Spain Women and thoughts on ECNL

Luis Andres said:
took me some time to write this but I feel it’s corner stone to proper youth development going forward.

In soccer, success hinges on adopting diverse tactical strategies, as no single approach is universally victorious. Effectiveness depends on variables like team strengths, competition level, and opponent style, leading to different strategies achieving triumph in different scenarios.

Strategies such as possession soccer, epitomized by ball control and patient buildup, have flourished in teams like FC Barcelona and Spain's national team. Positional play, focusing on structured movement and passing lanes, remains pertinent. Tiki-taka, a blend of possession and positional play, has also reaped success.

However, it's important to acknowledge that modern soccer is multifaceted and multifarious in its approach. While tactical soccer and counterattacking strategies have shown their value, they don't necessarily negate the merits of possession-based play. Rather, they represent different tools in a team's arsenal, each valuable in its own right.

At the youth level, there's room for both tactical and possession-oriented strategies to thrive. Tactical awareness, counterattacking skills, and exploiting mistakes are indeed crucial abilities. Yet, teaching young players possession play also equips them with essential skills in ball control, teamwork, and decision-making. Moreover, mastering possession-based principles lays the groundwork for players to understand spatial awareness, quick decision-making, and adaptability—traits vital for understanding the tactical intricacies of the game.

In essence, both possession soccer and tactical soccer contribute to a well-rounded understanding of the sport. Rather than seeing them as opposing ideologies, it's valuable to recognize that a comprehensive soccer education encompasses both strategies. Teaching players to seamlessly transition between possession-based buildup and tactical counterattacks can empower them to excel across various game scenarios. This adaptability ultimately contributes to producing versatile and intelligent players who can thrive at the highest levels of the game.
Click to expand...
I got to watch my kid play direct and win it all and I saw her win it all playing possession. I like the possession style with tactical awareness as a fan. You need to know how to switch things up to catch opponent off guard. Possession is like a big cat playing with a mouse. Nice righting skilz Luis. My mother went to SC. Go Trojans!
 
Highlander said:
On top of that, I would bet $$$ that most of Spains roster would be overlooked by our national team based on size/body shape/athleticism alone.
Click to expand...
I don't think the USWNT is excluding smaller players. However, they are pulling talent from college and professional teams.

College coaches and teams ARE recruiting biggest and fastest + the type of talent Spain is fielding is being overlooked.

This is a huge problem for the USWNT.
 
LouSag said:
At the highest levels, possession soccer unfortunately does not translate to winning soccer. Tactical soccer equates to winning soccer.
Possession soccer sometimes wins the day—Spain in the women’s World Cup, Barca 2010-2011 and Man City finally winning CL last year. But the higher level stats clearly show that being out of possession and counterattacking rules the day the majority of the time. Tactical teams will beat possession teams at the youth level—just wait for the mistake and counter attack with numbers. Few US coaches can teach this method of counter attacking.
Click to expand...
A great example of the counter attacking team beating the possession team would be Japan's 4-0 win vs Spain at this very WC! Spain had 73% possession in that game.
 
Highlander said:
Ya, this is the direction they need to go. It's so obvious our current setup is a disaster...Spain has a fraction of the girls playing soccer that we do, but they have won the U17, U20 and now World Cup. Super happy to see Spain and other countries taking things to the next level. Hope this setup happens sooner rather than later.

Honestly, how many players on this years roster would be able to play for Spain? I don't see any of them having the technical ability to play their style. Great players and athletes for sure but they just aren't as clean with the ball. I'll pick on Sophia Smith - here feet were like blocks out there more often than not and on top of that she couldn't hit a pass to save her life...mostly because every time she got the ball she went heads down rushing forward...she is the same age as many of the best players on Spain.

On top of that, I would bet $$$ that most of Spains roster would be overlooked by our national team based on size/body shape/athleticism alone.
Click to expand...
I was sold possession by top GDA Doc, Head Training Director of US Soccer in San Diego, top GDA coach and scouts. It was what they preached but not how they walked. In America, we want it all now, like the movie "Click." Playing like Spain won't happen here because they have a different style of how to live life (Chill out, relax and have siesta every day) and how to share the ball with others. For example, when my dd was invited to ODP back when ODP was a hot ticket in 2016, she would pass to others and then boom, they be gone with the ball going 1 v 5 and look for the goal to show they can take on others 1 v 1. It was impressive to see the best of the best go coast to coast and get all the glory. No working from the back. It was, "get it up top and let so and so chase it down for goal. "Direct Kickball" is what many call what we do. Tactical Possession is the way to go but what do I know.
 
Ellejustus said:
For example, when my dd was invited to ODP back when ODP was a hot ticket in 2016, she would pass to others and then boom, they be gone with the ball going 1 v 5 and look for the goal to show they can take on others 1 v 1. It was impressive to see the best of the best go coast to coast and get all the glory. No working from the back. It was, "get it up top and let so and so chase it down for goal.
Click to expand...

This exactly. I'm willing to bet Spain runs away from those types of players, or at a very minimum doesn't reward it. Just look at the USWNT, it's so obvious with our players and how they play that that's how they made it to where they are today. That used to work...it doesn't any more. And honestly, I love it...Spain did what I've been waiting for. Hopefully we can evolve from here (that said, I'm somewhat doubtful).
 
whatithink said:
A great example of the counter attacking team beating the possession team would be Japan's 4-0 win vs Spain at this very WC! Spain had 73% possession in that game.
Click to expand...

True! Japan has great technical / tactical skills. That said, as a fan I would rather the USWNT play possession.

Regardless the USWNT doesn't have the players to play Japan's style.
 
Highlander said:
This exactly. I'm willing to bet Spain runs away from those types of players, or at a very minimum doesn't reward it. Just look at the USWNT, it's so obvious with our players and how they play that that's how they made it to where they are today. That used to work...it doesn't any more. And honestly, I love it...Spain did what I've been waiting for. Hopefully we can evolve from here (that said, I'm somewhat doubtful).
Click to expand...
Don't hold your breath.

College coaches, how the college game is structured (substitution policy), college competition level, and college recruitment processes haven't and won't change.
 
Highlander said:
This exactly. I'm willing to bet Spain runs away from those types of players, or at a very minimum doesn't reward it. Just look at the USWNT, it's so obvious with our players and how they play that that's how they made it to where they are today. That used to work...it doesn't any more. And honestly, I love it...Spain did what I've been waiting for. Hopefully we can evolve from here (that said, I'm somewhat doubtful).
Click to expand...
USA is way too big and too many Chefs and Daddies in the kitchen making all the cooking decisions. Spain is close to the population of California so let that sink in. We need a big cleaning up with our youth system from top to bottom. The division in youth soccer is destroying our ability to be the best. Each league thinks they're the best league and each club thinks they own the rights to your kid, and you best better not think of leaving one family for another soccer family. If you piss off the wrong "God Father" at some of these youth clubs, he and his posse will make it very difficult for your kid to succeed and will even say horrible things about your kid and call the player a "club hopper" with a "crazy father." It's straight up crazy what I witnessed for 11+ years. All my daughter wanted to do was support US Soccer, try and battle for a invite to a camp or at the very least bite the heels of the best of the best. She gave up her freedom to try and make America great again in soccer. That should be applauded but no, daddy on here hates me for speaking out about the dumb ways were doing soccer.
 
Ellejustus said:
I got to watch my kid play direct and win it all and I saw her win it all playing possession. I like the possession style with tactical awareness as a fan. You need to know how to switch things up to catch opponent off guard. Possession is like a big cat playing with a mouse. Nice righting skilz Luis. My mother went to SC. Go Trojans!
Click to expand...

Thanks. I agree with you. Versatility is key. Having a possession style mixed with some positional play soccer is the cornerstone of the total football system. Man City is the perfect example of this and they have won it all this year . Regardless I’ve trained my DD to flourish in both environments. She started off playing a possession style of youth soccer with Ole and also has the knowledge of direct style play which she learned to play with her last team. I can say that until now she has played every position on the field in her short youth career. Making her a well rounded player that understands what she needs to do depending on where she is playing. Making her a perfect candidate for a total football system. I’ve made sure to have made her a very technical player that has explosive speed. We’ve worked on that. She can be that athletic fast player Americans like that takes over a game if needed to make a big play which she showed scouts during ecnl playoffs in SD and Virginia. And she can also be that distributor that shares the ball with vision in a possession style of play. My goal has always been to make her the most complete and technical girl soccer player in her age group since I noticed very early on that she was going to be a great athlete as well, which she now is. She has the stamina of a horse coupled with acceleration of a cheetah in animal terms lol. Her 30m times right now are comparable to a female Olympic track athlete that would run the 100m in the high 10’s to low 11’s. Not saying she can hit those numbers on a track field running 100 m since she’s never trained for that but the first 30m which is the acceleration phase she would keep up just fine with those Olympic runners at age 13. She’s ready to learn possession with tactics (positional play) and that she is going to do with mls next boys in a very fast paced total football type of system. I’m not saying she’s the best player in her age group since that is a very opinionated and relative statement. But she is probably the most complete soccer player in the age group now that can do it all. And that has always been my goal up to this point. She’s not the best striker but I’m working towards making her a better one. But this takes time as we have focused on all other aspects of the game. Americans tend to think that if you are not the best striker then you are not the best player. Striking is both science and art. Some kids are very natural at it and others take more time to develop these skills. There is always room to improve your striking accuracy skills. But naturally speaking she can be that explosive #10 the USA desperately needs and does not yet have. That’s the long term goal and I know it’s very ambitious. But I’m preparing her for that.
 
Last edited:
Luis Andres said:
Thanks. I agree with you. Versatility is key. Having a possession style mixed with some positional play soccer is the cornerstone of the total football system. Man City is the perfect example of this and they have won it all this year . Regardless I’ve trained my DD to flourish in both environments. She started off playing a possession style of youth soccer with Ole and also has the knowledge of direct style play which she learned to play with her last team. I can say that until now she has played every position on the field in her short youth career. Making her a well rounded player that understands what she needs to do depending on where she is playing. I’ve made sure to have made her a very technical player that has explosive speed. We’ve worked on this. She can be that athletic fast player Americans like that takes over a game if needed to make a big play which she showed scouts during ecnl playoffs in SD and Virginia. And she can also be that distributor that shares the ball with vision in a possession style of play. My goal has always been to make her the most complete and technical girl player soccer player in her age group since I noticed very early on that she was going to be a great athlete as well, which she is now. She has the stamina of a horse coupled with acceleration of a cheetah in animal terms lol. Her 30m times right now is comparable to an Olympic track athlete that would run the 100m in the high 10’s to low 11’s. Not saying she can hit those numbers on a track field running 100 m since she’s never trained for that but the first 30m which is the acceleration phase she would keep up just fine with those Olympic runners at age 13. She’s ready to learn possession with tactics (positional play) and that she is going to do with mls next boys in a very fast paced total football type of system. I’m not saying she’s the best player in her age group since that is a very opinionated and relative statement. But she is probably the most complete soccer player in the age group now that can do it all. And that has always been my goal up to this point. She’s not the best striker but I’m working towards making her a better one. But this takes time as we have focused on all other aspects of the game. Americans tend to think that if you are not the best striker then you are not the best player. Striking is both science and art. Some kids are very natural at it and others take more time to develop these skills. There is always room to improve your striking accuracy skills. But naturally speaking she can be that explosive #10 the USA desperately needs and does not yet have. That’s the long term goal and I know it’s very ambitious. But I’m preparing her for that.
Click to expand...
1692633477829.png
 
Has to come from US Soccer and USYNT and WNT to make a shift to playing a better style of soccer. Can't rely on clubs and colleges cause they just want to win at all costs. Can't rely on NWSL since they don't have the money or infrastructure to support academies. Can't rely on MLS since they will only care about boys.
 
Luis Andres said:
I can bet you many docs are clueless to the phases of true possession style of play. They see it as defending or attacking and don’t take into account the transitional phases. Which leads to bad tactics. If all players on a team understand this concept and are all technically sound and tactically aligned to the recognition of these phases then if and only if then you can start to make progress in improving the style of play.
Click to expand...

Which is really sad, because the basic US grassroots license (and the AYSO 11v11 course) teaches those 4 phases.
 
chipmonk said:
Which is really sad, because the basic US grassroots license (and the AYSO 11v11 course) teaches those 4 phases.
Click to expand...

Let me rephrase my statement. Maybe the do know but they don’t explain like this to kids. Maybe they are simplify things a bit too much or maybe since they have always played direct they just don’t know how to apply these concepts and have it translate to kids executing it right on the pitch. Who knows. I’ve always hear docs saying we go from offense to defense and back to offense. That’s as far as most go. The problem with that statement is that possession soccer is not that simple and that frame of reference can quickly make your young possession team very vulnerable if kids don’t understand the objectives of what they are trying to accomplish in that style of play.
 
Luis Andres said:
Let me rephrase my statement. Maybe the do know but they don’t explain like this to kids. Maybe they are simplify things a bit too much or maybe since they have always played direct they just don’t know how to apply these concepts and have it translate to kids executing it right on the pitch. Who knows. I’ve always hear docs saying we go from offense to defense and back to offense. That’s as far as most go. The problem with that statement is that possession soccer is not that simple and that frame of reference can quickly make your young possession team very vulnerable if kids don’t understand the objectives of what they are trying to accomplish in that style of play.
Click to expand...

I knew you meant that :). It’s still sad because the US coaching education does put an emphasis on all 4 phases, but that doesn’t translate to what is actually coached 90+% of the time. Even more so when the WWC final was clearly decided by a transition moment rather than Spain’s possession based attack having a breakthrough moment.
 
chipmonk said:
I knew you meant that :). It’s still sad because the US coaching education does put an emphasis on all 4 phases, but that doesn’t translate to what is actually coached 90+% of the time. Even more so when the WWC final was clearly decided by a transition moment rather than Spain’s possession based attack having a breakthrough moment.
Click to expand...
-coaches have players for too short of a time. Having to rotate with letter league shuffle
-demands from parents to win. Have to focus on things like shooting or making up mistakes from the prior game. It’s whack a mole instead of organized development
-Except for the highest and oldest levels practices too limited twice a week. Academy players in Europe have multiple periods and classroom throughout the day
-the coaching drills at the us academy level are strictly possession based but that’s rarely translated into games because of winning. Full tactical game rarely practiced given us soccers obsession with short sided games and self learning which is more useful at the younger ages
-field space is limited. Hard to address tactical issues without at least a half field
-too much time is wasted on things like conditioning which should be done by high level players outside of team training.

just have to look at the goalkicks to see where the problem is.That’s where every action starts but we have too often at the middle school ages(even with the buildup line for certain younger ages in place) the big legged player who isn’t necessarily the gk just boot it. Even at the olders rarely is there that discussion for how we want to play: short, clipped to the backs, long to spread the field.
 
Grace T. said:
in Europe the answer has been the academies are just for a handful of future pros. Everyone else plays tiered rec. assignment in tiered is generally by city Or barrio which assigns players based on level instead of the needs of the team.
Click to expand...

Sound very much like a pyramid system under one umbrella to me
 
Grace T. said:
More like the weird eye on the back of the money. One level for pros. Tiered rec for everyone else
Click to expand...
I'll agree with that, but the Euro pros are not being selected to play academy from the bottom tier of their rec. system. Call the European pyramid whatever you want. We don't have any type of pyramid in the US. We have the the weird eye on top of a wide flat uneven foundation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top