Script Flip: Presidio Rejects Surf

[Eusebio]

Pretty much a textbook example of why you don't burn bridges with people in your local community.

While some of the better Surf B teams could help raise the competition level, the Surf C, D, E teams would add nothing to Presidio. The majority of the Surf lower teams are on the level of AAB, AAC bronze teams, which Presidio already has plenty of. So why force local teams to pay parking fees to subsidize the Polo fields if the competition is the same or worse? Especially when the club uses its DA/ECNL teams as a lure to poach players and coaches away from local teams to further expand their lower teams, I can see why those Presidio members would be reluctant.

But there's also definitely a certain element of jealousy from the Presidio members because Surf has consistently been an organized club that's made some shred business moves that's allowed them to grow and expand in all age groups over the years. Surf is able to successfully poach players because they have an attractive product and they've achieved some real results to hang their hat on, especially on the girls side.

But 4-5 years ago, hubris got to them and they started believing their own hype. They believed they actually developed elite players from the ground up and could say "FU" to Presidio and leave for greener pastures and greatness. But the Truth is Surf used their image and success of the top teams to recruit players that were developed from other Presidio local teams. This is why the boys teams at Surf have fallen off so much over the last 3-4 years. Playing in SCDSL in the younger ages has created a disconnect where a lot of central and south county 7-11 year-old players are just unable to play on Surf teams due to the constant travel north of 2-3 hour drives on the weekends. This has forced Surf to rely on developing their own players for the most part, which has been a failure on the boys side for the last 3-4 years. Their pool of players is mostly limited to north county del mar, carmel valley players.

The girls side hasn't taken a hit because IMO, the stronger girls players tend to reside in the north county area and with Surf being the only ECNL club in the county, they still had a strong enough gravitational pull to draw in top players. Whereas with the boys, the stronger players tend to reside in the central and south county, and there are several other DA clubs in the area. That said, this might be one of the reasons Surf wants to return to Presidio even for girls. Since ECNL is becoming a "B" team league and with multiple San Diego teams with Girls DA status, they're not going to have that automatic gravitational force anymore. They need to get back in Presidio so they can be more visible to local residents for recruiting purposes instead off in a distant league while Albion and Carlsbad harvest the local talent unopposed.

 

[MakeAPlay]

Pretty much a textbook example of why you don't burn bridges with people in your local community.

While some of the better Surf B teams could help raise the competition level, the Surf C, D, E teams would add nothing to Presidio. The majority of the Surf lower teams are on the level of AAB, AAC bronze teams, which Presidio already has plenty of. So why force local teams to pay parking fees to subsidize the Polo fields if the competition is the same or worse? Especially when the club uses its DA/ECNL teams as a lure to poach players and coaches away from local teams to further expand their lower teams, I can see why those Presidio members would be reluctant.

But there's also definitely a certain element of jealousy from the Presidio members because Surf has consistently been an organized club that's made some shred business moves that's allowed them to grow and expand in all age groups over the years. Surf is able to successfully poach players because they have an attractive product and they've achieved some real results to hang their hat on, especially on the girls side.

But 4-5 years ago, hubris got to them and they started believing their own hype. They believed they actually developed elite players from the ground up and could say "FU" to Presidio and leave for greener pastures and greatness. But the Truth is Surf used their image and success of the top teams to recruit players that were developed from other Presidio local teams. This is why the boys teams at Surf have fallen off so much over the last 3-4 years. Playing in SCDSL in the younger ages has created a disconnect where a lot of central and south county 7-11 year-old players are just unable to play on Surf teams due to the constant travel north of 2-3 hour drives on the weekends. This has forced Surf to rely on developing their own players for the most part, which has been a failure on the boys side for the last 3-4 years. Their pool of players is mostly limited to north county del mar, carmel valley players.

The girls side hasn't taken a hit because IMO, the stronger girls players tend to reside in the north county area and with Surf being the only ECNL club in the county, they still had a strong enough gravitational pull to draw in top players. Whereas with the boys, the stronger players tend to reside in the central and south county, and there are several other DA clubs in the area. That said, this might be one of the reasons Surf wants to return to Presidio even for girls. Since ECNL is becoming a "B" team league and with multiple San Diego teams with Girls DA status, they're not going to have that automatic gravitational force anymore. They need to get back in Presidio so they can be more visible to local residents for recruiting purposes instead off in a distant league while Albion and Carlsbad harvest the local talent unopposed.

You had me until that last part. Albion and Carlsbad might think that they are going to get to harvest the local talent but I haven't seen it happen yet. One of my best friends has a daughter that plays for Albion on a team that will be GDA. She loves her new kit and her new team but she would play for the top Surf team in the age group if she could right now. Their plan is to try to move her over there when the recruiting ages start for them. They have seen first hand what Surf has done for many players.

GDA is a reality but brand still maters. Surf has the brand and in almost every age group they get first crack at the top players. I'm sure that you understand why. Good luck to you and yours.

 

[Kicknit22]

Hard to disagree with you MAP. Surf brand is what it is, and it will take a long time for it to fade, if it ever does. However, GDA does change the game a bit for them. Just from a geographical standpoint alone, both Albion and Carlsbad are gaining by leaps and bounds. They say that the team is the vehicle to success. It's up to the player to find the right vehicle. Surf has had the best lot in SoCal for as long as I know. But now Albion and C-Bad will have a lot to offer.

 

[MakeAPlay]

Hard to disagree with you MAP. Surf brand is what it is, and it will take a long time for it to fade, if it ever does. However, GDA does change the game a bit for them. Just from a geographical standpoint alone, both Albion and Carlsbad are gaining by leaps and bounds. They say that the team is the vehicle to success. It's up to the player to find the right vehicle. Surf has had the best lot in SoCal for as long as I know. But now Albion and C-Bad will have a lot to offer.

Don't get me wrong. I like Duggan. He coached the top Carlsbad team in my daughters age group for a long time and he is an excellent coach. I also think Noah Kooiman at Albion has few rivals to his ability to build a team and develop players. All that I am saying is that Surf has a leg up nationally and players commute to play there and I don't see that changing. Those clubs may gain players locally but it doesn't mean that they won't lose them when they get invited to join down the road. Great players like to play with other great players for the most part. Surf has a U18 player that commutes from Santa Barbara and one that commutes from Ventura County! These players are already committed to North Carolina and $C so there is a reason that they are willing to drive that far. I hope that the other two programs are successful especially Albion. By the way my friends daughter was recruited from another San Diego county club team so it isn't just Surf that does it. I have no problem with it because people should do what they feel is best for their child.

Good luck to you and your player.

 

[Eusebio]

You had me until that last part. Albion and Carlsbad might think that they are going to get to harvest the local talent but I haven't seen it happen yet. One of my best friends has a daughter that plays for Albion on a team that will be GDA. She loves her new kit and her new team but she would play for the top Surf team in the age group if she could right now. Their plan is to try to move her over there when the recruiting ages start for them. They have seen first hand what Surf has done for many players.

GDA is a reality but brand still maters. Surf has the brand and in almost every age group they get first crack at the top players. I'm sure that you understand why. Good luck to you and yours.

If you're taking a current snapshot, then yes probably most top level girls player would still want to gravitate to Surf right now. My point was though, the landscape is changing. Albion and Carlsbad can now compete on a near 1:1 basis in terms of giving top players in the area the opportunity to play at the highest levels and get exposure. I think you're under-estimating how much Surf was able to benefit from having an ECNL monopoly for so long. Yes Surf will still enjoy some residual effects for a couple more years, but you can't assume their brand alone can keep attracting players without making some other adjustments. As I said Surf makes shrewd business decisions and are forward thinking, so I think part of their motivation of returning to Presidio was to avoid ceding too much of the potential talent pool to Albion/Carlsbad now that both have a GDA recruiting magnet.

Besides branding can change. And it's already happened to Surf. About 5-6 years ago when they had only two teams in each age group, I remember when my son wore his Surf jersey to LA Galaxy games, he would get looks and would hear whispers of, "Hey, that kid plays for Surf!" and people would stop us to ask about the club. Also when you looked at a tournament bracket and saw a Surf team, you knew they were almost always a contender or the favorites.

Flash forward 5 years, now when someone sees a Surf jersey, they have to ask is it Surf Murrieta, Surf San Clemente, Surf Anaheim, Inland Empire Surf, PSPL Surf, or San Gabriel Valley Surf just in the local area. Nevermind the the out of area ones of Surf Hawaii, Surf Seattle, Surf New York, San Jose Surf, and Utah Surf. Combine this with the expansion of "C", "D" teams to the San Diego home branch, the rapid expansion meant they went from just two teams in a single age group to potentially 25-30 Surf teams in a single age group. With maybe one actually qualifying as Elite and the rest ranging anywhere between Silver Elite and Bronze Rec. Over the last couple of years, I've seen some truly dreadful teams wear the Surf jerseys that never would have happened before and I've seen affiliates at times play nothing close to what was being taught in San Diego.

As a result, the Surf brand has been diluted and has lost some luster. Surf used to have this mystique where you had to be among the best in the area to play on a Surf team. If you saw a kid wearing a Surf jersey, it was safe to assume they were probably a pretty good soccer player. But due to brand dilution this simply is no longer the case. Btw, the same thing is starting to happen with Surf Cup where it's losing some of its "Best of the Best" luster due to expansion and lowering the bar.

I'm pretty sure Surf is fully aware of the brand dilution and it was a calculated decision to expand in order to increase revenue and expand their operations. I believe they're content as long as they maintain the prestige and performance of their elite teams, which is still a strong recruitment tool for players, coaches, and new affiliates. They're probably okay that their brand has become a bit of a commodity as long as they can keep expanding the Surf empire.

Point is though, it's foolish to assume Surf's brand alone will just keep attracting elite players over the next 4 years and beyond. Their brand has already morphed and Surf doesn't operate in a vacuum. Albion/Carlsbad have been pushing hard to close the gap and Albion in particular seems to be following in Surf's footsteps in commoditizing their brand in order to expand. I do agree though Surf starts the next 2-3 years with home court advantage.

 

[outside!]

The change in the perception of a Surf jersey started to happen around the time they switched from having "Surf" in large letters on the front of the jersey to "SoccerLoco". The "Surf" jersey era had some good looking kits. As soon as they switched to "SoccerLoco" kits, from a distance I would always confuse Surf teams with Oceanside Breakers.

 

[MakeAPlay]

All good points. We will definitely see what works over the coming years. The death of Surf has been desired/forecast for a long time and throughout every new challenge to their hegemony they have persisted. I can tell you that playing for a top Surf team prepares you for college. There is a reason that top players flock there from as far away as Las Vegas. Good luck to your players going forward.

 

[sandshark]

The truth is all B teams and the huge majority of the A teams from all the SD clubs belong in Presidio anyway. But the reason the coaches and clubs push the out of town playing is so they can collect thousands of dollars more per year in out of town expenses "per diem" they pocket these expenses and usually tax free fee's from their teams, it works like a bonus program at the end of each month!
Everything in youth soccer always ends up being about how to get into the parents wallet. There is 100% zero reason for the majority of the clubs in SD county to drive to LA, OC or Norco every weekend to play teams that are the same caliber or below the teams in SD. It is all a huge scam! Unless your team is constantly finishing in the top 3 in Coast premier, CRL, SCDL , ECNL and all the "show cases" or tournaments you are wasting your dam time and being scammed!

These soccer clubs and coaches are becoming relentless on their greed to rob families of time and money!

Lets get real here.. name 4 SD clubs that have more than 1-2 top A team National caliber teams on the girls side that are so up and above that they need to travel out of SD County to find real competition?
I am not saying you should not seek out tournaments to play up against some top caliber level of play, but when your chasing the empty promises every weekend and finishing below the top 3 in the majority of tournaments topped off with your team ending the year league finish below the top 3 you need to take a step back and put things in perspective.
.

 

[outside!]

All good points sandshark. In addition, there is not real reason for the elite teams to travel out of Southern California more than once or twice a year.

 

[chargerfan]

The truth is all B teams and the huge majority of the A teams from all the SD clubs belong in Presidio anyway. But the reason the coaches and clubs push the out of town playing is so they can collect thousands of dollars more per year in out of town expenses "per diem" they pocket these expenses and usually tax free fee's from their teams, it works like a bonus program at the end of each month!
Everything in youth soccer always ends up being about how to get into the parents wallet. There is 100% zero reason for the majority of the clubs in SD county to drive to LA, OC or Norco every weekend to play teams that are the same caliber or below the teams in SD. It is all a huge scam! Unless your team is constantly finishing in the top 3 in Coast premier, CRL, SCDL , ECNL and all the "show cases" or tournaments you are wasting your dam time and being scammed!

These soccer clubs and coaches are becoming relentless on their greed to rob families of time and money!

Lets get real here.. name 4 SD clubs that have more than 1-2 top A team National caliber teams on the girls side that are so up and above that they need to travel out of SD County to find real competition?
I am not saying you should not seek out tournaments to play up against some top caliber level of play, but when your chasing the empty promises every weekend and finishing below the top 3 in the majority of tournaments topped off with your team ending the year league finish below the top 3 you need to take a step back and put things in perspective.
.

Sdda flight 1 for 2004 had sharks, notts, and rebels. If surf a and b, Carlsbad, and Arsenal sd had stayed, it would be a good league with little travel.

 

[sandshark]

Sdda flight 1 for 2004 had sharks, notts, and rebels. If surf a and b, Carlsbad, and Arsenal sd had stayed, it would be a good league with little travel.

It does not make the coaches money to stick with local leagues and miss out on the weekly per diem and it does not cater to the parents ego's to realize the majority of teams are all pretty equal.
I know several coaches that have no interest in making the drive and selling a line of BS to their parents but If the other clubs are selling the BS and the families are going for it they have to join in and keep up. Also the these leagues demand that the clubs bring X amount of teams so in return you have now forced clubs and coaches into selling a line of BS to several families! It is a viscous circle and our kids are paying the price with a sacrificing their childhood sitting in cars for 6 - 8 hours a weekend along with the parents doing the same with their time! The only winner in all of this is the people making money at the expense of our children.
We can win or lose 10 miles from our home or 110 miles its the same game, teams and experience for most.

 

[MakeAPlay]

All good points sandshark. In addition, there is not real reason for the elite teams to travel out of Southern California more than once or twice a year.

I don't know. My player's team ran into some pretty awesome out of state teams in New Jersey, Colorado, Chicago, Seattle, Portland (Nike Manchester Cup at Nike headquarters) and Norcal. There were maybe 3-7 teams locally that were competitive with them. It would have been pretty boring to play only those teams and not a true measure of strength nationally. Not to mention in my player's age group only once in 5 years was the national champion a team from California. The other valuable part of it was she got used to traveling with a team like in college and being away from mom and dad for up to a week. Those life lessons are still playing dividends. She knows how to manage her studies and rest even when on the road without me having to remind her. She is able to manage her social activities while maintaining an extremely high gpa and a full time soccer gig. Finally, I have to say both of think that the hours spent commuting to a seemingly endless number of games and tournaments were our bonding time that both of us miss today. Occasionally she still even asks for me to drive her home from a college game just so that we can talk. That is priceless in my book.

Think what you want about travel but for elite players it is a reality and a necessity. And it's pretty awesome for us parents too.

 

[chargerfan]

I don't know. My player's team ran into some pretty awesome out of state teams in New Jersey, Colorado, Chicago, Seattle, Portland (Nike Manchester Cup at Nike headquarters) and Norcal. There were maybe 3-7 teams locally that were competitive with them. It would have been pretty boring to play only those teams and not a true measure of strength nationally. Not to mention in my player's age group only once in 5 years was the national champion a team from California. The other valuable part of it was she got used to traveling with a team like in college and being away from mom and dad for up to a week. Those life lessons are still playing dividends. She knows how to manage her studies and rest even when on the road without me having to remind her. She is able to manage her social activities while maintaining an extremely high gpa and a full time soccer gig. Finally, I have to say both of think that the hours spent commuting to a seemingly endless number of games and tournaments were our bonding time that both of us miss today. Occasionally she still even asks for me to drive her home from a college game just so that we can talk. That is priceless in my book.

Think what you want about travel but for elite players it is a reality and a necessity. And it's pretty awesome for us parents too.

This is definitely a necessity for top high school talent, but not for the majority of girls. And definitely not for 7-13 year olds. It also makes it hard for working parents and low-income parents in San Diego to have their kids playing on a decent team.

 

[Multi Sport]

How high was your nose in the air when you typed that? Were you able to see the keyboard at all?

Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's wrong. It's probably closer to the truth then you'd like to admit.

On the girls side Surf had very clubs to compete with. I would say RSF Attack but was but they even left to go to SCDSL.

To me, it seems as though the folks who run the Presidio league are being short sighted.

 

[sandshark]

I don't know. My player's team ran into some pretty awesome out of state teams in New Jersey, Colorado, Chicago, Seattle, Portland (Nike Manchester Cup at Nike headquarters) and Norcal. There were maybe 3-7 teams locally that were competitive with them. It would have been pretty boring to play only those teams and not a true measure of strength nationally. Not to mention in my player's age group only once in 5 years was the national champion a team from California. The other valuable part of it was she got used to traveling with a team like in college and being away from mom and dad for up to a week. Those life lessons are still playing dividends. She knows how to manage her studies and rest even when on the road without me having to remind her. She is able to manage her social activities while maintaining an extremely high gpa and a full time soccer gig. Finally, I have to say both of think that the hours spent commuting to a seemingly endless number of games and tournaments were our bonding time that both of us miss today. Occasionally she still even asks for me to drive her home from a college game just so that we can talk. That is priceless in my book.

Think what you want about travel but for elite players it is a reality and a necessity. And it's pretty awesome for us parents too.

"Us parents" ha ha your are a perfect example!

I never argue anyone's opinion on what they consider to be quality time with their children or how they want their children to look back on their childhood memories as they get older.

We have done exactly what you wrote out above, my kids have also played and traveled all over the USA and yes they enjoyed the journey. But we as a family do not think the hours away, time and money spent is worth it. We see things very clearly and do not hide anything when really talking about this sport, clubs and coaches. We are very realistic in our perception of youth soccer at the highest level.
Yes we also have experience on the National level, my girl played in the National league and "college showcases" and more..and there again it provided maybe 3-4 super teams worth the time and travel! Of course we enjoyed listening to her fun times she had as she did travel around the USA with her team, but after a couple trips of doing this she was pretty seasoned on how to handle herself. We also have had some wonderful one on one times together in our car to and from training sessions and out of town games but in my opinion we also can find the same if not better time spent @ the beach, lake, back yard BBQ, night out at the movies, friends and family vacations and the list goes on and on!
We do not need a sport dictating our every weekend and 4 days per week to build bonds and family memories. I myself do not associate any part of my great relationship with my kids or wife to youth soccer! We do whoever think it provided some very important lessons on hard work and rewards but it also provided lessons on how fake and shitty people can truly be.

You sound like you really enjoyed your time spent in youth soccer and I think that is awesome, for some it is the perfect fit for their family! We did also enjoy parts of it and we might enjoy youth soccer again but NEVER at the elite level of time and money spent chasing the line of BS the coaches and clubs spew out! just my .2

 

[MakeAPlay]

"Us parents" ha ha your are a perfect example!

I never argue anyone's opinion on what they consider to be quality time with their children or how they want their children to look back on their childhood memories as they get older.

We have done exactly what you wrote out above, my kids have also played and traveled all over the USA and yes they enjoyed the journey. But we as a family do not think the hours away, time and money spent is worth it. We see things very clearly and do not hide anything when really talking about this sport, clubs and coaches. We are very realistic in our perception of youth soccer at the highest level.
Yes we also have experience on the National level, my girl played in the National league and "college showcases" and more..and there again it provided maybe 3-4 super teams worth the time and travel! Of course we enjoyed listening to her fun times she had as she did travel around the USA with her team, but after a couple trips of doing this she was pretty seasoned on how to handle herself. We also have had some wonderful one on one times together in our car to and from training sessions and out of town games but in my opinion we also can find the same if not better time spent @ the beach, lake, back yard BBQ, night out at the movies, friends and family vacations and the list goes on and on!
We do not need a sport dictating our every weekend and 4 days per week to build bonds and family memories. I myself do not associate any part of my great relationship with my kids or wife to youth soccer! We do whoever think it provided some very important lessons on hard work and rewards but it also provided lessons on how fake and shitty people can truly be.

You sound like you really enjoyed your time spent in youth soccer and I think that is awesome, for some it is the perfect fit for their family! We did also enjoy parts of it and we might enjoy youth soccer again but NEVER at the elite level of time and money spent chasing the line of BS the coaches and clubs spew out! just my .2

I'm sorry that you did not seem to see the value in it. For my player her athletic scholarship alone more than paid for what we spent over the years. We spend less now on a top 25 academic university than all but her last year of soccer (which was free) and her first two years (which had no travel). We also took plenty of non soccer related vacations to many places in the world and she got to travel to even more places on US Soccer's dime. My player played in the ECNL and it sounds like yours did not and to be quite honest with you outside of the Southwest conference it was rare that they got matched up against a cupcake. You state that your player maybe played against 3-4 teams that were worth the time per year. My player's team would typically play 12-18 out of state/area teams a year and maybe 1-3 weren't good games. It sounds like we just had different experiences.

The time spent was valuable to my player and that was valuable to me. She is a starter on a top college team and enjoying college and all that it has to offer. Travel soccer has given her a ton and to be quite honest if she had played for the closest club to her she wouldn't even be close to the player that she is now (one of her best friends from her high school team played local for a low level club team that played locally in CSL and goes to the same college with no built in peer group and $32k a year out of her parents pocket). She also had several friends with similar gpa's (over 4.0) that didn't even get into any of her final 3 schools that she had scholarship offers for. Travel is a sacrifice but there is a payoff for any girls that are willing to work for it. Time on the road and away from home is part of the sacrifice. I like the life lesson.

 

[clueless parent]

" Travel is a sacrifice but there is a payoff for any girls that are willing to work for it."

MAP, I am blown away by your daughter's ECNL travel destinations and the concomitant expenses. I can understand why she developed traveling skills without a parent. For many In SoCal, a single trip for an athlete traveling alone would be financially impossible. Your daughter was lucky to have parents that understood the big picture and financed it! Good job!

 

[MakeAPlay]

" Travel is a sacrifice but there is a payoff for any girls that are willing to work for it."

MAP, I am blown away by your daughter's ECNL travel destinations and the concomitant expenses. I can understand why she developed traveling skills without a parent. For many In SoCal, a single trip for an athlete traveling alone would be financially impossible. Your daughter was lucky to have parents that understood the big picture and financed it! Good job!

The travelling wasn't cheap but it wasn't over the top. She averaged about two plane trips a year from U14-U17. No plane trips for U18. At least 2 trips to Vegas and 3 to Phoenix per year. Here is the deal. The trips including room and our cut of the coaches costs were between $800-$900 per trip. We booked plane tickets well in advance and the girls were 4 to a room. We only traveled with them to Colorado (her 2nd year), Portland (for the Nike tournament and we have family in Portland) and the Vegas and Phoenix trips. My most expensive two seasons were U16 and U17 were they went to New Jersey and Seattle in the same season and I spent approximately $4800. That is a lot but I spend less now on her tuition thanks to the money I spent. And to be clear for her entire club career from U10-U18 I spent a little more than $30k which is less than one year's tuition, fees, books, room and board at her college.

Pay for play sucks. We are blessed that we were able to manage it. I always would ask my player before every season was she sure she wanted to play because it was a one year commitment and if I was going to write a check she was in for the full year. Weirdly that is probably one of the best things for her athletic career that I ever did.

 

[sandshark]

First of all don't be sorry ha ha and secondly you sound very proud and very satisfied with your family's experience and that is great! Like I said "for some it is a perfect fit" we hope our DD does what makes her happy in life, playing soccer in college or not is fine by us.
We have never been the family that had tunnel vision that college is the all mighty answer to success and life happiness. And lets be honest..ECNL is like the rest of them some really solid teams and some WTH was that teams.

We actually have two professional athletes in our family and I promise I know more about what it takes to make a professional athlete than 99% of every half wit, hack soccer coach and most of the parents. We did it with a calm low pressure approach and lots of very good memories.

We as parents managed our children's childhood to always make sure they had a social life and a well rounded open outlook on sports and friends.

Burn out is a major factor and chasing your dreams using your child to fulfill them never works in the end.
We really enjoyed watching my kids do what they truly loved in sports but at the same time our approach has always been moderation and that is something the US soccer world knows NOTHING about! And it seems they have a huge following of parents that are so caught up in the hype that they are blowing through the years, months, weeks and days chasing the hype! I hate to think of how many will look back and wonder why no body pulled them aside and told them the to keep things in perspective! just my .2

 

[Nut Meg]

I would put Jean Willrich and Christine Drummond of Poway Vaqueros in that group, assuming that we agree on the "good living" factor.

Way to jinx the Vaqueros...