Clarification on scrimmages and practices please

M

MamaBear5

SILVER ELITE
High school coach isn't being real clear with communication so I am turning to the experts. Players can play in a preseason scrimmage and then compete in a club tournament? In the past you could play in unsanctioned games with no refs and then return to club play...but I am hearing the scrimmage will have refs??

Can a player still practice with the club team once high school games have started? I know they can't play games with the club but is practice against CIF?

Player will be primarily JV but might see some varsity time.
 
My understanding is that practice with your club team is not alllowed. And anything that has 5 or more players from your club team assembled together is considered a “practice”. Not sure if it matters if there is a coach or a soccer ball present (ie- fitness training)
 
MamaBear5 said:
High school coach isn't being real clear with communication so I am turning to the experts. Players can play in a preseason scrimmage and then compete in a club tournament? In the past you could play in unsanctioned games with no refs and then return to club play...but I am hearing the scrimmage will have refs??

Can a player still practice with the club team once high school games have started? I know they can't play games with the club but is practice against CIF?

Player will be primarily JV but might see some varsity time.
Click to expand...
It depends upon the CIF Section in which your player's school has membership. The rules apply to all levels of play, V, JV or F/S.

In the Southern Section practicing with an outside team is permitted but playing a game or scrimmage is not.

In the San Diego Section practicing with an outside team is not permitted. See Rule 600.1c
c. During a San Diego Section athlete’s season of sport, he or she may not practice with an outside team or in any group setting in the same sport and may not attend a tryout or “showcase” for any club, organization or outside team in the same sport.

In the CIFSDS, practice is defined as organized, systematic exercise to become proficient in a sport with more than one student-athlete. Prohibited activities in the CIFSDS include, but not limited to, skill drills, game situation drills, scrimmages and games, or any other directed or supervised instruction of more than one student-athlete by any individual associated with an outside team, organization or “club”.
Click to expand...
 
I am not an expert but I understand it the same as timbuck said if I read him correctly. I was told by HS that once you play an official HS game (scrimmages like in summer do not count I assume same as scrimmages now), you cannot play any other organized sport. To be considered "organized" it takes something as simple as is there a referee in the other non HS CIF sport. For example you cannot play in an indoor or futsal game even if it's without club or HS teammates if there is a ref or score or standings. Im sure pick up games don't matter so much but it's a risk cause If you do and you get caught your HS team has to forfeit games.
 
ToonArmy said:
I am not an expert but I understand it the same as timbuck said if I read him correctly. I was told by HS that once you play an official HS game (scrimmages like in summer do not count I assume same as scrimmages now), you cannot play any other organized sport. To be considered "organized" it takes something as simple as is there a referee in the other non HS CIF sport. For example you cannot play in an indoor or futsal game even if it's without club or HS teammates if there is a ref or score or standings. Im sure pick up games don't matter so much but it's a risk cause If you do and you get caught your HS team has to forfeit games.
Click to expand...
Read the SDS Green Book for the rules about outside competition, specifically Article 60. (Rule 600 et seq)
The rules banning outside competition apply to the "same sport." In the case of soccer, both indoor soccer and futsal are specifically identified as not being the "same sport" as soccer.
 
I’d think with games 2-3 days a week and practice the other 2-3, that most players wouldn’t be looking for another team practice.
Private training or strength/speed maybe.
 
ToonArmy said:
I was told differently. Interesting. Will look into it.
Click to expand...

the CIF bylaws (the overarching statewide ones) are expressly clear that Futsal is not the same as soccer for in season competition. Also under state rules the restrictions are for the same sport only so a kid could play another sport without impacting eligibility w/r/t playing HS soccer (looks like one of the sections differs there - sections can be more restrictive but not more permissive than the state).

I’d be careful about playing any club game following any organized HS scrimmage and I would not necessarily trust the coach or AD. I’d want something in writing from the section itself. The penalties can be severe if you guess wrong and another teams waits until section playoffs to drop a dime.

I’ve posted on other threads the relevant clauses from the CIF bylaws. I'm traveling now so can’t.
 
Why would you want your kid to practice 5 times a week including games and add 2-3 club practices on top of that? Just practice and play with the high school team and put the club team on hold for a couple months. No point in risking overuse injuries or burnout.
 
MamaBear5 said:
High school coach isn't being real clear with communication so I am turning to the experts. Players can play in a preseason scrimmage and then compete in a club tournament? In the past you could play in unsanctioned games with no refs and then return to club play...but I am hearing the scrimmage will have refs??

Can a player still practice with the club team once high school games have started? I know they can't play games with the club but is practice against CIF?

Player will be primarily JV but might see some varsity time.
Click to expand...
Is your club coach trying to hold practices?
What age group? How many on the team are playing in high school? Is there something big coming up for your club team that requires training during this time frame?
 
Regular coach is not holding practices but kiddo can train with the keeper coach during the DA practices for free as opposed to us having to pay for privates/semi-privates during the high school season. High school keeper training is hit or miss.
 
MamaBear5 said:
Regular coach is not holding practices but kiddo can train with the keeper coach during the DA practices for free as opposed to us having to pay for privates/semi-privates during the high school season. High school keeper training is hit or miss.
Click to expand...
Just play high school and skip the club training and privates. She will get more than enough touches in the HS practices and games.
 
Surfref said:
Just play high school and skip the club training and privates. She will get more than enough touches in the HS practices and games.
Click to expand...

agreed. No elite player is going to experience a notable diminishing of skills because of the brief HS season. If that were the case, fewer players would be recovering from injuries that require months without even touching the ball. I’d say the thing for a non-elite players as well - why even consider contemplating a sacrifice of playing with friends and for your school if that is something you want to do? You never get it back.

(my kid is committed to playing college next year and she loves playing HS soccer for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with soccer. And playing HS has not impacted her soccer future in the least)
 
I
twoclubpapa said:
It depends upon the CIF Section in which your player's school has membership. The rules apply to all levels of play, V, JV or F/S.

In the Southern Section practicing with an outside team is permitted but playing a game or scrimmage is not.

In the San Diego Section practicing with an outside team is not permitted. See Rule 600.1c
Click to expand...
Many moons ago in San Diego, there was a club coach that made his players attend practices during the high school season. He called it “conditioning” to get around the rule and got away with it. Funny thing was that the conditioning always involved a soccer ball.

I always tell people that once there is a ref at even a scrimmage, you cannot go back to your club team. But to be safe, once you even scrimmage another team, I would not practice with your club team. San Diego CIF is totally F’d up and not worth taking a risk.
 
You want to get it right. And this is what happens if, despite thinking you get it right, you don’t. https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2013/02/21/palo-alto-girls-soccer-forfeits-ccs-victory

(Sometimes US Soccer does submit in time but CIF does not publish here: https://www.cifstate.org/governance/odp . And that list is the critical one - if a camp or ODP or PDP (up here) appears, it’s fine to participate in scrimmages or games without suffering an eligibility hit. At least at the state level (not sure if any sections are more restrictive. I can’t imagine that in this context). In fact, the way it works is that US Soccer submits to the NFHS who then passes it along to the different states. I have dealt with NFHS and CIF when the former was insistent it has submitted the list twice but CIF did not update without some nudging by someone I know. CIF’s attitude has been that these elite players are not crucial so they should make the choice. HS soccer does not need them)
 
Fact said:
I

Many moons ago in San Diego, there was a club coach that made his players attend practices during the high school season. He called it “conditioning” to get around the rule and got away with it. Funny thing was that the conditioning always involved a soccer ball.

I always tell people that once there is a ref at even a scrimmage, you cannot go back to your club team. But to be safe, once you even scrimmage another team, I would not practice with your club team. San Diego CIF is totally F’d up and not worth taking a risk.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't go that far, but CIF-SDS have made some surprising rulings. Example - when my daughter was a Freshman on her school's JV girls lacrosse team, they went to a one-day round-robin event (several short games) in Northern California on the first Saturday of Spring Break. At the same time, the Varsity girls went to Colorado to play a couple of teams there (a spring break trip was traditional in the program). When CIF-SDS heard about it, they ruled that because some of the teams in the Northern California event were varsity teams, than that event counted as 2 games against the game limit for the Varsity team, so they were forced to forfeit their last two regular season games, and thus missed a chance at the League title and the Section playoffs. The coach was fired and the Varsity team was forbidden to travel out of state then next year.

Then there was the case of the Madison High School star quarterback, whose family moved from Phoenix just in time for him to lead the team to a CIF title. CIF-SDS ruled that because the father was still commuting occasionally back to Phoenix for his job, the family had only moved here for athletic reasons, and took away the title. The case went back and forth in the courts and (I think, if I remember correctly) the player and the Madison wins were re-instated.
 
dk_b said:
the CIF bylaws (the overarching statewide ones) are expressly clear that Futsal is not the same as soccer for in season competition. Also under state rules the restrictions are for the same sport only so a kid could play another sport without impacting eligibility w/r/t playing HS soccer (looks like one of the sections differs there - sections can be more restrictive but not more permissive than the state).

I’d be careful about playing any club game following any organized HS scrimmage and I would not necessarily trust the coach or AD. I’d want something in writing from the section itself. The penalties can be severe if you guess wrong and another teams waits until section playoffs to drop a dime.

I’ve posted on other threads the relevant clauses from the CIF bylaws. I'm traveling now so can’t.
Click to expand...
We just had one of our player, play in what was supposed be a non official HS scrimmage - parents drive to game and team wear old uniforms ( with official games team takes bus) well what guess it turns out that the other school was calling an official game counting for season record- her HS coach and AD really messed it up by sign off . AD like i'm to busy to look at paperwork.

Told, if she plays this weekend penalties will be more severe then 6 game suspension min for season. The problem is an additional school was involved in organized HS scrimmage it walked - it had plays that will be playing this weekend- " Don'trust the coach or AD" when it comes to non official HS scrimmage
 
twoclubpapa said:
Read the SDS Green Book for the rules about outside competition, specifically Article 60. (Rule 600 et seq)
The rules banning outside competition apply to the "same sport." In the case of soccer, both indoor soccer and futsal are specifically identified as not being the "same sport" as soccer.
Click to expand...
I have never looked before but our section has a "blue book" but this got me searching.
Section 60: Outside Competition (Page 117)
Capture.PNG
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top