represented. It's hard to cover all the states so let's see how things improve for all the other states before we judge

19 Cali-
I want to be proud here but I feel other states are being left out so I don't like that. I like sharing with others and a battle of the fittest too.

12 SoCal-
20% shows how dominant we truly are. This is the Mecca of all things Youth Soccer.

U17 YNT- I will 100% be rooting for the USA to win this for sure. I will be the first to come on here and say I was wrong and I will eat my words if we win it all. I promise I only I want the Americans to win all the time, regardless who makes the team. I will never, ever root for another country, ever. I will not watch if our girls are not playing to win. Good luck ladies and always know Justus will be rooting this team on :)
 

End of the Line

SILVER ELITE
I have to disagree that US Soccer knows that it's doing when it selects youth players. There are thousands of girls playing soccer out there and there is no way those representing the YNT are the "best, most powerful athletes" of all players in the US (Haley Mace is a case in point, completely overlooked by US Soccer until she played for UCLA). They may be the "best, most powerful athletes" of a very very small sampling (i.e. mostly DA clubs), but they are not the best, most powerful athletes in the country. To get stronger YNT teams they need to cast a wider net. Of course, that takes an investment in time and money, as well as a deflation of egos (DA vs ECNL), so we know that won't happen.
You are wrong that US Soccer hasn't handled its youth system properly in the past. The reason I know you are wrong is that we have 8 years of results - 12 when you realize that the US loss to Japan in the finals back in the old days was a fluke. Sure, they didn't find Hailie Mace, but: (1) no one is perfect; (2) Hailie Mace still hasn't done s**t, which makes her a terrible example in support of your position; (3) I don't know the real reason Mace wasn't a youth regular, so we're just speculating.

Where you are right, however, is that USSF is certainly screwing up the WNT now and going forward because it is now favoring GDA players over other more qualified players, among the many other GDA problems that will cause the inevitable decline in the WNT. In my earlier post, I was only answering the question about why the WNT is currently so great but youth teams are not. USSF is still favoring better athletes over better technical players, and that's the right thing to do, but now it is doing so from a more limited pool, and that's the wrong thing to do.
 

The Outlaw

PREMIER
Aren't these players still being 'recommended' by coaches? Of the 3 players I mentioned earlier, only the DA (to ECNL) player would have ever been scouted and, frankly, stands out because of her size, speed and athleticism... not her technical ability. The other 2 don't even separate themselves on their own teams... let alone region. So until you remove club politics and forceful parents pushing their kid to be sent to id2, etc, how would it truly ever be the 'best players' open to everyone?
 

Justus

GOLD
Aren't these players still being 'recommended' by coaches? Of the 3 players I mentioned earlier, only the DA (to ECNL) player would have ever been scouted and, frankly, stands out because of her size, speed and athleticism... not her technical ability. The other 2 don't even separate themselves on their own teams... let alone region. So until you remove club politics and forceful parents pushing their kid to be sent to id2, etc, how would it truly ever be the 'best players' open to everyone?
Back two years ago I believe Doc held the keys to the Kingdom :)
 

The Outlaw

PREMIER
Back two years ago I believe Doc held the keys to the Kingdom :)
I don't want to share anymore about my example because these girls deserve to be protected and they're (well, 2 of the 3) are good kids that work their fannies off. But if you've seen the list and watched an age group for awhile, I would imagine most of us know at least a handful of the kids on the invitation roster. Do YOU see those kids as being the standouts of the group? Or are they gifted by notable clubs or parents that demand attention because they pay DA or ECNL fees?
 

Justus

GOLD
It was not stated anywhere that they could not post on social media. They were given the same social media guidelines that all National Team players are given, to represent the federation in a honorable way. As the story states these players are in the U15 player pool and they have earned it. Yes, my kid was there and she earned it like the other 59 players (there were 60 not 59).
I like the word "Honorable" and it's a badge of honor to be one of 60 players chosen to represent the USA in any sport at any age!!! The USSF and Doc that rolled out their TC Sham(e) two years ago in SD has some explaining to do.
 
Aren't these players still being 'recommended' by coaches? Of the 3 players I mentioned earlier, only the DA (to ECNL) player would have ever been scouted and, frankly, stands out because of her size, speed and athleticism... not her technical ability. The other 2 don't even separate themselves on their own teams... let alone region. So until you remove club politics and forceful parents pushing their kid to be sent to id2, etc, how would it truly ever be the 'best players' open to everyone?
Sorry Outlaw but it’ll disagree with your statement on that certain player. She has what it takes I all aspects. She only has one thing working against her but she’s seemingly able to manage it.
 
Aren't these players still being 'recommended' by coaches? Of the 3 players I mentioned earlier, only the DA (to ECNL) player would have ever been scouted and, frankly, stands out because of her size, speed and athleticism... not her technical ability. The other 2 don't even separate themselves on their own teams... let alone region. So until you remove club politics and forceful parents pushing their kid to be sent to id2, etc, how would it truly ever be the 'best players' open to everyone?
I hear what you are saying. Due to the incentives built into the process, this is how I expect it to go between ECNL and DA Youth National Team representation. At the VERY top, meaning, girls who US Soccer believe CURRENTLY look like they will compete for a spot on THE WNT, US Soccer will take the girls without regard to where they play. They are trying to field the best team possible and they'd look silly not taking someone who is already showing the potential to play on the top team. At each age group, this is likely fewer than 10 players, maybe fewer than 5. I'd guess that about an average of 3-5 women per birth year eventually get WNT (not YNT) time at some point. After that top group, they realize there may be some late bloomers. Here's where they will "justify" (to themselves, not publicly) taking players who might not currently be in the top X players that they have spots for in a given camp. If a player committed to training 4 times a week and is willing to forego HS for "better" club training, they will argue that player is more likely to rise in standing among peers than one who is not training 4 times a week and is playing HS. Also, for the group of players below the very top group, there is a "marketing" incentive for US Soccer to invite DA players. There is also an incentive for selecting players that come from a coach that US Soccer believes is doing an exceptional job of training. If I am correct and there isn't another significant change in the soccer landscape (big assumption), we should see a higher percentage of ECNL players on YNT rosters than the percentage of ECNL players in camps such as the one with the 60 05's.

It's worth remembering that even in the "one top league" world before DA, there was plenty of room for argument about who should have been part of a YNT Camp. It's not hard understand where we are now that another "top league" was created whose leadership is responsible for inviting players to YNT Camp.

Finally, while there are arguments to be made regarding US Soccer criteria for invites, I believe it is important to acknowledge that every girl who gets invited to these camps is worthy. They should be congratulated. They earned it. I don't believe this is inconsistent with also believing that other girls who were not invited to the camp also could have been legitimately selected.
 

The Outlaw

PREMIER
Sorry Outlaw but it’ll disagree with your statement on that certain player. She has what it takes I all aspects. She only has one thing working against her but she’s seemingly able to manage it.
I didn't want to get any more specific but we may not be talking about the same player. Again, I'm not sure how to be more specific without risking someone's identity and feelings.
 

The Outlaw

PREMIER
Sorry Outlaw but it’ll disagree with your statement on that certain player. She has what it takes I all aspects. She only has one thing working against her but she’s seemingly able to manage it.
Okay, here we go. Someone PM'd me and asked if it was a kid involved between Slammers and Beach. That is not the kid or clubs I'm referring to.
 
You are wrong that US Soccer hasn't handled its youth system properly in the past. The reason I know you are wrong is that we have 8 years of results - 12 when you realize that the US loss to Japan in the finals back in the old days was a fluke. Sure, they didn't find Hailie Mace, but: (1) no one is perfect; (2) Hailie Mace still hasn't done s**t, which makes her a terrible example in support of your position; (3) I don't know the real reason Mace wasn't a youth regular, so we're just speculating.

Where you are right, however, is that USSF is certainly screwing up the WNT now and going forward because it is now favoring GDA players over other more qualified players, among the many other GDA problems that will cause the inevitable decline in the WNT. In my earlier post, I was only answering the question about why the WNT is currently so great but youth teams are not. USSF is still favoring better athletes over better technical players, and that's the right thing to do, but now it is doing so from a more limited pool, and that's the wrong thing to do.
I agree with your last point that USSF might be screwing up WNT going forward, at least if they only chose from GDA. But maybe it will just be that those GDA players fall off the roster later on and USSF continues to grab girls from college pool for the senior WNT. I guess we'll find out. The problem I see with USSF making the selection process more exclusive is they risk making soccer less popular. If the only kids who have a prayer of making it to the national team are those that can afford the cost of GDA and have a GDA club in close enough range to make it feasible, then you may see a drop-off in participation. Kids also need heroes they can relate to. If the sport becomes a "rich man's sport", then popularity may wane. All that remains to be seen, of course, but I really wish the GDA/ECNL p*ssing contest would end.
 
I think its fine having two elite Leagues, U.S. Development Academy and ECNL, But if we are truly talking about developing the player and giving them the best opportunities to be scouted equally, let them play each other. Have a huge end of the year tournament and have the 6 best D.A. teams play the 6 best ECNL teams in the country. It would be an amazing opportunity for National team scouts and College coaches to come to one tournament and watch these elite players battle it out.
 

Justus

GOLD
I think its fine having two elite Leagues, U.S. Development Academy and ECNL, But if we are truly talking about developing the player and giving them the best opportunities to be scouted equally, let them play each other. Have a huge end of the year tournament and have the 6 best D.A. teams play the 6 best ECNL teams in the country. It would be an amazing opportunity for National team scouts and College coaches to come to one tournament and watch these elite players battle it out.
I would take the finalist of DA and ECNL from Oceanside/Del Mar and then have a "Unity Cup Final Four" at The Great Park to settle things once and for all. Have #1 seed from DA play #2 seed in ECNL and vice versa. That stadium would be packed and livestream would be huge :)
 

Justus

GOLD
I would take the finalist of DA and ECNL from Oceanside/Del Mar and then have a "Unity Cup Final Four" at The Great Park to settle things once and for all. Have #1 seed from DA play #2 seed in ECNL and vice versa. That stadium would be packed and livestream would be huge :)
After finals, take the "Sweet 16 GOATs" from each league and have a GOAT all start game a week after in Dallas. Now that would be a "Big Hat, Big Cattle Showcase" with a Big Horse, Big Saddle and let's not forget, Big Cowboy Boots as well :) YNT Scouts and College Coaches would have plenty to scout in the summer and all the parents and girls who don't get picked for Player Pools and actual Youth National Teams will have nothing to whine and fuss about anymore.
 

Lambchop

GOLD
I agree with your last point that USSF might be screwing up WNT going forward, at least if they only chose from GDA. But maybe it will just be that those GDA players fall off the roster later on and USSF continues to grab girls from college pool for the senior WNT. I guess we'll find out. The problem I see with USSF making the selection process more exclusive is they risk making soccer less popular. If the only kids who have a prayer of making it to the national team are those that can afford the cost of GDA and have a GDA club in close enough range to make it feasible, then you may see a drop-off in participation. Kids also need heroes they can relate to. If the sport becomes a "rich man's sport", then popularity may wane. All that remains to be seen, of course, but I really wish the GDA/ECNL p*ssing contest would end.
There is always a drop off. It begins in high school and ends in college!
 
...... US Soccer will take the girls without regard to where they play. They are trying to field the best team possible and they'd look silly not taking someone who is already showing the potential to play on the top team. .... .
I think you are being very naive about this. It absolutely does matter where you play and who your coach is and what connections they have. There are some DA clubs that consistently lose and are in the bottom of the bracket but still have players getting call-ups . Often those players are one and done so it is hard to justify that those particular call ups were 100% worthy and their coaches are superior. I am not talking about all the girls (only a few) so all of you that get wound up about this and think I am insulting or discrediting those players that are called up you can relax about that. Most of the call ups are deserving. But there are several players that deserve a call up to prove themselves that never get the opportunity because of politics and favoritism and other reasons. It is interesting to see them go into their college level play and which top club players do continue to shine at that next level and who drops off.
 
By the way, if you think there isn’t a bias toward the DA on this, just note that this thread is even in the Girls Development Academy area on the Forum
 

Justus

GOLD
I think you are being very naive about this. It absolutely does matter where you play and who your coach is and what connections they have. There are some DA clubs that consistently lose and are in the bottom of the bracket but still have players getting call-ups . Often those players are one and done so it is hard to justify that those particular call ups were 100% worthy and their coaches are superior. I am not talking about all the girls (only a few) so all of you that get wound up about this and think I am insulting or discrediting those players that are called up you can relax about that. Most of the call ups are deserving. But there are several players that deserve a call up to prove themselves that never get the opportunity because of politics and favoritism and other reasons. It is interesting to see them go into their college level play and which top club players do continue to shine at that next level and who drops off.
Great stuff 43. You know what you can't sell to parents of 15 and 16 year olds?
 
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