Days between Games- 2 games a weekend is a BAD idea

[timbuck]

WFA_Study-on-recovery-days

WFA_Study-on-recovery-days Read more about europa, teams, goals, amsterdam, verheijen and stoke.

www.yumpu.com

Study from 2012 across pro leagues in Europe.

Summary: Teams that don't have at least 3 days of rest between games are at a significant disadvantage when playing teams with sufficient rest.

I don't think you need to be a "rocket surgeon" to recognize that players with proper recovery and rest are better suited for a competitive match.
So why do leagues/tournaments/clubs/parents continue to run players out on back-to-back days?

Leagues: We need to get in 10-12 games during a season. And we can't do that unless we play almost every Saturday and Sunday. And now we will allow a player to play 2 games in a day (League didn't allow this 2 years ago. But now that we have teams dealing with covid fallout, they seem to think it's ok)
Tournaments: 2 games in a day for 2-3 days in a row is necessary to crown a champion.
Clubs: Our B team only has 13 players for this weekend. Let's take 4 players from the A team and have them fill in. Now that the league allows it, the A team players will play 2 games on Saturday and 2 games on Sunday. But they are on the A team- More soccer is good for them.
Parents: Little Jenny loves soccer. She'll play any day she can. She played 2 games with her club on Saturday (the A team coach wants to see her play with them more often). And she played a game on Sunday. She started all 3 games and never subbed out. Then she went and played a pickup game with her brothers friends sunday afternoon. She can't wait for practice on Monday. Their Monday practice is for fitness. She really needs fitness training. She seems to be getting slower.

 

[dad4]

WFA_Study-on-recovery-days

WFA_Study-on-recovery-days Read more about europa, teams, goals, amsterdam, verheijen and stoke.

www.yumpu.com

Study from 2012 across pro leagues in Europe.

Summary: Teams that don't have at least 3 days of rest between games are at a significant disadvantage when playing teams with sufficient rest.

I don't think you need to be a "rocket surgeon" to recognize that players with proper recovery and rest are better suited for a competitive match.
So why do leagues/tournaments/clubs/parents continue to run players out on back-to-back days?

Leagues: We need to get in 10-12 games during a season. And we can't do that unless we play almost every Saturday and Sunday. And now we will allow a player to play 2 games in a day (League didn't allow this 2 years ago. But now that we have teams dealing with covid fallout, they seem to think it's ok)
Tournaments: 2 games in a day for 2-3 days in a row is necessary to crown a champion.
Clubs: Our B team only has 13 players for this weekend. Let's take 4 players from the A team and have them fill in. Now that the league allows it, the A team players will play 2 games on Saturday and 2 games on Sunday. But they are on the A team- More soccer is good for them.
Parents: Little Jenny loves soccer. She'll play any day she can. She played 2 games with her club on Saturday (the A team coach wants to see her play with them more often). And she played a game on Sunday. She started all 3 games and never subbed out. Then she went and played a pickup game with her brothers friends sunday afternoon. She can't wait for practice on Monday. Their Monday practice is for fitness. She really needs fitness training. She seems to be getting slower.

It’s a financial issue for the top 20-50 teams nationally at each age group, at least the ones not from socal.

Your closest good matches might still be very far away. It’s hard to justify a 400 mile trip to play one game. That 4 games in 2 days tournament is looking like a better deal.

Even if you did want to do 2 games over 3 days, how would you arrange it when all the other top teams do ECNL or MLS + tournments?

 

[crush]

WFA_Study-on-recovery-days

WFA_Study-on-recovery-days Read more about europa, teams, goals, amsterdam, verheijen and stoke.

www.yumpu.com

Study from 2012 across pro leagues in Europe.

Summary: Teams that don't have at least 3 days of rest between games are at a significant disadvantage when playing teams with sufficient rest.

I don't think you need to be a "rocket surgeon" to recognize that players with proper recovery and rest are better suited for a competitive match.
So why do leagues/tournaments/clubs/parents continue to run players out on back-to-back days?

Leagues: We need to get in 10-12 games during a season. And we can't do that unless we play almost every Saturday and Sunday. And now we will allow a player to play 2 games in a day (League didn't allow this 2 years ago. But now that we have teams dealing with covid fallout, they seem to think it's ok)
Tournaments: 2 games in a day for 2-3 days in a row is necessary to crown a champion.
Clubs: Our B team only has 13 players for this weekend. Let's take 4 players from the A team and have them fill in. Now that the league allows it, the A team players will play 2 games on Saturday and 2 games on Sunday. But they are on the A team- More soccer is good for them.
Parents: Little Jenny loves soccer. She'll play any day she can. She played 2 games with her club on Saturday (the A team coach wants to see her play with them more often). And she played a game on Sunday. She started all 3 games and never subbed out. Then she went and played a pickup game with her brothers friends sunday afternoon. She can't wait for practice on Monday. Their Monday practice is for fitness. She really needs fitness training. She seems to be getting slower.

One game on Saturday and one on Wednesday Coach. Sunday, no more games. It's should be a day with family and fun. This soccer has gotten way out of hand. I told my two years straight to only play one game and it goes in one aer and out the other. We need help big time. Back to back and work is a bit too much, moo. She plays to win and works to win too.

 

[Yousername]

We had back to backs this weekend- one in San Bernardino and one in Norco. If the heat wasn’t bad enough on day 1, you can imagine how bad it was on all of them by the end of game day 2. Totally in support of not having 2 games on the weekend, especially every weekend.

 

[notintheface]

Their Monday practice is for fitness.

If their coach doesn't give them the day off after Sat/Sun, maybe have a word. At most it should be a day of extremely low-impact work. Set plays, crossbar challenge, whatever.

 

[Chelseafc]

May

We had back to backs this weekend- one in San Bernardino and one in Norco. If the heat wasn’t bad enough on day 1, you can imagine how bad it was on all of them by the end of game day 2. Totally in support of not having 2 games on the weekend, especially every weekend.

be that’s why certain clubs are rescheduling.

 

[Chelseafc]

May

We had back to backs this weekend- one in San Bernardino and one in Norco. If the heat wasn’t bad enough on day 1, you can imagine how bad it was on all of them by the end of game day 2. Totally in support of not having 2 games on the weekend, especially every weekend.

Maybe that’s why certain clubs are rescheduling.

 

[supercell]

There are a few aspects to consider including injury risk, development, and performance.
I would put that injury risk is not that significant in youth soccer provided there is sufficient rest time during the week. If you're going to play two on the weekend, there has to be some compensation on Monday and perhaps Tuesday. It's primarily when you train 4 days per week, and then have 2 weekend games week after week that injury risk is increased. From a development perspective, it's fairly obvious that more game time leads to better development. Finally, you have performance. Taking this study at face value, performance does appear to drop off with insufficient recovery time. Pretty obvious. Taking all 3 in consideration, my opinion is that 2 games per weekend is a good trade for youths playing at an advanced level.
Further, logistically in our country, 2 games per weekend has alot of leverage for leagues like ECNL with long travel. It becomes much easier and cheaper to package away games in pairs.

 

[timbuck]

There are a few aspects to consider including injury risk, development, and performance.
I would put that injury risk is not that significant in youth soccer provided there is sufficient rest time during the week. If you're going to play two on the weekend, there has to be some compensation on Monday and perhaps Tuesday. It's primarily when you train 4 days per week, and then have 2 weekend games week after week that injury risk is increased. From a development perspective, it's fairly obvious that more game time leads to better development. Finally, you have performance. Taking this study at face value, performance does appear to drop off with insufficient recovery time. Pretty obvious. Taking all 3 in consideration, my opinion is that 2 games per weekend is a good trade for youths playing at an advanced level.
Further, logistically in our country, 2 games per weekend has alot of leverage for leagues like ECNL with long travel. It becomes much easier and cheaper to package away games in pairs.

I highlighted "youth soccer" here because I agree with you until about 13 or 14 years old. Once they start playing 80 and 90 minute games- These are essentially adult bodies for the majority of players (females especially).
And for an ECNL team that has a large roster- If players are rotating maybe not as big of a deal.
But for your F1/Discovery team with a roster of anything less than 16- It's a lot to put on a developing athlete.

 

[Simisoccerfan]

There was a national league that did this. Even guaranteed every player a certain minimum number of starts. Was universally pooped on by parents and this forum. The league no longer exists.

 

[timbuck]

There was a national league that did this. Even guaranteed every player a certain minimum number of starts. Was universally pooped on by parents and this forum. The league no longer exists.

What you described was one of the best things to come out of "that league"-

 

[ChrisD]

maybe its not the club and its the parents fault for thinking that much soccer is good for a kid over a weekend.

 

[timbuck]

If their coach doesn't give them the day off after Sat/Sun, maybe have a word. At most it should be a day of extremely low-impact work. Set plays, crossbar challenge, whatever.

That's another issue if you are playing for multiple teams for your club each weekend. Maybe you played for the "other" team on Sunday. That team trains on Tuesdays. But your team practices on Monday and didn't have a game on Sunday.

 

[MacDre]

Letter leagues and flight 1 soccer are primarily a sham. The vast majority of players lack basic fundamentals and are not elite.

The problems with the lack of rest and recovery stems from coaches having to earn their pay. There isn’t much development going on in these games as many players lack basic fundamentals. I understand folks have to make a living so, it is what it is.

I’m convinced all high school sports are the way to go. I don’t see how high school soccer games are lower quality or more dangerous than letter leagues as they both have many players that lack basic fundamentals. I think folks are falling for marketing and are not actually paying attention to what’s going in these letter league games; IDK, maybe it the cool backpacks the players get because it sure isn’t the level of play.

I’m confident my player participating in high school XC, soccer, and swim team will develop her better than any coach in any letter league with a substantially lower risk of injury.

Coaches have to get paid and therein lies the real problem.

My player was at the skatepark chilling and chopping it up with her patnas this weekend. She’s fully rested and recovered for XC practice today.

 

[lafalafa]

News flash: most club pay to play sports are not setup or consider what's best for players.

Most tournaments, leagues, clubs put finances before players so they don't care of you played at 5pm 100 miles away from home and then schedule you a 8am the very next day at another remote complex.

Many parents go along with charade for a while but the kids get tired of it after a while which contributies to the huge drop out rates. If youth soccer clubs keep graduation rates like schools do you might be surprised that < 50% of U9 players are still around at u18/19 and < 10% of high school players play in college. Only 2% of high school athletes (1 in 57) go on to play at NCAA Division I schools.

The odds are really not in most players favor unless you like The hunger games.

Don't much too much stock in youth sports, invest in your kids education or crypto which is about the only thing more volatile than club soccer with likely a worse return.

Yeah yeah we don't think of it as a investment blah blah. Disposable income entertainment but I don't know spending 6 hours away for 60-90 mins of play doesn't sound entertaining to me.

 

[BIGD]

Letter leagues and flight 1 soccer are primarily a sham. The vast majority of players lack basic fundamentals and are not elite.

The problems with the lack of rest and recovery stems from coaches having to earn their pay. There isn’t much development going on in these games as many players lack basic fundamentals. I understand folks have to make a living so, it is what it is.

I’m convinced all high school sports are the way to go. I don’t see how high school soccer games are lower quality or more dangerous than letter leagues as they both have many players that lack basic fundamentals. I think folks are falling for marketing and are not actually paying attention to what’s going in these letter league games; IDK, maybe it the cool backpacks the players get because it sure isn’t the level of play.

I’m confident my player participating in high school XC, soccer, and swim team will develop her better than any coach in any letter league with a substantially lower risk of injury.

Coaches have to get paid and therein lies the real problem.

My player was at the skatepark chilling and chopping it up with her patnas this weekend. She’s fully rested and recovered for XC practice today.

This is so spot on. Went to a D1 soccer match recently and the quality was terrible. My 12 year old is playing a similar level of soccer.

Would love to see a movement back to multiple sports (all the data tells us this is better for kids and athletic performance), and a return to high school sports participation. We’ve all been fed a bunch of BS from year round travel team marketing and it’s not in the best interest of the kids.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

WFA_Study-on-recovery-days

WFA_Study-on-recovery-days Read more about europa, teams, goals, amsterdam, verheijen and stoke.

www.yumpu.com

Study from 2012 across pro leagues in Europe.

Summary: Teams that don't have at least 3 days of rest between games are at a significant disadvantage when playing teams with sufficient rest.

I don't think you need to be a "rocket surgeon" to recognize that players with proper recovery and rest are better suited for a competitive match.
So why do leagues/tournaments/clubs/parents continue to run players out on back-to-back days?

Leagues: We need to get in 10-12 games during a season. And we can't do that unless we play almost every Saturday and Sunday. And now we will allow a player to play 2 games in a day (League didn't allow this 2 years ago. But now that we have teams dealing with covid fallout, they seem to think it's ok)
Tournaments: 2 games in a day for 2-3 days in a row is necessary to crown a champion.
Clubs: Our B team only has 13 players for this weekend. Let's take 4 players from the A team and have them fill in. Now that the league allows it, the A team players will play 2 games on Saturday and 2 games on Sunday. But they are on the A team- More soccer is good for them.
Parents: Little Jenny loves soccer. She'll play any day she can. She played 2 games with her club on Saturday (the A team coach wants to see her play with them more often). And she played a game on Sunday. She started all 3 games and never subbed out. Then she went and played a pickup game with her brothers friends sunday afternoon. She can't wait for practice on Monday. Their Monday practice is for fitness. She really needs fitness training. She seems to be getting slower.

In the older age groups (about U13/U14 and above for girls) I'd say there is generally too much emphasis on the importance of playing games and not enough on challenging training and controlled scrimmages. Much can be accomplished in training by using mixed age groups and training with boys at times. One game a weekend is all I want at this point. I'd take one in the middle of the week if it can be arranged. Consider the ECNL Playoffs. To make it to the semifinals last season in U17 a girls' team would play 4 games in 6 days. In the 2018 World Cup the French mens' team played their first 4 games over 15 days. Whereas an ECNL team had 2 days off during their 4 games, the French team had 11 days off.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

Letter leagues and flight 1 soccer are primarily a sham. The vast majority of players lack basic fundamentals and are not elite.

The problems with the lack of rest and recovery stems from coaches having to earn their pay. There isn’t much development going on in these games as many players lack basic fundamentals. I understand folks have to make a living so, it is what it is.

I’m convinced all high school sports are the way to go. I don’t see how high school soccer games are lower quality or more dangerous than letter leagues as they both have many players that lack basic fundamentals. I think folks are falling for marketing and are not actually paying attention to what’s going in these letter league games; IDK, maybe it the cool backpacks the players get because it sure isn’t the level of play.

I’m confident my player participating in high school XC, soccer, and swim team will develop her better than any coach in any letter league with a substantially lower risk of injury.

Coaches have to get paid and therein lies the real problem.

My player was at the skatepark chilling and chopping it up with her patnas this weekend. She’s fully rested and recovered for XC practice today.

I agree with the idea that there are other ways to reach soccer potential than the letter leagues. I'd argue you missed the mark a bit on HS soccer vs. club. Maybe it's just my experience with the two clubs my daughter played in but I haven't heard one girl say anything close to "HS soccer skill level is as good as club". The other thing each said is the fouling is worse and it's more physical. Every player I spoke to played HS soccer for the social aspect. That's something HS easily has over club sports. Also, while there are other paths to college soccer, ECNL is a common one that has the bulk of the top recruits. I think it's more following the well-worn path than marketing. I do like the creativity you are putting into your daughter's path. If it's working for her, that's good for everyone. Others may find the path she takes is better for their daughter. I'm a fan of choices.

 

[MacDre]

I agree with the idea that there are other ways to reach soccer potential than the letter leagues. I'd argue you missed the mark a bit on HS soccer vs. club. Maybe it's just my experience with the two clubs my daughter played in but I haven't heard one girl say anything close to "HS soccer skill level is as good as club". The other thing each said is the fouling is worse and it's more physical. Every player I spoke to played HS soccer for the social aspect. That's something HS easily has over club sports. Also, while there are other paths to college soccer, ECNL is a common one that has the bulk of the top recruits. I think it's more following the well-worn path than marketing. I do like the creativity you are putting into your daughter's path. If it's working for her, that's good for everyone. Others may find the path she takes is better for their daughter. I'm a fan of choices.

I think choice is good but that ain’t what I’m talking about. My position is that if your player is in a letter league, you are most likely being hustled and not getting the benefit of your bargain. My kid wants to play club soccer but she said developing in club soccer is like “chasing unicorns.” I’ve also seen some kids juggle skillfully, or make a sick move on the wrong part of the field. But, I respectfully submit that the skill you are seeing displayed in club soccer is not the skill needed to be elite. The emphasis is wrong and the skills of which you speak are a distinction without a difference. Speed of play and decision making make a player elite and these skills are lacking in all of club soccer including the so called elite letter leagues.

Caveat Emptor!!’

 

[kickingandscreaming]

I think choice is good but that ain’t what I’m talking about. My position is that if your player is in a letter league, you are most likely being hustled and not getting the benefit of your bargain. My kid wants to play club soccer but she said developing in club soccer is like “chasing unicorns.” I’ve also seen some kids juggle skillfully, or make a sick move on the wrong part of the field. But, I respectfully submit that the skill you are seeing displayed in club soccer is not the skill needed to be elite. The emphasis is wrong and the skills of which you speak are a distinction without a difference. Speed of play and decision making make a player elite and these skills are lacking in all of club soccer including the so called elite letter leagues.

Caveat Emptor!!’

I like it. I take it she's getting her rondos and other speed-of-play work somewhere other than HS, right? Also, "elite" is in the eye of the beholder and qualitative. Just for reference, what is your estimate of the number of elite girls soccer players in the US? (I roughly estimate about 12,000 girls - 750 teams * 16 players/team - of ECNL age playing ECNL).