Let's not leave out the National Champs Surf 04s possession team in 2016/2017. We beat those 04 Earthquakes. That game I think had 10 future YNT players. It was Epic and Surf won 2-0. It was a passing and keep away clinic until our coach did a full court, sneak press and we caught them off guard and with that win, we locked up being the undisputed #1 team in the country from SoCal. It's a medal that I chased with my hard earn money and time and you bet I will brag about that year and that victory any time I can.
Spain Women and thoughts on ECNL
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They were great. I recall watching them play in that Adidas sponsored event at Avanta stadium. And StubHub.
Speaking of Quakes Sophie Jones followed
Deza there from DeAnza Force. Great tactical and technical player.
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So now that we all pretty much know the root of the problem within the US soccer system. What type of soccer do you think should be taught in the USA. Would everyone agree that youth teams should be learning possesion soccer or is it some other style. Here is the list of all the styles.
Soccer Styles and Philosophies:
In my opinion U10 and under we teach possesion soccer. After that I would choose positional play because it require thinknig and tactics versus possesion is much simpler to learn.
Soccer Styles and Philosophies:
- Direct Play or Route One Football:
- A strategy that prioritizes quickly moving the ball from defense to attack, often bypassing the midfield with long balls. It aims to exploit spaces behind defenses or capitalize on physically dominant forwards. Features include an emphasis on long balls, set pieces, and robust physical play.
- Counter-Attacking:
- Teams defend deep, cede possession, and look to exploit the opposition during quick transitions. The goal is to capitalize on spaces left by the opposing team when they are in an attacking formation. It's characterized by rapid transitions, quick forward passes, and pacey attackers.
- Pressing:
- A strategy where teams exert pressure on the opposition high up the pitch, especially immediately after losing possession. The aim is to win back the ball quickly and exploit spaces before the opposition reorganizes. It's about high energy, teamwork, and coordinated movement, with variations like Gegenpressing, High Press, and Mid-block Press.
- Tiki-Taka:
- Originating from Spain, this style is associated with short, intricate passes and abundant player movement. The aim is to control tempo and break down defenses with rapid passes and movements. It emphasizes technique, player understanding, and maintaining possession.
- Catenaccio:
- An Italian defensive approach where teams prioritize defense and look to score via counter-attacks or set-pieces. It often features a sweeper or 'libero' behind the main defensive line.
- Total Football:
- Associated with 1970s Dutch football, where players are fluid in their positions and interchange roles. It creates a dynamic team structure that adapts to various in-match situations. It requires versatile players familiar with multiple positions.
- Samba Football:
- A style synonymous with Brazilian soccer, emphasizing flair, skill, and creativity. It celebrates individual skill and creativity within the team structure, with dribbling, flair, and an expressive style of play.
- Positional Play:
- Often seen as a modern evolution of "Total Football," this approach emphasizes the organization of players in space to create overloads and manipulate the opposition. The primary goal is to break down defensive structures by manipulating player positions and the ball. It's about structuring the team to maximize space and passing options, often seen in conjunction with pressing tactics, especially the high press.
- Possession Soccer:
- This style emphasizes retaining control of the ball for extended periods. The primary objective is to control the game's tempo, limit the opponent's chances, and patiently find scoring opportunities. It's both an offensive and defensive tactic: offensively to methodically break down opponents and defensively to limit opponents' attacking opportunities by monopolizing the ball. Tiki-Taka can be viewed as a subset of this style, with added emphasis on rapid, short passes.
In my opinion U10 and under we teach possesion soccer. After that I would choose positional play because it require thinknig and tactics versus possesion is much simpler to learn.
- Possession Soccer:
- Concept: As previously mentioned, this style of play prioritizes retaining control of the ball for extended periods. The primary objective is to keep the ball, sometimes even at the expense of directly attacking or penetrating the opposition defense.
- Purpose: The aim is to tire out the opposition, control the tempo of the game, and limit the opposition's scoring chances. It’s about dominance through ball control.
- Notable Examples: Several teams have been known for possession soccer, but the prime example remains Pep Guardiola's FC Barcelona. However, it's worth noting that Guardiola's teams also heavily incorporated elements of positional play.
- Features: Emphasis on short passes, recycling possession, and patience in finding openings.
- Positional Play(or Juego de Posición):
- Concept: While it may involve retaining possession, positional play is more focused on the organization of players in space. The primary goal is to create superiorities (numerical, positional, and qualitative) around the ball, ensuring that there are always passing options and that the team can progress up the field in a structured manner.
- Purpose: The objective is to break down defensive structures by manipulating the position of the ball, the players, and the opposition. It's about creating spaces and passing lanes, and exploiting them.
- Notable Examples: Many of the best modern teams, including those coached by Pep Guardiola (at Barcelona, Bayern Munich, and Manchester City), have utilized the principles of positional play.
- Features: Structured player positioning, creating triangles and diamonds in possession to offer multiple passing lanes, stretching and manipulating opposition defenses, ensuring width and depth in play, and switching the point of attack to exploit space.
So chess bro. Love the break down on the difference between Possession Futbol and Positional Style. I prefer Positional Style but to each their own.
The reason why I posted this was because everyone seems to use the word possession soccer too freely and thus not allowing a team to form an identity for style of play. To say we teach possession in the USA does not mean we as Americans need to play like Spain.
Positional play many times is mistaken as possession soccer. While it incorporates possession it’s not possession soccer by itself. For example Positional play is the perfect system for the USA to adopt because it offers variability and flexibility in style of play given the type of players we already have and are developing. Positional play is a framework or a philosophy, but it's not a rigid set of rules. This allows for a multitude of interpretations and variations based on the coach's vision, the players' skill sets, the team's overall objectives, and the footballing culture of the country or club. Hence, two teams can both employ positional play but manifest it in vastly different styles on the pitch.
Here are a few factors that can influence these variations:
1. **Personnel**: The specific talents and abilities of players can shape how positional play is executed. A team with speedy wingers might exploit width more, while a team with a dominant midfield might focus on central overloads.
2. **Cultural Influences**: Different footballing cultures emphasize different aspects of the game. For example, Spanish football has traditionally emphasized close control and short passing, leading to a particular style of positional play. In contrast, Dutch "Total Football" has its own interpretations of positional play.
3. **Tactical Preferences of the Coach**: Even within the umbrella of positional play, a coach might prioritize certain principles. Some might emphasize quick ball circulation to disorient the defense, while others might focus on drawing opponents in to exploit spaces behind them.
4. **Opposition**: The nature of the opposition can also dictate the style. A team facing a high press might employ different positional play strategies than when facing a team that sits deep.
5. **Game State**: If a team is ahead, they might use positional play to control the game and maintain possession. If they're chasing a result, they might use it more aggressively to break down defenses.
6. **Integration with Other Tactics**: While positional play can be a team's dominant philosophy, it's often integrated with other tactics. For instance, some teams might combine positional play with high pressing, while others might transition into a counter-attacking stance after a certain phase of positional play.
For a real-world example, consider the differences between how Pep Guardiola's Barcelona and Manchester City teams have employed positional play. Both teams operate under the philosophy of positional play, but there are clear differences in tempo, player roles, and specific patterns of play, reflecting the unique attributes of the players and the challenges of the respective leagues.
In essence, positional play provides a tactical foundation, but it's the nuances, variations, and integrations that give each team its unique identity.
Meanwhile Possession soccer at its roots is the perfect framework for kids. For young players, especially those under 12, the primary objectives in their soccer development should be:
1. **Enjoyment of the Game**: Making sure they love playing and want to continue.
2. **Developing Fundamental Skills**: Ensuring they have the technical foundation upon which they can build as they grow older.
**Possession soccer** is an approach that aligns well with these objectives for several reasons:
1. **Touch on the Ball**: Emphasizing possession ensures that players get plenty of touches on the ball. The more touches they get, the better their ball control, dribbling, and passing skills will become.
2. **Encourages Passing & Teamwork**: Possession soccer emphasizes keeping the ball within the team, which naturally encourages players to pass and support one another. This can foster a sense of teamwork and understanding of basic game mechanics like supporting angles and moving the ball away from pressure.
3. **Builds Confidence**: Being comfortable on the ball and not feeling rushed to get rid of it can boost a young player's confidence. As they become more adept at maintaining possession, their self-assurance in their abilities will likely grow.
4. **Understanding of Space**: While possession soccer is simpler than advanced tactical concepts like positional play, it still introduces players to the idea of using space. They'll start recognizing when to pass, when to dribble, and when to move into open areas.
5. **Reduces Pressure**: At younger ages, focusing on possession reduces the pressure of always trying to score or win. Instead, the emphasis is on skill development, understanding, and enjoyment.
6. **Foundation for Future Learning**: Mastering the basics of possession soccer lays a solid foundation for introducing more complex tactical ideas later on. Once players are comfortable with the ball at their feet and understand the basics of passing and movement, they'll be better equipped to understand concepts like positional play, pressing, or counter-attacking in their teenage years.
In summary, possession soccer offers a great framework for young players to develop their skills and understanding of the game. It's a balanced approach that emphasizes individual skill, teamwork, and enjoyment, all essential components for youth soccer development.
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Bingo. I remember the rec days when kickball was all that was taught. I was asked to be coach (tricked really) at the last minute and took a team of misfits and lost every game. I stressed teamwork and pass the ball around. The other dad coaches were chasing 1st place all the way and it was about the championship. One coach who ended up getting 1st place taught Rugby American Soccer and Direct Kickball like no other. It was co-ed and super dangerous for the girls and the weak boys.
Bro that’s exactly how it is in rec. All kickball. All bad and it’s bad for the future of the sport.it’s bad for technique and it’s bad for IQ. European Rec I hear is much better. American club kids in the way they train technical skills tend to end up falling in love with the ball. They fall in love with all the cone drills trainers teach here created through way too much structured repetitive technical training. It’s really bad for kids. I see so many trainers running through mindless robotic cone drills through a cookie cutter system that blew up when covid hit. No one plays pickup soccer. Kids go to the lab and train as robots. Why do they do this? For me it’s about the $ cause it’s easy to setup cones and have kids in lines to train footwork and technique through memorized patterns when the game is not at all like that. While structure is valuable at a very young age, there are way too many older kids training like this. Talking to my friend in South America and he literally was laughing at all the silly Instagram technical training kids are doing.
The dynamics of youth soccer in the United States versus Europe are influenced by various historical, cultural, and structural factors. While there's certainly a significant emphasis on technical development in both continents, the environment and approaches differ. Here are some of my findings.
1. **Cultural Importance**: Soccer (or football as it's called in Europe) is deeply embedded in European culture. Many European nations consider football an essential part of their national identity. Kids grow up in an environment where football is not just a sport but a way of life, with traditions, local rivalries, and a shared community experience. In the U.S., although soccer is growing rapidly, sports like American football, basketball, and baseball have traditionally held more cultural significance.
2. **Street Soccer**: Unstructured play, often referred to as "street soccer," has historically been a significant part of the development process in many footballing nations in Europe (and other continents like South America). This type of play encourages creativity, understanding of the game, and a love for the sport itself. The U.S., with its structured sports culture and emphasis on organized activities, has not had as strong a tradition of street soccer.
3. **Coaching Philosophies**: there's often a perception that U.S. youth soccer places a significant emphasis on technical drills and repetitive training. While technical proficiency is crucial, it's also essential to foster creativity, decision-making, and game understanding, areas European academies might stress through varied training sessions, scrimmages, and emphasis on tactical education.
4. **Sports Infrastructure**: The U.S. has a highly organized sports infrastructure with leagues, clubs, and tournaments catering to various age groups and skill levels. This structure can sometimes lean towards a results-oriented approach (winning games) rather than long-term player development. European clubs, especially those with renowned academies, often have a clear developmental pathway that balances technical training with tactical education and game understanding.
5. **Diverse Sporting Options**: American children have a wide range of sports to choose from, and often they play multiple sports throughout the year. This multisport approach, while beneficial in many ways, can mean that their attention and commitment to soccer are divided.
6. **Late Specialization**: In Europe, talented young players are often identified early and funneled into professional club academies where they receive top-tier coaching, face high-level competition, and get a balanced soccer education. In the U.S., the college sports system is dominant, leading to a later specialization in soccer for many players.
It's essential to note that soccer in the U.S. has evolved significantly over the past few decades. The growth of Major League Soccer (MLS), the development of new academies and training facilities, and the changing perceptions of the sport are leading to a more balanced and sophisticated approach to youth development. We are only be right track in that aspect. However, I think now it’s the perfect time to cut out these bad habits or we will have a bunch robotic technical soccer players in the near future that never learned to love and appreciate the game because they never learned to play chess. They simply learned to only play checkers. Soccer is a mental sport. Technique is just one of the tools to help you execute the decisions made by your brain. I’ve always wondered why my son’s online FIFA team along with all the other online American teams always lose to the Europeans FIFA online. He says while they have a good FIFA team in the USA. It’s the Germans that Win all the big online tournaments. That says a lot about European soccer IQ. You can now see it clearly translate to the virtual world of video games.
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There's no single tactic that wins against every opponent.
But... players that know how to do possession can switch to direct. Players that can only do direct can't switch to possession.
I agree 100% Today is my day off so I did a lot research & reading so I reported my findings. We all need to get better educated to help our kids and Nation.
I agree 100% Today is my day off so I did a lot research & reading so I reported my findings. We all need to get better educated to help our kids and Nation grow the sport and take it in the right direction.
Love for kids, love for soccer and love for country is the call of the hour Luis. Thanks for the findings.
The boys academies are teaching something called us possessional play. It’s a possessional system that emphasizes looking for the direct options when possible, using the press to force errors, and using physicality where possible. Supposedly it emphasizes possessional play in practice but is not beholden to it. Different academies have a different emphasis but that’s the foundation. It trickles down somewhat imperfectly to mls next and the second teams as a result. Since ecnl is not plugged into that, given the politics on the boys side between ecnl and mls next, the girls have no such targets. It’s similar to the system being taught in the English academies which is probably where it comes from
Two touches or less or you sit on the bench is how my daughter was taught possession. You can't do possessional play if you got ball hogs on the team and selfish parents looking out for their own. Some players at Showcases turned into yellers, "ball, ball, pass me the ball" "pass to me pass to me, I'm open." These showcases have turned into individual "Showoff Games." Seriously, it's like circus act of jugglers and those who can go 1 v 5 obstacle course contests and see who can score the most. Theses scores are worse than the ECNL semi's that Jill Ellis was talking about. The GDA had 14-0 scores all the time and little "Miss Susie the Scorer" would get double Hat Tricks in one game. What is a double Hat Trick? Yup, 6 goals in one game. Pad those numbers to be scoring champ. Talk about being "goal chasers" to pad one's stats. Some chase medals, some chase goals for themselves. What freaking mess we have on our hands. Step #1 to fix this is to block "daddy" from the selection process.
That kind of thing only happens when one team is WAY better than the other.
It's also when direct play shines the most.
When you play better teams that know how to do posession + double on defense suddenly direct players won't score and they'll get tired chasing the ball as it gets switched back and forth on the field.
You often see "B" teams that tear up 2nd level leagues but suddenly struggle when they play the next level up. Above is what's happening. Playing as a team with set roles and responsibilities slows down the game + over time allows players to implement targeted attacks on where ever the opponent is weak.
I forget where I read the story Luis, but a guy moved here from Iran as a high school student and the kids were playing a sport he never heard of called, Soccer. The guy from Iran only knew how to play Futbol. I think we were just taught a certain way of playing a sport with our feet that we invented called, "Soccer." Sock the ball, sock your opponent and sock anyone in your way. Many refs allow this rugby style soccer on the pitch because they have no clue, and they get paid to ref whatever style the payer wants. We have to bleach this old sport, then start a new sport called, Futbol if we want to change. Yes, we will always have both and sometimes both might play against each other, Futbol vs Soccer from time to time but let's not kid ourselves, these two are two different sports altogether. That's my conclusion. Refs ref soccer (Sock-Her) one way and Ref's ref Futbol another way. Another name for Soccer could be, Direct Style Kickball. This is another dangerous style and is one of the reasons why so many girls are getting hurt. If you try and bring Soccer to Spain, you will be kindly asked to leave and banned from participation. Of course, warnings will be given out like Yellow's and Reds very quickly and looks from fans with disdain for that type of aggressive play on the pitch. You will not win any fans with Direct Kickball. American Soccer kickball/Rugby would never be allowed in Spain. Futbol is only allowed.
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I've heard coming from a friend who's been there and done the soccer journey with his kids that it is not recommended to play high school girls soccer. Especially if you are a good player that can dribble. The team will rely on your kid so she will have the ball a lot but it comes with high risk of being taken out by an emotional player that is probably flight 3 anywhere else. Unfortuntely his daughter paid the price for playing high school soccer, She was going to go D1 but never fully recovered. Time went by and she just decided not to play anymore. Maybe with rehab she theoretically should have been able to make a come back but you know at that age when your time is not spent practicing you spend it with friends and there are boyfriends too. So that was it.
High school soccer is roller derby with a ball and super dangerous. If we had a Professional, Possessional, Respectful & Honest pathway for Futbol, then no way my little one would have endangered herself. However, if any dd wants to play HHS, they should be allowed to but also be warned of the risk. Every game I watched for four years gave me fear and I'm just glad she made it out without a severe injury. She got whacked a few times by some big and fast girls that have no business playing soccer, let alone futbol. Like I said b4 Luis, if we taught Futbol at High School, then it could be a fun way to play with your friends. Add the boys to the mix and it's next to impossible to make it Pro.
Returning to the topic of possession soccer, Pep Guardiola famously values "position over possession." He believes that mere ball retention without forward intent is futile. While Tiki-Taka is often hailed as the quintessential Spanish approach to possession soccer, it wasn't fundamentally positional. Tiki-Taka primarily emphasized short passes and ball circulation, with the concept of positional superiority taking a backseat.
So, how does positional play differ from Tiki-Taka when both prioritize possession? The key distinction lies in their approach: Tiki-Taka can be viewed as unstructured spontaneous possession, while positional play is more of a systematic tactical possession. At the heart of positional play is the pursuit of positional superiority, largely achieved by identifying the "free man." This shouldn't be confused with the "third man" concept in possession soccer, which focuses on triangular play. The free man is typically an unmarked player who positions himself between defensive lines, often resulting from the numerical advantages (like 3v2 or 4v3 situations) inherent in the positional play strategy.
Suppose the team progresses to a point on the field where positional superiority is neutralized—say, in the attacking third where every player is marked. The strategy then is to circulate the ball backward, expanding the field's width and depth to reestablish numerical dominance. Here, things like dribbling at your opponent to lure him in to free up someone else come into prominence, as does the tactic of luring the opponent to press. By drawing them out, spaces emerge between defensive lines. This allows the free man to slot into these gaps, continuing the team's forward progression. Which can eventually lead to a numerical superiority in the attacking third where the opportunity to shoot and or score is given. By moving through the pitch with numerical superiority within strategic areas of the pitch you are always in a great position to win the ball back if you lose possession by being able to press the ball in any given area where you have numerical superiority and thus preventing counter attacks.
So, how does positional play differ from Tiki-Taka when both prioritize possession? The key distinction lies in their approach: Tiki-Taka can be viewed as unstructured spontaneous possession, while positional play is more of a systematic tactical possession. At the heart of positional play is the pursuit of positional superiority, largely achieved by identifying the "free man." This shouldn't be confused with the "third man" concept in possession soccer, which focuses on triangular play. The free man is typically an unmarked player who positions himself between defensive lines, often resulting from the numerical advantages (like 3v2 or 4v3 situations) inherent in the positional play strategy.
Suppose the team progresses to a point on the field where positional superiority is neutralized—say, in the attacking third where every player is marked. The strategy then is to circulate the ball backward, expanding the field's width and depth to reestablish numerical dominance. Here, things like dribbling at your opponent to lure him in to free up someone else come into prominence, as does the tactic of luring the opponent to press. By drawing them out, spaces emerge between defensive lines. This allows the free man to slot into these gaps, continuing the team's forward progression. Which can eventually lead to a numerical superiority in the attacking third where the opportunity to shoot and or score is given. By moving through the pitch with numerical superiority within strategic areas of the pitch you are always in a great position to win the ball back if you lose possession by being able to press the ball in any given area where you have numerical superiority and thus preventing counter attacks.
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One of the knocks on one of my dd #1 teams in the country was that we held onto the ball too much, passed backwards way too much and did not have the "kill the mouse" now instincts and not always bring ganas to the pitch. We played around with the mouse way too much and it cost us a few times and I might say, it cost us to be in the running of one of the greatest possession teams ever assembled. "Girls, we played real pretty soccer today. However, the best team lost today." Why? Because they played around and did not destroy the opponent. I like possession with the intent to score always and move forward and not backwards 90% of the time. Most players can pass it back, but can they pass it forward and in spaces and lead the player to the right spot? I love Futbol. No wonder I was not a fan of soccer. Great stuff bro. You know how to research and the forum need's more dads like you Luis. I know you had to obey the NFP agreement, but I like you free now and free to write and express your opinions. You write really good or is it "well?" Anyway, to each his own
