Script Flip: Presidio Rejects Surf

Round said:
Surf hasn't been about the kids as long as I've been around. There is nothing that they offer to b and C teams that many other clubs around them can and do. Surf tried to kill competition with ecnl and scdsl, didn't work.

They should live with it. How many chances do you give an organization to prove they aren't what they are?
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Yes, I was being facetious about it "being about the kids". It's not just Surf, although they may be more egregious than others. For the "brand" clubs, and some of the other larger clubs, its never been about the kids. Unfortunately, Presidio's decision, which appears to be based on ego and spite, sadly perpetuates the problem on a league wide level.

Having competitive Surf teams (although not dominant on the boys side despite claims of such) in Presidio/SDDA would benefit the league and the other member clubs.
 
watfly said:
Yes, I was being facetious about it "being about the kids". It's not just Surf, although they may be more egregious than others. For the "brand" clubs, and some of the other larger clubs, its never been about the kids. Unfortunately, Presidio's decision, which appears to be based on ego and spite, sadly perpetuates the problem on a league wide level. And -- the clubs who have been upgrading their player development methods over the years might fear that they will just become feeders to Surf's system.

Having competitive Surf teams (although not dominant on the boys side despite claims of such) in Presidio/SDDA would benefit the league and the other member clubs.
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Even if Surf is permitted back into Presidio, their best girls team will be playing in ECNL, and their best boys team in DA. I have seen nothing to indicate that they are backing out of SCDSL with their next rank teams. I don't think Surf's C, D and E teams (how far do they go anyway?) would offer any special competitive strength to Presidio.

This is the course they could have taken four years ago (splitting teams into whatever league looks appropriate for each team), except that then they would have had to tell different groups of parents different stories about Presidio's worth.
 
espola said:
Even if Surf is permitted back into Presidio, their best girls team will be playing in ECNL, and their best boys team in DA. I have seen nothing to indicate that they are backing out of SCDSL with their next rank teams. I don't think Surf's C, D and E teams (how far do they go anyway?) would offer any special competitive strength to Presidio.

This is the course they could have taken four years ago (splitting teams into whatever league looks appropriate for each team), except that then they would have had to tell different groups of parents different stories about Presidio's worth.
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Tsk tsk tsk.
1. They go as far down as they can. 80 kids show up "this is the most talented group we have ever seen so we are adding a fourth team"
60 kids show up "we are making this as elite as we can this year"
It's masterful and enjoyable to watch !
2. It's not about Presidio. It's about selling the crack pipe. If little Chloe is playing at Presidio and her BFF Riley is at SCSDL you can't sell mom not he fact that Chloe "just needs to grow" and "could move up"
It's optics. Selling the dream. Getting revenue teams fully loaded
 
Striker17 said:
Tsk tsk tsk.
1. They go as far down as they can. 80 kids show up "this is the most talented group we have ever seen so we are adding a fourth team"
60 kids show up "we are making this as elite as we can this year"
It's masterful and enjoyable to watch !
2. It's not about Presidio. It's about selling the crack pipe. If little Chloe is playing at Presidio and her BFF Riley is at SCSDL you can't sell mom not he fact that Chloe "just needs to grow" and "could move up"
It's optics. Selling the dream. Getting revenue teams fully loaded
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This, though they aren't the only club singing this tune.
 
There are also some parents of second/third teams that really don't want to drive to Orange County and beyond for SCDSL games for their ulittles when there's plenty of competition south of San Onofre that will suffice. They should just stay in SCDSL and abolish spring league participation.
 
Presidio short-sighted in this vote, in my opinion. Surf moved leagues to give it's top teams better competition. (I thought Presidio told them years ago they couldn't split leagues...is that correct?) With the progression of ECNL and DA the top kids are in set leagues and it makes sense for Surf to keep other teams more local....as well as for Presidio to add a strong club with resources back to the mix.

I think everyone demonizes Surf parents as kool aid drinkers but i don't know any who have kids playing on a c or d level team who believe that their kid is destined for greatness. They know this is a fun activity for their kid and WANT to play more local with no dreams of grandeur. Surf coaches of c and d kids don't generally "promise anything more than development and having fun." That quote via a text message from a surf parent on a C team. And for a lot of north county parents (and orange county and pockets of LA), the outrageous fee is just pocket change. They can drop a few K on rec soccer without being ignorant or foolish...not my money so why do i care?
 
If you want to play with the kids from the neighborhood don't go pissing off all the neighbors. It was short sighted of Surf to leave Pressido on bad terms. Now their lower level teams have to travel to play league games. They should have sucked it up for league play, all of 10 games, and went to OC or LA for tournaments if they really wanted higher competition.
 
full90 said:
Presidio short-sighted in this vote, in my opinion. Surf moved leagues to give it's top teams better competition. (I thought Presidio told them years ago they couldn't split leagues...is that correct?) With the progression of ECNL and DA the top kids are in set leagues and it makes sense for Surf to keep other teams more local....as well as for Presidio to add a strong club with resources back to the mix.

I think everyone demonizes Surf parents as kool aid drinkers but i don't know any who have kids playing on a c or d level team who believe that their kid is destined for greatness. They know this is a fun activity for their kid and WANT to play more local with no dreams of grandeur. Surf coaches of c and d kids don't generally "promise anything more than development and having fun." That quote via a text message from a surf parent on a C team. And for a lot of north county parents (and orange county and pockets of LA), the outrageous fee is just pocket change. They can drop a few K on rec soccer without being ignorant or foolish...not my money so why do i care?
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It was CSL told Surf they couldn't split leagues unless their best teams remained in CSL. Presidio clubs didn't care. In fact, when the DA teams appeared out of the blue in 2007 (or 2008?), both Surf and Nomads wanted to withdraw their Presidio teams after the scheduling deadline. Presidio charged both clubs the established late-drop fines. Surf just paid up, but Nomads appealed to the membership at the next monthly meeting and lost, facing questions like"If Surf pays up, why won't you?"
 
full90 said:
Presidio short-sighted in this vote, in my opinion. Surf moved leagues to give it's top teams better competition. (I thought Presidio told them years ago they couldn't split leagues...is that correct?) With the progression of ECNL and DA the top kids are in set leagues and it makes sense for Surf to keep other teams more local....as well as for Presidio to add a strong club with resources back to the mix.

I think everyone demonizes Surf parents as kool aid drinkers but i don't know any who have kids playing on a c or d level team who believe that their kid is destined for greatness. They know this is a fun activity for their kid and WANT to play more local with no dreams of grandeur. Surf coaches of c and d kids don't generally "promise anything more than development and having fun." That quote via a text message from a surf parent on a C team. And for a lot of north county parents (and orange county and pockets of LA), the outrageous fee is just pocket change. They can drop a few K on rec soccer without being ignorant or foolish...not my money so why do i care?
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This is wrong. Surf's top teams were already playing SCDCL/ECNL/DA. The current administration decided to pull all their teams when Presidio changed the rules on poaching players and coaches to Surf's detriment. They claimed it was for the players and coaches sighting that coaches with teams in Presidio and SCDCL would not be able to coordinate schedules between the 2 leagues and thus would miss a lot more games. The whole situation was sad because they announced the decision only after teams were formed and parents paid. I know many families that got stuck driving their 7 year olds 2+ hours for games because at that age there were less teams in SCDCL.
 
I would be really interested in knowing what is meant by "Nicholas presented a compelling case for reinstating Surf Soccer Club." Anyone have insight into what was so compelling? Not only a new board member but also another attorney. Where was Thunderbolt?
 
Fact said:
I would be really interested in knowing what is meant by "Nicholas presented a compelling case for reinstating Surf Soccer Club." Anyone have insight into what was so compelling? Not only a new board member but also another attorney. Where was Thunderbolt?
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I think he dumb icon should go away and a "high five" icon should take its place
 
Fact said:
I would be really interested in knowing what is meant by "Nicholas presented a compelling case for reinstating Surf Soccer Club." Anyone have insight into what was so compelling? Not only a new board member but also another attorney. Where was Thunderbolt?
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That news source rarely has a critical word to say about anything with "Surf" in it.
 
Seems like a good business decision by Presidio Clubs. It doesn't require spite to see that the ECNL group has been aggressively taking market share away from non-ECNL clubs. Why help them by reducing travel requirements for lower Surf teams? Look at all the affiliate clubs. It wasn't enough that ECNL is a closed league. EGSL, particularly its closed spring league, was clearly at attempt to provide advantage to ECNL clubs and their affiliates at the expense of the non-ECNL clubs. Those who can make the Surf A team will still go for Surf, but those who don't will have to weigh playing on another Surf team and spending a lot of time driving to games vs playing for a Presidio team that plays in San Diego County. I think other clubs would be foolish to help any of the ECNL clubs.

Personally, I'm not buying any "what about the children" baloney. These are businesses with people's livelihoods at stake. Why help your biggest competitor?
 
jsmaxwell said:
Personally, I'm not buying any "what about the children" baloney.
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You've made that painfully obvious.

Surf "made its bed and now has to lie in it", certainly I have no sympathy for them...they simply could have made a quiet exit instead of insulting the league on the way out. I can appreciate Presidio's member clubs being reluctant to let Surf back in but that doesn't make the decision right. How petty is it for "not for profits" to try to screw each other out of market share in the name of "developing youth soccer players".

I'm not so naive that I don't understand that Club soccer is big business, but I'm also not so jaded to think that it shouldn't be about the kids. If so many depend on Club soccer as a livelihood then man up and register your club as a for profit business and stop abusing the benefits of a 501(c)(3).

Fortunately, we all have the power to decide whether we want our child at a club that's about the kids or a club that's about the DOC's livelihood. There are clubs of both types out there but unfortunately the former are getting fewer.
 
watfly said:
You've made that painfully obvious.

Surf "made its bed and now has to lie in it", certainly I have no sympathy for them...they simply could have made a quiet exit instead of insulting the league on the way out. I can appreciate Presidio's member clubs being reluctant to let Surf back in but that doesn't make the decision right. How petty is it for "not for profits" to try to screw each other out of market share in the name of "developing youth soccer players".

I'm not so naive that I don't understand that Club soccer is big business, but I'm also not so jaded to think that it shouldn't be about the kids. If so many depend on Club soccer as a livelihood then man up and register your club as a for profit business and stop abusing the benefits of a 501(c)(3).

Fortunately, we all have the power to decide whether we want our child at a club that's about the kids or a club that's about the DOC's livelihood. There are clubs of both types out there but unfortunately the former are getting fewer.
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The idealism is touching. It might the helpful to recognize that registering an entity for non-profit tax status in no way implies that it is a charity. It is just a tax minimization strategy.

Club soccer isn't a "big business". Its very much small business. I'd be surprised to learn that anyone in club soccer makes serious money. I'd be surprised if any of them are making as much as someone who owns a single successful restaurant, but what do I know?

Wanting to make a living does not make someone a meanie. The ECNL clubs have had a strategy to make their clubs successful, but it was often purposely at the expense of other clubs. Its perfectly reasonable for those other clubs to decline to help Surf to improve its offering. If you live in north county and have a kid on a Surf team that would have gone Presidio, then go to a club that plays in Presidio if you don't want to drive. If you want your kid to wear the Surf shirt regardless and refuse to consider the other clubs, why should they help you?
 
jsmaxwell said:
The idealism is touching. It might the helpful to recognize that registering an entity for non-profit tax status in no way implies that it is a charity. It is just a tax minimization strategy.

Club soccer isn't a "big business". Its very much small business. I'd be surprised to learn that anyone in club soccer makes serious money. I'd be surprised if any of them are making as much as someone who owns a single successful restaurant, but what do I know?

Wanting to make a living does not make someone a meanie. The ECNL clubs have had a strategy to make their clubs successful, but it was often purposely at the expense of other clubs. Its perfectly reasonable for those other clubs to decline to help Surf to improve its offering. If you live in north county and have a kid on a Surf team that would have gone Presidio, then go to a club that plays in Presidio if you don't want to drive. If you want your kid to wear the Surf shirt regardless and refuse to consider the other clubs, why should they help you?
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Let me clarify since you jumped to a number of conclusions. I never claimed that Clubs were charities, but thanks for letting me know what a 501(c)(3) is, since its been over 25 years since I passed the CPA exam. Cumulatively I believe Club soccer is big business, but I admit that "big" is in the eye of the beholder. However, there are many clubs with multi-million $ gross and many DOC's that make more than a restaurant owner that can't claim 501(c)(3) status because they are feeding children. Granted, I personally wouldn't choose either as my source of income. I say more power to the DOC's that can make a great living at it, I don't have a problem with it. Even more power to those DOC's that earn a living and truly put the kid's interests first. Just be honest about it and don't claim some altruistic motive when none actually exists. Idealism, probably...honesty and credibility, for sure.
 
I can't help but wonder who the DOC's are that make a good living and still put the interests of the kids first? Just curious who makes this list.
 
Kicknit22 said:
I can't help but wonder who the DOC's are that make a good living and still put the interests of the kids first? Just curious who makes this list.
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I would put Jean Willrich and Christine Drummond of Poway Vaqueros in that group, assuming that we agree on the "good living" factor.
 
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