Offside - (You call it) - Flash Lag effect

Discussion in 'C'mon Ref!' started by Definitelynotanotherref, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. Definitelynotanotherref

    Definitelynotanotherref SILVER ELITE

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    This is an answers video, but it is good enough for purposes of discussion. You can find the full test as well as the "difficult" test here

    This is a good intro to the flash lag effect. Flash lag is when "A moving object is perceived as spatially leading its real position at an instant defined by a time marker".
    I was shocked the first time I saw this video. I really had to train my brain to compensate for the flash lag effect.
    ______________

    In a perfect world, the "answers video" is mandatory viewing for all parents, coaches, and players. Even in an imperfect world, this should be mandatory viewing for all referees getting their Grade 8 intro to refereeing course. and then re-watched again at some point.

    I think this video is eye-opening to how difficult offside can be. And if you aren't watching the line, on the line; and are instead looking at the ball... forget about it.
     
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  2. Definitelynotanotherref

    Definitelynotanotherref SILVER ELITE

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    Can you imagine the shit the AR would get in this video if he didn't have the vindication of instant replay? My worst abuse moments are not as a center referee, but as an AR. There is just no convincing ANYONE that you are right when the play happens similar to this. It shouldn't have to take that much courage to make the right call.
     
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  3. Surfref

    Surfref PREMIER

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    I even get yelled at when the attacker is clearly onside, but everyone is watching the player kicking the ball. By the time they look at the attacker receiving the ball it looks like they were offside. Then I or my AR gets yelled at.

    I still work with referees a couple times a month that do not know or understand Law 11 and the interpretation. I had an older Referee a couple weeks ago that kept raising the flag as soon as the ball passed the last defender even when the player in an offside position was on the other side of the field and nowhere near the ball. He also refused to lower the flag on the two plays when a defender played the ball and I yelled “played by defender” and gave him the flag down signal, which put the player in an offside position now not in violation of Law 11. Of course I got yelled at despite his 6 screw up. Of course the coach is going to use the ARs screw up to yell at me.
     
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  4. coachrefparent

    coachrefparent GOLD

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    I don't know about all that flash bang stuff, but the video is deceptive as a means to evaluate the call.

    Clip #1 starts quickly, without any ability to gauge which team is which, where they are positioned, and how they are moving. All unrealistic to a live situation. Also, all plays are staged, with defensive players acting in an unusual fashion if not exaggerated.

    Further, the video is zoomed at a level that is not consistent with the human eyes. It is a narrow view, while a person has very broad peripheral vision. (Although new referees often have such tunnel vision.)

    Other than clip #1, once you are acclimated to who the jersey colors belong to, and given the poor cinematography, it's not hard to make the calls.

    But I agree that being an AR is much more difficult than being an R.
     
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  5. RedCard

    RedCard SILVER ELITE

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    Same here @Surfref. This past weekend I was doing 4 games at the Copa Americana in Huntington Beach. I was the A/R on the coaches side and on the 1st goal against his team the offensive player was even with the 2nd to last defender when the ball was played and he out ran everyone and scored. Coach went crazy saying it was offside. I explained to him that he was even with the defensive line and when the ball was kicked he just out ran everyone which he replied it was because he was offside. Then he said "He's tried of referees like me screwing up the game". Well, that made the rest of the game pleasant. The funny thing was none of the parents on the other side complained about the goal so it looked like to me they actually understand Law 11 better than the coach. So on the next "close" offside play (which it wasn't) my smart ass asked the coach if that was offside. He wasn't happy with that question. I know it wasn't right of me but I spent 6 years in the Marines so being a smart ass is and will always be apart of me...lol.
    But like you said, everyone is watching the player with the ball and not the defenders further away so when the ball is played and everyone follows it, it looks like whoever receives the ball is in the offside position, but an A/R who does the job properly is keeping his/her focus on the 2nd to last defender.
     
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  6. Definitelynotanotherref

    Definitelynotanotherref SILVER ELITE

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    I don't have too much of a problem with the "obvious" ones that people complain about. Because I am sure in myself and my call. And usually your fellow referees and the few astute parents/coaches can tell as well. So those complaints, while annoying, I can shrug off pretty easily.

    It is the extremely close calls that you yourself only didn't call because you weren't 100% sure he WAS offside... so you keep your flag down. Personally, you know it was really close, and the parents that normally think the "obvious onsides" are offside. Well now its not obvious onside, so they believe its the most obvious offside call that their blind grandpa could call. Which makes you in turn, apparently, worse than Hitler.
     
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  7. electrichead72

    electrichead72 SILVER

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    Being an AR is the tougher job, as you usually have an "expert" parent there who is willing to argue every call with you and wants to know why each call was made. You hear the most venom on that sideline.

    My gripe is normally when an AR isn't quite sure, but the defenders pop their arms up and the loudest coach or parents "help" them to decide if it was actually the correct call, especially when they are caught out of position and don't move with the defender or the ball. Sometimes it's being lazy, sometimes you're just not fast enough to keep up.

    I understand all of that, and if you're unsure about the call, let it go and talk to the center ref. If it results in a goal, talk to the CR about your concerns and go from there. The CR can call back the goal. It won't be easy, but they can do it.
     

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