How’s the 2023-24 season going?

[LouSag]

Let's just say there are 17 ECNL teams in SW (not counting GA teams). Your math says there would be 34 players per age group. Let's just look at four age groups, that's 34X4=136 in SW division. But they only drafted 56 players from College, all over the country and players from outside the country. Most of those that get drafted are getting paid 35K and will be replaced the next year by the next class.

An example of how hard it is to make it as a female soccer player. This is a Mac Herman finalist.

Along with Turnbow, Taylor Kornieck had to leave Wave FC because she wasn't getting play time.

San Diego Wave FC Midfielder Kelsey Turnbow Announces Retirement - San Diego Wave Fútbol Club

San Diego Wave FC midfielder Kelsey Turnbow today announced her […]

sandiegowavefc.com

Kelsey Turnbow - 2021 - Women's Soccer - Santa Clara University

Kelsey Turnbow (10) Forward - AS A RS SENIOR IN 2021: First Team All-American ... Third Team Academic All-American … Honda Award Finalist … One

santaclarabroncos.com

About 6 weeks ago, my 17 yr old daughter got a call to go train with the Wave. Her response , “Thank you, but I have no interest in playing professional soccer…please give the opportunity to someone else.”
Raised this one right…off to college to get that degree. At least Ms. Turnbow above had the foresight to finish college. Smart lady.

 

[Carlsbad7]

Let's just say there are 17 ECNL teams in SW (not counting GA teams). Your math says there would be 34 players per age group. Let's just look at four age groups, that's 34X4=136 in SW division. But they only drafted 56 players from College, all over the country and players from outside the country. Most of those that get drafted are getting paid 35K and will be replaced the next year by the next class.

An example of how hard it is to make it as a female soccer player. This is a Mac Herman finalist.

Along with Turnbow, Taylor Kornieck had to leave Wave FC because she wasn't getting play time.

San Diego Wave FC Midfielder Kelsey Turnbow Announces Retirement - San Diego Wave Fútbol Club

San Diego Wave FC midfielder Kelsey Turnbow today announced her […]

sandiegowavefc.com

Kelsey Turnbow - 2021 - Women's Soccer - Santa Clara University

Kelsey Turnbow (10) Forward - AS A RS SENIOR IN 2021: First Team All-American ... Third Team Academic All-American … Honda Award Finalist … One

santaclarabroncos.com

I don't disagree with your numbers.

But why go though all the effort to be on a top team if your goal isn't to play professionally?

Youth only goes on for so long. If you were a top level athlete and in your prime it would be hard to turn your back on something you love. A big money job doesn't gloss over feelings of what could have been.

 

[LouSag]

A 2nd Surf team at each age group makes a lot of sense.

Not gonna happen. Surf bailed for the DA, and when the DA imploded, they came running back to ECNL. If they had never left ECNL, they would clearly have 2 ECNL teams in each age group—like Scott Gallagher, Real Colorado, and Concorde. I‘m thinking ECNL leadership has a long memory.

 

[LouSag]

Why not?

NWSL allows a min of 20 and max of 26 per roster and as of 2024 there's 14 clubs. This means on the low end there's 280 available positions and on the high end there's 346.

Socal (and CA) have a large number of nationwide talent This means there's a good chance that if you took the top 1-2 from each Socal youth team a good number would play professionally.

If NWSL had a homegrown rule SD Wave and Angel City would quickly dominate because they could pay big money for talent and sprinkle in local talent.

Before the Premier League, the English first division tried that. Only 3 non-UK born players in the first 11. Failed. Then MLS resurrected that rule, and it’s slowly going away.

 

[LouSag]

No feedback on coaches ever changing.

However I do see a significant opportunity for NWSL clubs like SD Wave or Angel City to open up Acadamies and give the best players opportunities to train to play professionally.

Right now top players are stuck in the youth -> college -> pro pipeline. For most the jump from youth -> pro is too much so they don't try for it.

Exactly what the women’s European teams are doing backed by large sums of money from the parent men’s club.
And that is one big reason ( of many reasons discussed on another thread), why the European women’s teams are better than or catching up rapidly to the USWNT.
NWSL clubs need to get their academies up and running yesterday and tie them into the youth clubs. If you want the most talented teenagers to be the future player pool of the USWNT, playing in an NWSL academy and bypassing the college game is essential. This is the European model, and it works, ala Spain and England women’s teams.

 

[sockma]

I don't disagree with your numbers.

But why go though all the effort to be on a top team if your goal isn't to play professionally?

Youth only goes on for so long. If you were a top level athlete and in your prime it would be hard to turn your back on something you love. A big money job doesn't gloss over feelings of what could have been.

It was their sport and they wanted to compete but they developed more interest than soccer as they went through middle school and high school. Also, they played it because they enjoyed it not because they wanted to make money from it. It's a different life from playing soccer and trying to make a living being a soccer player. There are a lot of satisfying wonderful careers out there. My daughter doesn't want to do it for a living because the lifestyle is not for her. Getting traded and making 35K a year while being benched a lot isn't fun to her. She'd rather pursue another interest that makes more money and allows her to continue playing soccer for the combined local league. She would have to be on the women's national team in order to be financially comfortable and the stats on that are low. 1 player per age group across the USA gets this lucky because we have 18-38 year old players on the National Team.

ECNL only trains 1.5 hours for 3 days a week, so it doesn't take up anymore time than any other Club soccer team.

 

[sockma]

Exactly what the women’s European teams are doing backed by large sums of money from the parent men’s club.
And that is one big reason ( of many reasons discussed on another thread), why the European women’s teams are better than or catching up rapidly to the USWNT.
NWSL clubs need to get their academies up and running yesterday and tie them into the youth clubs. If you want the most talented teenagers to be the future player pool of the USWNT, playing in an NWSL academy and bypassing the college game is essential. This is the European model, and it works, ala Spain and England women’s teams.

I think we've tried to force ourselves to become Europe and that's a mistake. We changed the age groups by year versus grades and that was a mistake. We take college out of the equation, and that's a mistake for USA women's soccer. Just like we are taking high school soccer out of the equation is a mistake. Our society is different and we need to think of how we build a system that works for our culture. Trying to be Spain or England is not going to happen because soccer is the ONLY sport in Europe.

If US Soccer wants to get back in, they need high school and college players/families/and cultures to love it. In order for them to love it, they need to be a part of it. We do have a great system that allows for easy transitions into other fields of work if sports doesn't work out but we want to end it for soccer players. How many more years will parents be willing to invest in soccer programs if college is not a genuine possibility?

 

[Noticer]

One of my bff's from old club team played college ball, got her degree and became a stay home mommy

 

[Veritas]

Here's the way I see it. If you think & are pretty confident you have a champion GOAT then you go for pro route. You follow the Trinity Rodman, Alyssa Thompson, Olivia Moultrie go pro before 18 route and skip college. If you don't have a GOAT then you make college a priority. For us it's college first since I do not have a GOAT.

 

[LouSag]

I think we've tried to force ourselves to become Europe and that's a mistake. We changed the age groups by year versus grades and that was a mistake. We take college out of the equation, and that's a mistake for USA women's soccer. Just like we are taking high school soccer out of the equation is a mistake. Our society is different and we need to think of how we build a system that works for our culture. Trying to be Spain or England is not going to happen because soccer is the ONLY sport in Europe.

If US Soccer wants to get back in, they need high school and college players/families/and cultures to love it. In order for them to love it, they need to be a part of it. We do have a great system that allows for easy transitions into other fields of work if sports doesn't work out but we want to end it for soccer players. How many more years will parents be willing to invest in soccer programs if college is not a genuine possibility?

The club path straight to the pro game in the USA (until the Academy system is developed) needs to be the path for the best of the best, usually identified at the age of around 15 years old…if the USA wants to stay top of the world. For these players, playing in college is not the best for their development. Look at all the one-and-done college players recently making the move to the NWSL. That trend will continue. However, passing up a degree at Stanford and hopping to the NWSL is, in my opinion, the dumbest decision you could ever make, but that’s for another discussion.

For the remaining 99.995 percent of female youth soccer players, taking the path thru the club system, HS soccer, and the college path is just fine. Yes, a small select of these players will play in the NWSL and possibly play in Europe. 95% plus of this group play club soccer to get recruited to play college soccer. And the benefits of sport stay with them through life.

However, I do disagree with your sentence where changing to age groups versus by grade was a mistake. I know parents who held kids back for an extra year of third or fourth grade so they would have a leg up in sports playing with other kids now in the same grade. Works when the kid is young. But if that developing kid turns pro, age is no longer a factor—you get to go up against some experienced players a decade older than you. And that is why players like Ms Turnbow and hundreds of unmentioned others leave the game for brighter pastures.

 

[Veritas]

However, passing up a degree at Stanford and hopping to the NWSL is, in my opinion, the dumbest decision you could ever make, but that’s for another discussion.

Yes but not if the NWSL deal & Sponsorship deal greatly exceeds the value of the Stanford 4 year degree given you have a GOAT and she is already in the USYNT path. Take the pro deal. If not then go for Stanford. College can wait & always be done online or after with the NWSL/Sponsorship money.

 

[Carlsbad7]

What people don't always understand is that playing in MLS Next doesn't make youth players ineligible for playing in college. Until you commit to playing professionally MLS Next players have the best of both worlds. They get to play against professional acadamies and they can still choose to play in college.

This is whats missing for youth girls either you're all in as a pro or you're playing in college. Assuming players want to go onto the next level. There's no middle ground for players that are probably good enough to play in the NWSL but not willing to go all in at a young age. If there was something like NWSL Next players could test the water to see if it's something the like.

 

[sockma]

The club path straight to the pro game in the USA (until the Academy system is developed) needs to be the path for the best of the best, usually identified at the age of around 15 years old…if the USA wants to stay top of the world. For these players, playing in college is not the best for their development. Look at all the one-and-done college players recently making the move to the NWSL. That trend will continue. However, passing up a degree at Stanford and hopping to the NWSL is, in my opinion, the dumbest decision you could ever make, but that’s for another discussion.

For the remaining 99.995 percent of female youth soccer players, taking the path thru the club system, HS soccer, and the college path is just fine. Yes, a small select of these players will play in the NWSL and possibly play in Europe. 95% plus of this group play club soccer to get recruited to play college soccer. And the benefits of sport stay with them through life.

However, I do disagree with your sentence where changing to age groups versus by grade was a mistake. I know parents who held kids back for an extra year of third or fourth grade so they would have a leg up in sports playing with other kids now in the same grade. Works when the kid is young. But if that developing kid turns pro, age is no longer a factor—you get to go up against some experienced players a decade older than you. And that is why players like Ms Turnbow and hundreds of unmentioned others leave the game for brighter pastures.

Playing with your school age should be allowed only within certain time frame parameters.
Growing the game in high school and college will help grow the game professionally and nationally.
Yes, we should maintain a pro path for young girls who are not interested in school at a young age and willing to give up all their friends and high school experiences.

However, it is a mistake to take away the college pathway.

We are not Europe and very different from Europe, we will not be able to compete with Europe if we try to be Europe.

Girls are different from boys, emotionally and financially (the pay gap is huge in pro sports).

If we embrace the differences and find creative ways to help improve as many players as possible within our culture, then we can beat Europe.

If we try to force the Europe route, you'll start seeing less participation soccer once middle school hits and less girls choosing to play soccer and watch soccer later in the life. Girls will start choosing other sports more like boys are.

What we'll end up with is a smaller pool of players for our national team and more players imported from Europe to NWSL, just like the men's game.

Which then leads to a smaller audience for NWSL.

 

[Surfer_dad]

Enjoy the top 10. It's fun when the kids are young. Most men just don't understand that the female is not the same as the male regarding their bodies changing and all the hormones that come with it during their first period. Tough love of being upfront with a young teenager's weight, especially when their body is changing is total bullshit, especially in front of your teammates, MOO!

Truer words have never been spoken. Good coaches of character don’t abandon respect and kindness. Coaches of bad character do. We need to call out the bad ones and encourage the good ones. Also, I will echo again the huge difference between boys and girls. We ask girls to take on masculine traits on the soccer field and that only can go so far. I asked my daughter to play like a boy on the field and to be a lady off the field. I was blessed that she pulled it off.

 

[Veritas]

Playing with your school age should be allowed only within certain time frame parameters.
Growing the game in high school and college will help grow the game professionally and nationally.
Yes, we should maintain a pro path for young girls who are not interested in school at a young age and willing to give up all their friends and high school experiences.

However, it is a mistake to take away the college pathway.

We are not Europe and very different from Europe, we will not be able to compete with Europe if we try to be Europe.

Girls are different from boys, emotionally and financially (the pay gap is huge in pro sports).

If we embrace the differences and find creative ways to help improve as many players as possible within our culture, then we can beat Europe.

If we try to force the Europe route, you'll start seeing less participation soccer once middle school hits and less girls choosing to play soccer and watch soccer later in the life. Girls will start choosing other sports more like boys are.

What we'll end up with is a smaller pool of players for our national team and more players imported from Europe to NWSL, just like the men's game.

Which then leads to a smaller audience for NWSL.

I do not think anyone is against the college pathway since 99% of girls playing soccer need to take that route. The argument is to have an academy pro pathway for the 1% eilte girl players. We need that here in the USA to develop elite pro players.

 

[sockma]

I do not think anyone is against the college pathway since 99% of girls playing soccer need to take that route. The argument is to have an academy pro pathway for the 1% eilte girl players. We need that here in the USA to develop elite pro players.

I must be misunderstanding the message because what I read indicates the desire to turn our current system to the European male system for ALL elite female soccer players. I think that's a mistake for the girls in the long run.

This should be ONE option for the girls who are willing to sacrifice their high school experience but we should continue another Elite soccer pathway for girls within the high school and college system for other elite soccer players who are not willing to give up their childhood high school years or college years.

If we build the high school experience and the college soccer experience, the net is cast wider and retain more athletic players that can develop into elite players through high school and college. The more elite players out there, the better our elite players will be.

 

[LouSag]

Yes but not if the NWSL deal & Sponsorship deal greatly exceeds the value of the Stanford 4 year degree given you have a GOAT and she is already in the USYNT path. Take the pro deal. If not then go for Stanford. College can wait & always be done online or after with the NWSL/Sponsorship money.

Disagree. Career earnings of a NWSL soccer player including NIL deals. After NWSL, you are most likely to be coaching club soccer. Nothing wrong with that path.
Career potential for a Stanford grad easily eclipses the scenario above. Money isn’t everything, but graduating Stanford will pay the bills for a lifetime, not just the next 5 years. Take the Education.

 

[TeamDadJokes]

Nothing is ever a sure thing. Seen plenty of kids leave for college and come back a year or 2 later and go to JC and stay home.

I’ve seen kids go pro early and it didn’t pan out and now they’re selling used cars.

You’d hope going to Stanford results in completion, graduating and moving on to something higher (higher education or employment).

Going pro, you’d hope you’re successful and injuries don’t hinder your advancement.

2 different pathways but in one scenario, it’s gamble you’ll play pro when you graduate, it’s a gamble you’ll be able to get a useful degree if you’re going to a school with that high of an education standard as most times these athletes aren’t able to get into college majors that translate into trade skills upon graduation.

If the offer to go to Stanford is educational and not funded by sports then I think we’re talking about a different scenario where it does make sense to forgo a pro pathway (ie you’re going to med school, law school, engineering and etc). Let’s be honest though, is it really worth it for a degree in kinesiology or liberal arts to play soccer at Stanford?

I think what each pathway offers is unique to the person it’s offered and what they want to do for a living once they’re done with sports.

For me, I stopped sports when I got to college and decided I’d rather have fun with my fraternity, play intramural sports and enjoy life rather then cutting weight and wresting touring the country. Took me a while and 2 master degrees later to figure my way out.

For these kids, life is fluid and can change at any moment. Whatever my DDs end goal is, I’m there to support it. There is nothing wrong with going to CSUF and getting a degree while playing professionally. School would be paid for regardless and you get to play at a higher level. With NIL I’m sure it would be a intriguing story for job recruiters to say they had a former soccer pro apply just as it would be to say they have a Stanford grad given the context for what they’re applying to.

 

[way up]

Nothing is ever a sure thing. Seen plenty of kids leave for college and come back a year or 2 later and go to JC and stay home.

I’ve seen kids go pro early and it didn’t pan out and now they’re selling used cars.

You’d hope going to Stanford results in completion, graduating and moving on to something higher (higher education or employment).

Going pro, you’d hope you’re successful and injuries don’t hinder your advancement.

2 different pathways but in one scenario, it’s gamble you’ll play pro when you graduate, it’s a gamble you’ll be able to get a useful degree if you’re going to a school with that high of an education standard as most times these athletes aren’t able to get into college majors that translate into trade skills upon graduation.

If the offer to go to Stanford is educational and not funded by sports then I think we’re talking about a different scenario where it does make sense to forgo a pro pathway (ie you’re going to med school, law school, engineering and etc). Let’s be honest though, is it really worth it for a degree in kinesiology or liberal arts to play soccer at Stanford?

I think what each pathway offers is unique to the person it’s offered and what they want to do for a living once they’re done with sports.

For me, I stopped sports when I got to college and decided I’d rather have fun with my fraternity, play intramural sports and enjoy life rather then cutting weight and wresting touring the country. Took me a while and 2 master degrees later to figure my way out.

For these kids, life is fluid and can change at any moment. Whatever my DDs end goal is, I’m there to support it. There is nothing wrong with going to CSUF and getting a degree while playing professionally. School would be paid for regardless and you get to play at a higher level. With NIL I’m sure it would be a intriguing story for job recruiters to say they had a former soccer pro apply just as it would be to say they have a Stanford grad given the context for what they’re applying to.

You see here we are where there could be advantages for women. Women graduate at a higher rate than boys and boys have far more rewards/reason to go pro than girls. All girls are different of course, but many corporations are looking to fill in spots with women with equal credentials as men, so there are plenty of opportunities for great pay/success with a college degree for women.

They have options either way, but the last piece of the puzzle is also who they marry or end up with. Not bad either way to be a pro soccer player or around successful college kids? Getting through the menstrual phase and high school to get the college scholarship and/or pro spot would be a grand slam imo.

It will be their decision at the end of the day, but a degree or A NWSL Contract would be amazing imo! Problem is, no way around that college degree being the best bet for success and finding a partner imo though.

The bigger issues though will be how to navigate through puberty and high school. I just saw a story about a young baseball star that went pro young and he ended up with anxiety and depression. Don't know if going from being a star to another great athlete having to work his tail off was the cause, but I wonder alot about the best psychological/environmental factors that give them the best chance at succeeding in college soccer or going pro? I don't care what people say about pressure leading to girls quitting, the bottom line is if your girl is not working her butt off and dominating in soccer, you won't have to worry about them dropping out in high school. I don't even worry about it now. Oh no, I can get my weekends and money back to travel somewhere other than Nv or Az.? The kid needs to want this more than the parent in the long run imo.

 

[Zeke]

I do not think anyone is against the college pathway since 99% of girls playing soccer need to take that route. The argument is to have an academy pro pathway for the 1% eilte girl players. We need that here in the USA to develop elite pro players.

If you want to know the odds of becoming an elite pro player, count the number of American NWSL players who were born in 1994.

It's about ten.

That tells you roughly how many 2010s will have a ten year pro career. About 10.