Made the Flight 1 A Team - mistake or suck it up?

Grace T. said:
Unless she's aiming for Stanford (not an Ivy but on par), with the Ivy's its hard to say. The quality of the teams vary greatly (Harvard, IIRC, is ranked in the 40s, for example). If you are going the soccer route into college, it's more a question of getting into the best soccer program available given where the teams are on any particular year...you are kind of dependent on how the soccer team is doing in recent years and where it's ranked and what positions they need. The Ivy's generally care that the student excels and stands out at one thing-- and if soccer is the one thing, then that doesn't leave her with a bunch of other arrows in her quiver-- her application will rise and fall by whether she is recruited onto the soccer team (I just went through this with a basketball applicant, for example, who wasn't recruited). Soccer isn't a great route into the Ivys as a result. It's more a question of serendipity (right time, right place, right team, right spot) and you can't really game that, but DA as a result isn't an absolute must. If it's Stanford...well, good luck to you...and yes, making the national team would help there.
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Thanks for the info Grace! Question - You mentioned Stanford being the exception to the rule - why? Also, when you say they're looking for a student that excels and stands out in one thing - do they look down on it if they excel at two or three and one of them is soccer?

Right now, while her teammates are training 3-4x/week outside of practice, she's getting into robotics, extending research projects for school, writing her own music, etc.... she just has a passion for learning, whether soccer or otherwise. And yet, while her physical size and strength is probably her weakest asset right now, she's still easily top three on the team when it comes to combined speed & skill and regularly outperforms her teammates in practice. Multiple outside coaches have said they could see her playing ODP, she was player of the week at their last camp where her age group was grouped with the year olders. Most recent coach said that he saw no flaws in her game, only to be more confident and trust her skills more. She's naturally athletic and has played multiple sports very well for her age - from basketball to golf, but there's only so much time in the day. We've been encouraging her to explore because she's young, but it's coming to a point where she needs to be more selective with her time and starting next year she's probably going to start private training and narrowing it down. Our deal with her was to pick one sport you love and excel at it (she chose soccer hands down), an academically related EC that she's passionate about and do something amazing with it, and get good grades.

I know we're digressing a bit, but also a bit related because again, if this is one of a handful of options for DA - and that's the path to national team and playing college, it has implications if we walk away - are we taking the right approach? I feel like it's so competitive that grades alone aren't enough and while her end goal is probably not a professional soccer player because she'll likely do a lot better in a different profession, she loves to play and it would be great to get to at least play at the college level when that time comes. Is National Team and DA necessary for that? As for schools she's interested in, again, it's a ways, but looking at Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, UPenn...

In other words, we're not entirely counting on soccer to get into the school of her choice, but hoping it will help and that she would get to play at that level... wrong approach?
 
G2005Defender said:
Find a new situation would be my advice if I can humbly offer it (B team or another option).

My wife and I honestly can't wait for soccer weekends to see and hangout with people that are now our friends, and see their girls that we are so deeply invested in. When a parent starts getting ultra-competitive (we all do, right?) all 14 other sets of parents tease them unmercifully and they end-up self correcting and laughing at themselves. When we made the step to flight 1 this year some of the girls couldn't take that step, and it was a truly sad moment to see some of those girls (and therefore their families also) stay on the Flight 2 team. We are bummed we (and our DD also) will only go watch their games now when they are local and there isn't an overlap.

And in a shameless plug - any chance your DD is an 'o5 in Southern OC? We are looking to add a striker or mid after the departure I mention above ;-)
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Thanks for the encouragement - we've been on teams like that before and it was SO MUCH FUN. Looked forward to practices & games, texted each other 3-4x a day, it was like extended family. Our team split too for similar reasons and at that point we decided to make a change as did many other families due to coaching changes - so we all went our separate ways. We still try to catch each others games when we can. That's what makes it harder - knowing how fun it can be when everyone supports one another and gets along! Unfortunately at times, all it takes is one bad apple.
 
LilStriker said:
Thanks for the info Grace! Question - You mentioned Stanford being the exception to the rule - why? Also, when you say they're looking for a student that excels and stands out in one thing - do they look down on it if they excel at two or three and one of them is soccer?

Right now, while her teammates are training 3-4x/week outside of practice, she's getting into robotics, extending research projects for school, writing her own music, etc.... she just has a passion for learning, whether soccer or otherwise. And yet, while her physical size and strength is probably her weakest asset right now, she's still easily top three on the team when it comes to combined speed & skill and regularly outperforms her teammates in practice. Multiple outside coaches have said they could see her playing ODP, she was player of the week at their last camp where her age group was grouped with the year olders. Most recent coach said that he saw no flaws in her game, only to be more confident and trust her skills more. She's naturally athletic and has played multiple sports very well for her age - from basketball to golf, but there's only so much time in the day. We've been encouraging her to explore because she's young, but it's coming to a point where she needs to be more selective with her time and starting next year she's probably going to start private training and narrowing it down. Our deal with her was to pick one sport you love and excel at it (she chose soccer hands down), an academically related EC that she's passionate about and do something amazing with it, and get good grades.

I know we're digressing a bit, but also a bit related because again, if this is one of a handful of options for DA - and that's the path to national team and playing college, it has implications if we walk away - are we taking the right approach? I feel like it's so competitive that grades alone aren't enough and while her end goal is probably not a professional soccer player because she'll likely do a lot better in a different profession, she loves to play and it would be great to get to at least play at the college level when that time comes. Is National Team and DA necessary for that? As for schools she's interested in, again, it's a ways, but looking at Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, UPenn...

In other words, we're not entirely counting on soccer to get into the school of her choice, but hoping it will help and that she would get to play at that level... wrong approach?
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Lots of questions buried in here and I don't have all the answer but I'll answer what I can. Stanford is different because they are a really good team (usually top 10), are Pac 10 and recruit for their teams based on performance (maybe someone else knows, but IIRC, I think they also offer sports scholarships). The Ivy League is an also-ran sports league and they (most/generally) don't offer sports scholarships...your sport is your ticket in....they look more for scholar-athletes.

Into the Ivies, you are either on the sports route or you are on the academic route. To get on the sports route, you needed to be recruited by the team. Your application goes through the same admissions committees but most of the schools will handles these applications separately in a separate pile. If you are on the academic route, your sports may actually be a liability because other than checking the athletic box in the are they well rounded portion of the evaluation, if you DD is passionate about soccer and that's her thing (her "hook") and she's spending all her time doing that, it's going to be considered a waste of time because she will have dedicated herself to something she probably won't be able to continue in college since walk ons are rare.

On the academic track, the Ivies want to see that you are passionate about something. That passion should make sense for what you want to carry forward. My favorite story is I once had a kid the school was really interested in and he was passionate about writing and even brought his novel to the interview, but then when I asked him what he wanted to do after college, he said go to Wall Street....you can imagine how that ended. It can be more than one thing, but it's really hard for students given the grades they need to maintain to sell more than one thing, plus the mandatory charity and remain time to be sociable/popular. The worst thing your DD can do is do many different things and not excel in any one thing or demonstrate any passion in it. Prospective majors are important too-- with the sciences (because of the competition from tech schools like MIT and CalTech) being easier (other than pre-med which is probably the hardest) than humanities (the arts are weird and vary school to school_. Remember every year they need that one sanskrit major to keep that department going while they have 1000s of pre-med majors.

Unfortunately, like much of life, things can be a gamble. As I said, soccer in particular is a lousy way into the Ivies (crew, on the other hand, is a different story) because if you have your heart set on Yale, if you are a GK and Yale already has the Scott Sterling (the man, the myth, the legend) you may be SOL that year. The Ivies are one part effort, one part luck and one part who you are (e.g. what state you live in, what school you go to, if you are a preference category, what's your intended major, do you have a hard luck story),
 
I'd move her to where she is happy. My dd plays for the top team in our area and she loves the girls. They all have a great time together (15/16yo) no drama, parents all get a long and it's just a fun environment and they win games - a lot. And because of their coaches attitude and positivness as well, thengirls behave accordingly. And it shows on the field. I've always emphasized to my daughter that she should only continue playing if it's fun. Otherwise what's the point?
 
LilStriker said:
Thanks for the info Grace! Question - You mentioned Stanford being the exception to the rule - why? Also, when you say they're looking for a student that excels and stands out in one thing - do they look down on it if they excel at two or three and one of them is soccer?

Right now, while her teammates are training 3-4x/week outside of practice, she's getting into robotics, extending research projects for school, writing her own music, etc.... she just has a passion for learning, whether soccer or otherwise. And yet, while her physical size and strength is probably her weakest asset right now, she's still easily top three on the team when it comes to combined speed & skill and regularly outperforms her teammates in practice. Multiple outside coaches have said they could see her playing ODP, she was player of the week at their last camp where her age group was grouped with the year olders. Most recent coach said that he saw no flaws in her game, only to be more confident and trust her skills more. She's naturally athletic and has played multiple sports very well for her age - from basketball to golf, but there's only so much time in the day. We've been encouraging her to explore because she's young, but it's coming to a point where she needs to be more selective with her time and starting next year she's probably going to start private training and narrowing it down. Our deal with her was to pick one sport you love and excel at it (she chose soccer hands down), an academically related EC that she's passionate about and do something amazing with it, and get good grades.

I know we're digressing a bit, but also a bit related because again, if this is one of a handful of options for DA - and that's the path to national team and playing college, it has implications if we walk away - are we taking the right approach? I feel like it's so competitive that grades alone aren't enough and while her end goal is probably not a professional soccer player because she'll likely do a lot better in a different profession, she loves to play and it would be great to get to at least play at the college level when that time comes. Is National Team and DA necessary for that? As for schools she's interested in, again, it's a ways, but looking at Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, UPenn...

In other words, we're not entirely counting on soccer to get into the school of her choice, but hoping it will help and that she would get to play at that level... wrong approach?
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I will keep it simple for you. If you want your DD to play for Stanford, your DD better be on the US YNT or US YNT pool. If not, she has a better chance getting into Stanford via academics, SAT and ACT.

As for playing soccer for an Ivy league school. The players do NOT need to be YNT players, but must still have a strong GPA and test scores. Girls DA helps but isn't necessary...ECNL will work too. As both will provide college exposure.

Lastly, if your DD is good at golf. I highly suggest having her play golf instead. The same universities are available to her, but if she is a phenom golfer she can make more money playing on the LPGA tour vs the NWSL.
 
LilStriker said:
She gets along with the B team girls better and hinted she'd rather play with them instead
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She either doesnt care for the coach or girls on her team.

It must be fun.... if it's not, why bother. This isnt a job. Besides, I hope we all work in a field we love...

She will blossom / develop while having fun. The fact that she practices alone @ home, tells me the "fun" still exists / the fire still burns...

Dont let a bad fitting coach or team extinguish her soccer fire.
 
LilStriker said:
Thanks for the info Grace! Question - You mentioned Stanford being the exception to the rule - why? Also, when you say they're looking for a student that excels and stands out in one thing - do they look down on it if they excel at two or three and one of them is soccer?

Right now, while her teammates are training 3-4x/week outside of practice, she's getting into robotics, extending research projects for school, writing her own music, etc.... she just has a passion for learning, whether soccer or otherwise. And yet, while her physical size and strength is probably her weakest asset right now, she's still easily top three on the team when it comes to combined speed & skill and regularly outperforms her teammates in practice. Multiple outside coaches have said they could see her playing ODP, she was player of the week at their last camp where her age group was grouped with the year olders. Most recent coach said that he saw no flaws in her game, only to be more confident and trust her skills more. She's naturally athletic and has played multiple sports very well for her age - from basketball to golf, but there's only so much time in the day. We've been encouraging her to explore because she's young, but it's coming to a point where she needs to be more selective with her time and starting next year she's probably going to start private training and narrowing it down. Our deal with her was to pick one sport you love and excel at it (she chose soccer hands down), an academically related EC that she's passionate about and do something amazing with it, and get good grades.

I know we're digressing a bit, but also a bit related because again, if this is one of a handful of options for DA - and that's the path to national team and playing college, it has implications if we walk away - are we taking the right approach? I feel like it's so competitive that grades alone aren't enough and while her end goal is probably not a professional soccer player because she'll likely do a lot better in a different profession, she loves to play and it would be great to get to at least play at the college level when that time comes. Is National Team and DA necessary for that? As for schools she's interested in, again, it's a ways, but looking at Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, UPenn...

In other words, we're not entirely counting on soccer to get into the school of her choice, but hoping it will help and that she would get to play at that level... wrong approach?
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Are you a trolling us? She's all of what, 9, and you're talking about National Team and Yale? This is a joke, right?
 
chargerfan said:
Are you a trolling us? She's all of what, 9, and you're talking about National Team and Yale? This is a joke, right?
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Dude!! He or she has been reading about 8th graders getting committed. When is too early? I have a 3 yr old nephew that can shoot the lights out on his little Playco b-ball hoop. Told my sister to start sending out video, you never know!
 
chargerfan said:
Are you a trolling us? She's all of what, 9, and you're talking about National Team and Yale? This is a joke, right?
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Dang unicorn's again. Have a drink

GkCYksyq-1280-1280.jpg
 
Kicknit22 said:
Dude!! He or she has been reading about 8th graders getting committed. When is too early? I have a 3 yr old nephew that can shoot the lights out on his little Playco b-ball hoop. Told my sister to start sending out video, you never know!
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Harvard-bound kid, for sure!!
 
NoGoal said:
I will keep it simple for you. If you want your DD to play for Stanford, your DD better be on the US YNT or US YNT pool. If not, she has a better chance getting into Stanford via academics, SAT and ACT.

As for playing soccer for an Ivy league school. The players do NOT need to be YNT players, but must still have a strong GPA and test scores. Girls DA helps but isn't necessary...ECNL will work too. As both will provide college exposure.

Lastly, if your DD is good at golf. I highly suggest having her play golf instead. The same universities are available to her, but if she is a phenom golfer she can make more money playing on the LPGA tour vs the NWSL.
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AMEN!! Crew, Golf, Lacrosse, Field Hockey MUCH MORE RECRUITING OPTIONS to sneak into an Ivy
 
Striker17 said:
Sounds sincere that's why I was trying to be nice.
Remember parents are fed this stuff they don't come up with it on their own.
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That is true. We live in an environment where parents are trying to create little superstars, and there is increasing pressure to make sure they are "special". I can understand how this could affect a parent just trying to do the best for their kid.
 
chargerfan said:
That is true. We live in an environment where parents are trying to create little superstars, and there is increasing pressure to make sure they are "special". I can understand how this could affect a parent just trying to do the best for their kid.
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Meh....the competition has gotten a lot more intense on both the sports and academic fronts....my sons (still in elementary school) have classmates who pretty much spend their afternoons at Kumon or Chinese Learning Center and then are packed off for music/sports/art classes until a late evening dinner....not to mention the competition now from overseas (since overseas they track and kids that don't make it there are sent packing over here)...my grades back then certainly aren't good enough now....so I get why parents freak out. The OP has one thing right, though, which is 9th grade is the time if I kid is bound for the elite schools whether to go on the academic or sports tracks since they are very different and time is not unlimited.

I agree Lacrosse, crew, field hockey and swimming are all better ways to sneak into an Ivy. I disagree though about golf (or tennis before anyone mentions it)....unless they are the best of the best....too many wannabe families stick their kids into golf or tennis to check the sports box for mediocre athletes so the applicants are very numerous with these....unless they are the best of the best, being an above average golf/tennis sports kids won't help and if you are really good going to the pro circuit will make a lot more than soccer.
 
Grace T. said:
Meh....the competition has gotten a lot more intense on both the sports and academic fronts....my sons (still in elementary school) have classmates who pretty much spend their afternoons at Kumon or Chinese Learning Center and then are packed off for music/sports/art classes until a late evening dinner....not to mention the competition now from overseas (since overseas they track and kids that don't make it there are sent packing over here)...my grades back then certainly aren't good enough now....so I get why parents freak out. The OP has one thing right, though, which is 9th grade is the time if I kid is bound for the elite schools whether to go on the academic or sports tracks since they are very different and time is not unlimited.

I agree Lacrosse, crew, field hockey and swimming are all better ways to sneak into an Ivy. I disagree though about golf (or tennis before anyone mentions it)....unless they are the best of the best....too many wannabe families stick their kids into golf or tennis to check the sports box for mediocre athletes so the applicants are very numerous with these....unless they are the best of the best, being an above average golf/tennis sports kids won't help and if you are really good going to the pro circuit will make a lot more than soccer.
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I have seen more than one "exceptional" kid go from A's to C's in high school, and "/or lose interest in whatever sport or activity they were so amazing at. I say freshman year is a bit too early to have a definite idea about their college path.

I am also one of those that would now not into the colleges I was accepted to back in the day. It's a shame that kids now need to be almost superhuman to get into one of this country's top colleges. An interesting case study is S.Korea, where kids spend pretty much their whole day working on academics, music, and any activity deemed by their parents helpful to get into college. Their unhappiness and suicide rates are, as a result, unbelievably high.
 
Striker17 said:
Sounds sincere that's why I was trying to be nice.
Remember parents are fed this stuff they don't come up with it on their own.
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Thanks. =) Not trolling by any means, but due to the sensitive nature of the topic, sorry can't really discuss age group/club/etc... All I can say is that we have several friends with DD's that are just slightly older and they're already getting interest emails from multiple schools after playing recent showcases. It was a huge eye opener for us. We recognize anything can change along the way, but if you have a goal or direction in mind, at least you can set yourself up better for success so that it will be an option.

Example - the average person (incl. myself) thinks that being well rounded was what schools look for - it's generally a desired trait and we're often impressed by these multi-athletes or incredibly talented people who are good at just about everything.

Yet, based on what Grace is saying, it seems the elite academic schools (not nec. athletically elite) are looking for excellence in one discipline - are they going to care if you also starred in basketball, volleyball, and know 10 languages, etc...? prob. not. From a parenting perspective, this has huge implications because it tells me, stop worrying about making sure my kid gets to try everything under the sun or get good at it, rather encourage her to find something she really likes and let her run with and then use the time you get back to make sure you get good grades - or just hang out with friends or family. The idea that college is a university where you figure out what you want to do is now a myth. And the sooner we let her "specialize", the more significant her accomplishments will be when it comes time for college applications.

People complain a lot about the "glass ceiling", how it's unfair that wealthy kids are more likely to be successful, etc... Honestly, while money does get you places, the REAL advantage is the ultra successful know the right path to get to where they want to be and they set their kids on it. It's not an exact science by any means, and many of them fail while many of us "luck" into it... But your chances of success are much higher if you know how to get there because it's a straighter path. Ever wonder why that other guy who doesn't perform as well as you got the promotion? Why didn't you get admitted to a certain school even though you had better grades? Why isn't your kid starting even though she's better than chloe? It's not because anyone is trying to hold you back or the world is against you, it's more likely because you didn't set yourself up for success and you never took the time to find out what they're looking for - understand the "rules of the game" and you're more likely to win. Instead, we're focusing our energy on things that won't ultimately make a difference when it comes to those goals and even worse, sometimes you get dinged for it when you thought it would help.

If my kid doesn't have to play DA in order to have a chance to play for an Ivy, it takes some stress out of the equation if nothing else...
 
LilStriker said:
Thanks. =) Not trolling by any means, but due to the sensitive nature of the topic, sorry can't really discuss age group/club/etc... All I can say is that we have several friends with DD's that are just slightly older and they're already getting interest emails from multiple schools after playing recent showcases. It was a huge eye opener for us. We recognize anything can change along the way, but if you have a goal or direction in mind, at least you can set yourself up better for success so that it will be an option.

Example - the average person (incl. myself) thinks that being well rounded was what schools look for - it's generally a desired trait and we're often impressed by these multi-athletes or incredibly talented people who are good at just about everything.

Yet, based on what Grace is saying, it seems the elite academic schools (not nec. athletically elite) are looking for excellence in one discipline - are they going to care if you also starred in basketball, volleyball, etc...? prob. not. From a parenting perspective, this has huge implications because it tells me, stop worrying about making sure my kid gets to try everything under the sun, rather encourage her to find something she really likes and let her run with and then use the time you get back to make sure you get good grades - or just hang out with friends or family. The idea that college is a university where you figure out what you want to do is now a myth. And the sooner we let her "specialize", the more significant her accomplishments will be when it comes time for college applications.

People complain a lot about the "glass ceiling", how it's unfair that wealthy kids are more likely to be successful, etc... Honestly, while money does get you places, the REAL advantage is the ultra successful know the right path to get to where they want to be and they set their kids on it. It's not an exact science by any means, and many of them fail while many of us "luck" into it... But your chances of success are much higher if you know how to get there because it's a straighter path. Ever wonder why that other guy who doesn't perform as well as you got the promotion? Why didn't you get admitted to a certain school even though you had better grades? Why isn't your kid starting even though she's better than chloe? It's not because anyone is trying to hold you back or the world is against you, it's more likely because you didn't set yourself up for success and you never took the time to find out what they're looking for - understand the "rules of the game" and you're more likely to win. Instead, we're focusing our energy on things that won't ultimately make a difference when it comes to those goals and even worse, sometimes you get dinged for it when you thought it would help.

If my kid doesn't have to play DA in order to have a chance to play for an Ivy, it takes some stress out of the equation if nothing else...
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You sure have drifted from your opening post. FYI, D1 college coaches can't email HS freshmen and sophomores. What your friends DDs are receiving are email blasts for their camps.
 
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