RSL North and South join DPL Open

[tjinaz]

dp_league​

DPL OPEN WELCOMES RSL-AZ NORTH​

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Another day & another great club competing in the DPL OPEN. Let’s welcome RSL - AZ NORTH and wish them good luck and success on this new journey. ​

Welcome RSL - AZ SOUTH TO THE DPL OPEN!!

Excited to have another club join the DPL OPEN and add to the quality of teams competing!

Interesting so wonder what ECNL will do now. RSL aka Royals has both ECNL and ECRL teams as well. This is likely due to the EA/DPL national organization. Plus DPL in AZ could be closed loop they could have a just Arizona league. Albion in vegas would be the only outlier. FC Tucson is dropping but looks like they are adding 3 RSL teams in metro North (scottsdale) South (gilbert) and Southern (Tucson). DPL is growing.

 

[whatithink]

dp_league​

DPL OPEN WELCOMES RSL-AZ NORTH​

​

Another day & another great club competing in the DPL OPEN. Let’s welcome RSL - AZ NORTH and wish them good luck and success on this new journey. ​

Welcome RSL - AZ SOUTH TO THE DPL OPEN!!

Excited to have another club join the DPL OPEN and add to the quality of teams competing!

Interesting so wonder what ECNL will do now. RSL aka Royals has both ECNL and ECRL teams as well. This is likely due to the EA/DPL national organization. Plus DPL in AZ could be closed loop they could have a just Arizona league. Albion in vegas would be the only outlier. FC Tucson is dropping but looks like they are adding 3 RSL teams in metro North (scottsdale) South (gilbert) and Southern (Tucson). DPL is growing.

I wonder does RSL "disassociate" Utah Royals and RSL-AZ on the girls side.

 

[tjinaz]

I wonder does RSL "disassociate" Utah Royals and RSL-AZ on the girls side.

Nope. They list them as the Elite teams. Have their own staff, director and uniforms. They are not under the North and South directors the elite teams are Tiffany. Looks like these will be tied to the regions and will likely be the top teams "other" than those in the ECNL/RL groups. ECNL may not care so long as the top 2 are in their league.

 

[tjinaz]

So just found out the 3 RSL teams will be in "DPL Open" which is a lower DPL league and will not play against the current Arizona DPL teams, but may be eligible to play in the national events and possibly playoffs.

 

[whatithink]

Nope. They list them as the Elite teams. Have their own staff, director and uniforms. They are not under the North and South directors the elite teams are Tiffany. Looks like these will be tied to the regions and will likely be the top teams "other" than those in the ECNL/RL groups. ECNL may not care so long as the top 2 are in their league.

Yeah, as long as their #1 & 2 teams are ECNL & ECRL, I doubt ECNL cares.

I do think RSL-AZ subsidizes the ECNL program though, but that's fine, its all labels at the end of the day.

 

[Carlsbad7]

So just found out the 3 RSL teams will be in "DPL Open" which is a lower DPL league and will not play against the current Arizona DPL teams, but may be eligible to play in the national events and possibly playoffs.

DPL Open is a way to let clubs try out DPL without fully committing to a season or being officially accepted as a DPL club.

GA does the same thing. They often allow DPL clubs to participate in GA events like showcases.

Usually this is the first step to DPL or GA acceptance. Assuming that the new club trying out DPL has a positive record at the events they participate in. (Which almost always happens because they get lower level competition thrown as them)

 

[Soccerfamaz]

DPL Open is a way to let clubs try out DPL without fully committing to a season or being officially accepted as a DPL club.

GA does the same thing. They often allow DPL clubs to participate in GA events like showcases.

Usually this is the first step to DPL or GA acceptance. Assuming that the new club trying out DPL has a positive record at the events they participate in. (Which almost always happens because they get lower level competition thrown as them)

 

[Soccerfamaz]

Maybe that works in California. But Arizona does not have the depth to continue to dilute the pool. I don’t understand the appeal of letter leagues outside of GA/ECNL/MLS Next. If RL / DPL can’t beat the non letter league teams, and they often cannot, what is the point? If you’re paying for the experience of playing on a travel team, maybe. But if people are hoping it’s a pathway to college scholarships that math doesn’t seem to work.

 

[tjinaz]

Maybe that works in California. But Arizona does not have the depth to continue to dilute the pool. I don’t understand the appeal of letter leagues outside of GA/ECNL/MLS Next. If RL / DPL can’t beat the non letter league teams, and they often cannot, what is the point? If you’re paying for the experience of playing on a travel team, maybe. But if people are hoping it’s a pathway to college scholarships that math doesn’t seem to work.

MSL Next, GA and ECNL are made for either pro or D1. Except for Arsenal the majority of the DPL/RL teams are top in their age groups. For the clubs with DPL except for those with GA , they are the top girls team for the club. At most age groups its ECNL/GA then ECRL/DPL then the state league teams. With CCV getting on the bandwagon nearly all the big clubs top teams will be letter league. (RSL, Rising, Arsenal, SCDS, AZ SC, FC AZ, Phx Premier and CCV) Get the soccer rankings app and look for yourself. ECRL/DPL are built for D2, D3, NAIA and JC plenty of smaller colleges looking for players. Question is are you willing to send your kid to Eastern Appalachian state to get a degree and what will it be worth after 4 years and they come back home to Phoenix to look for a job. ECRL as they are Southwest and follow the same schedule as ECNL, they have a ton of travel to Socal, DPL not so much. Pretty much all teams in AZ so while you are letter league there is not nearly the travel just a couple of national events. If you want quality soccer it is getting so you have to be in letter leagues to have skilled teammates. 90% of the 6a HighSchool players are letter league as well.

 

[Carlsbad7]

Maybe that works in California. But Arizona does not have the depth to continue to dilute the pool. I don’t understand the appeal of letter leagues outside of GA/ECNL/MLS Next. If RL / DPL can’t beat the non letter league teams, and they often cannot, what is the point? If you’re paying for the experience of playing on a travel team, maybe. But if people are hoping it’s a pathway to college scholarships that math doesn’t seem to work.

I agree with you. The appeal of letter leagues doesn't make sense.

However the reality is that clubs wouldn't be fighting each other to get into XYZ league if the association didn't bring in paying customers.

As a parent what do you do if you're kid shows promise as a player, and a higher than normal level of talent? If you stick with the local league they'll probably do well and have fun. But, if you seek out XYZ super league with national exposure they might be able to go to the next level. Throw in that the more you spend with XYZ super league, the club, or coach and the more doors will open up for your kid. It makes the letter leagues very appealing.

 

[self unaware soccer dad]

Maybe that works in California. But Arizona does not have the depth to continue to dilute the pool. I don’t understand the appeal of letter leagues outside of GA/ECNL/MLS Next. If RL / DPL can’t beat the non letter league teams, and they often cannot, what is the point? If you’re paying for the experience of playing on a travel team, maybe. But if people are hoping it’s a pathway to college scholarships that math doesn’t seem to work.

You're being kinda negative. I see non-letter players get college scholarships and lettered players getting scholarships. Its dependent on what the player wants, their skills, and the effort they put into obtaining a chance to play further. I see that math.

Every player has their path and the more opportunities they have to showcase their strengths the better, IMO. These opportunities come with costs/time/trade offs and teams don't get scholarships - players do.

 

[Soccerfamaz]

You're being kinda negative. I see non-letter players get college scholarships and lettered players getting scholarships. Its dependent on what the player wants, their skills, and the effort they put into obtaining a chance to play further. I see that math.

Every player has their path and the more opportunities they have to showcase their strengths the better, IMO. These opportunities come with costs/time/trade offs and teams don't get scholarships - players do.

I’m not trying to be negative, but rather realistic. I agree that both letter and non letter league players go on to play in college. Which is fantastic to see and part of why I’m raising this point.

MLS Next, ECNL and GA are all elite programs. The play is at a higher level aside from a few outliers (arsenal). It’s an easier argument that playing at an elite level justifies the expense for fees + travel - regardless of a what a kid wants to do post club play. Even if they want to college and just be a student they played at an elite level because they were good enough.

When RSL moved from one ECNL boys team to two EA teams it was no longer an elite program offering. TBD what happens with Rising’s shift from ECNL to EA. If second or third team players from a big club make an EA/DPL/RL team, it doesn’t suddenly make them elite players. Do those EA teams consistently win against the non letter league teams in tournaments? Let’s move on the ECRL on the girls side. When ECRL teams compete in tournaments, do they consistently dominate? DPL teams are easier to measure, as they still play in leagues with non letter league teams. Kudos to them for not hiding behind the elusive curtain of the elitist. Are they the top? Consistently? Maybe some are, but there are plenty that are not. With how expensive and “elite” these teams are, shouldn’t they always beat the non letter league teams? Look at the results, they don’t.

Regarding my comment that the math doesn’t work….let’s say RL/DPL player gets a scholarship to play in college. With fees being 5-10k more than non letter league teams, it’s not a reach to say that $60k was spent for a chance at a partial scholarship. Likely the family would’ve come out ahead financially by investing the extra money and using it to pay for college. But as long as parents keep chasing the promise of “elite” competition people will pay and the cash grab continues. If they aren’t beating non letter league teams consistently, what are the fees for? To say they are elite?

Non letter league kids will still get competitive play, some will still play in college. But with each additional add of letter leagues, we keep diluting the pool. Again, this make work in SoCal but our pool is much smaller. When we only had ECNL and DA and one league, APL had all the next level talent. Now, it’s just alphabet soup.

 

[tjinaz]

I’m not trying to be negative, but rather realistic. I agree that both letter and non letter league players go on to play in college. Which is fantastic to see and part of why I’m raising this point.

MLS Next, ECNL and GA are all elite programs. The play is at a higher level aside from a few outliers (arsenal). It’s an easier argument that playing at an elite level justifies the expense for fees + travel - regardless of a what a kid wants to do post club play. Even if they want to college and just be a student they played at an elite level because they were good enough.

When RSL moved from one ECNL boys team to two EA teams it was no longer an elite program offering. TBD what happens with Rising’s shift from ECNL to EA. If second or third team players from a big club make an EA/DPL/RL team, it doesn’t suddenly make them elite players. Do those EA teams consistently win against the non letter league teams in tournaments? Let’s move on the ECRL on the girls side. When ECRL teams compete in tournaments, do they consistently dominate? DPL teams are easier to measure, as they still play in leagues with non letter league teams. Kudos to them for not hiding behind the elusive curtain of the elitist. Are they the top? Consistently? Maybe some are, but there are plenty that are not. With how expensive and “elite” these teams are, shouldn’t they always beat the non letter league teams? Look at the results, they don’t.

Regarding my comment that the math doesn’t work….let’s say RL/DPL player gets a scholarship to play in college. With fees being 5-10k more than non letter league teams, it’s not a reach to say that $60k was spent for a chance at a partial scholarship. Likely the family would’ve come out ahead financially by investing the extra money and using it to pay for college. But as long as parents keep chasing the promise of “elite” competition people will pay and the cash grab continues. If they aren’t beating non letter league teams consistently, what are the fees for? To say they are elite?

Non letter league kids will still get competitive play, some will still play in college. But with each additional add of letter leagues, we keep diluting the pool. Again, this make work in SoCal but our pool is much smaller. When we only had ECNL and DA and one league, APL had all the next level talent. Now, it’s just alphabet soup.

You are completely right. No doubt about it. Those DPL and ECRL teams 4 years ago would have been APL in state league. Hell those EA and ECNL boys teams too. But that is not the world we live in. Back in the day you had the single elite teams on the boys and girls sides and the rest in APL. Winning state cup actually meant something. Not anymore. There is no ROI on soccer period. Even the for the GA/ECNL/MLS players. Unless they are a boy and go pro.. you are losing money. Figure they start at U12 and 5 years of travel and registration fees at 10k or more per year. So right around 60k and that is conservative to get what maybe 10k off per year in college? I can almost guarantee every player that goes to NAU would get the same scholarship for academics they would for soccer at roughly 9k per year. The math has never worked. I confess I have gotten wrapped up in the system. I have paid crazy money that would have been better spent quitting letter leagues and putting the money in a 529c. But when your kid goes to tryouts and makes a "elite" team and you see the growth in their game, the swagger, and the commitment to play not just from the other players but their families it seems worth it. Better coaches, better facilities different uniforms. No one skips practice, no one doesn't go to the tournament because its inconvenient, everyone shows up. You just don't see that level of commitment from lower level teams. The money is just skin in the game. Granted you have this on some state league teams but not often if you find that team stay there because its a unicorn. Then you play in High School and know players on every opponent because they were teammates at one time or another because they were committed to the game. That is the pull of the "elite" and letter leagues.

 

[Soccerfamaz]

You are completely right. No doubt about it. Those DPL and ECRL teams 4 years ago would have been APL in state league. Hell those EA and ECNL boys teams too. But that is not the world we live in. Back in the day you had the single elite teams on the boys and girls sides and the rest in APL. Winning state cup actually meant something. Not anymore. There is no ROI on soccer period. Even the for the GA/ECNL/MLS players. Unless they are a boy and go pro.. you are losing money. Figure they start at U12 and 5 years of travel and registration fees at 10k or more per year. So right around 60k and that is conservative to get what maybe 10k off per year in college? I can almost guarantee every player that goes to NAU would get the same scholarship for academics they would for soccer at roughly 9k per year. The math has never worked. I confess I have gotten wrapped up in the system. I have paid crazy money that would have been better spent quitting letter leagues and putting the money in a 529c. But when your kid goes to tryouts and makes a "elite" team and you see the growth in their game, the swagger, and the commitment to play not just from the other players but their families it seems worth it. Better coaches, better facilities different uniforms. No one skips practice, no one doesn't go to the tournament because its inconvenient, everyone shows up. You just don't see that level of commitment from lower level teams. The money is just skin in the game. Granted you have this on some state league teams but not often if you find that team stay there because its a unicorn. Then you play in High School and know players on every opponent because they were teammates at one time or another because they were committed to the game. That is the pull of the "elite" and letter leagues.

Thank you for your insight. The growth, swagger and joy are all good reasons. Good coaches make a world of difference. Heck, there is little better we can do than help our kids succeed and see them strive to grow and improve. Sounds like it worked for your family and therefore money well spent.

NAU is pretty awesome in what they offer for academic scholarships.

 

[tjinaz]

Thank you for your insight. The growth, swagger and joy are all good reasons. Good coaches make a world of difference. Heck, there is little better we can do than help our kids succeed and see them strive to grow and improve. Sounds like it worked for your family and therefore money well spent.

NAU is pretty awesome in what they offer for academic scholarships.

That really is why I did it. Told my DD I did not want to limit her. If she could make the team I would pay what is needed. You end up not doing it for the scholarship but the time spent together and to let them reach their full potential. Like I said the ROI simply isn't there. What i got for my money was watching her grow, seeing some high quality soccer and spending a ton of time together traveling to games. End of the day those memories are the payoff. She will most likely play in college and I may regret not keeping that money for her education but I treasure the experiences we shared.

 

[CarlitoAlvarez]

Letter leagues in Arizona are terrible at killing any chance of decent games locally. They arent attracting the best players. It seems next level have all the best boys teams from u14 and down and they arent in any letter league. These leagues do more damage than good to Arizona. Just more costs to travel killing the state league. Clubs keep selling the coolaid but it seems the parents are more wise than the clubs hoped.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Letter leagues in Arizona are terrible at killing any chance of decent games locally. They arent attracting the best players. It seems next level have all the best boys teams from u14 and down and they arent in any letter league.

Letter leagues don't really start until the older ages. Their 2010 team is in EA. I imagine that's where the 2011 team will be next season, but anything can happen.

 

[Carlsbad7]

Maybe that works in California. But Arizona does not have the depth to continue to dilute the pool. I don’t understand the appeal of letter leagues outside of GA/ECNL/MLS Next. If RL / DPL can’t beat the non letter league teams, and they often cannot, what is the point? If you’re paying for the experience of playing on a travel team, maybe. But if people are hoping it’s a pathway to college scholarships that math doesn’t seem to work.

I don't believe in the concept of "diluting" the pool of talent. Soccer as a sport is growing in popularity. Also almost every kid then they're young plays in some form. Clubs just need to better capitalize on the opportunities available. How many kids have you seen quit playing as the get older?

If by dilution you mean with more options to play it becomes harder to create super teams then this might be occurring. But if you're doing pay to play not academy soccer you don't want superteams. Also if development is prioritized over wins superteam players should be playing up.

Chasing wins with age bound superteams lets parents and clubs brag on social media but this is occurring at the expense of developing players.

 

[FlintDempsey]

Genie is never going back in the bottle. If someone can make more money (and gain control) by creating the next "new and improved" league then they are going to do it. The thing that kills me is that people ignore the old adage: "a fool and his money are soon parted". How many times do I see teams pass by playing the good teams in their own area to play mediocre teams far away because of a league attached. I absolutely agree that there should be elite platforms (MLS Next/ECNL girls). I absolutely agree with competition in all aspects of soccer (leagues/clubs/teams). What I disagree with is the stupidity of people in falling for the sell of the middle tier leagues (ECRL/DPL/EA/EA64/EA404/EA24601/EA SPORTS). The state associations (if they had any pull, marketing, gumption, drive, grit, power) would figure out a much better (cheaper/simpler/smarter) solution. And yes, unfortunately, pot calling out the kettle...

 

[Carlsbad7]

Genie is never going back in the bottle. If someone can make more money (and gain control) by creating the next "new and improved" league then they are going to do it. The thing that kills me is that people ignore the old adage: "a fool and his money are soon parted". How many times do I see teams pass by playing the good teams in their own area to play mediocre teams far away because of a league attached. I absolutely agree that there should be elite platforms (MLS Next/ECNL girls). I absolutely agree with competition in all aspects of soccer (leagues/clubs/teams). What I disagree with is the stupidity of people in falling for the sell of the middle tier leagues (ECRL/DPL/EA/EA64/EA404/EA24601/EA SPORTS). The state associations (if they had any pull, marketing, gumption, drive, grit, power) would figure out a much better (cheaper/simpler/smarter) solution. And yes, unfortunately, pot calling out the kettle...

Thr problem with girls youth soccer is that there's no clear league for the top talent to play in. With boys you have MLS Acadamies. For boys what this does is make everyone else 2nd tier. When this happens much of the pressure to win is relieved. Records mean something but they don't mean everything.

With girls the highest level you can go is to one of the pay to play age bound superteams. Unofficially much of what's going on with MLSN Acadamies is happening at the highest girls levels as well but instead of a clearly defined program its a murky combination of parents, coaches, trainers, who you know, $$$ under the table, and player talent that gets your kid on the superteams.

Without a top level Academy type pathway for girls parents, players, coaches, etc are all stuck in endless arguments about who's better and who's best. If an Academy type pathway was available for girls there'd still be nonstop arguements but they'd always end with "if your kid/team was so go why don't they beat XZY Academy team." Or, "why isn't she on the Academy team? Just like with boys if everyone is 2nd tier to Acadamies people wouldn't be as focused on wins.