High School Soccer

[Keeperkat]

Question.....what does your high school soccer team do related to practice games now through Thanksgiving?

Our coach has scheduled practices from 2:40 to 4:30 every day. In addition, a 5:45 a.m. practice is scheduled Wednesday at 5:45 a.m to 7:00 a.m. on top of the afternoon practice. Therefore, these girls, when considering club practice will be required to practice 3.3 hours in a day at least 2 days a week (on Wednesdays it would be 4.5 hours of training in a day) and some girls train 3 days a week with club and play 1 to 2 games on the weekend. I can't even imagine how some of the girls will fit in academics.

They also stated if our football team loses this Friday we will have to start practicing in the evenings 5 days a week next week though club is still training. He runs the team like a dictator so the girls are in fear of him. My daughter had a dentist appointment and she was told she could not miss any more practices.

This same coach scheduled a game not a scrimmage on November 16 and is pressuring girls to not do club tournaments. He stated to the girls, "I don't know why you are even going to the college showcases if you are already committed". He told one of the goalkeepers she could play on November 16 and he would figure it out. She is supposed to play in 2 tournaments for club after that game. She will end up having to sit out 2 games for every 1 game she plays in club so she will have to sit out 10 games because she will be playing 5 total games.

Do other high school soccer teams operate this way or what is your practice schedule like?

In reading my post I sound like a troll. I promise you I am not. This appears insane to me.

 

[#girldad]

Is your coach also a club coach? I recommend you gather a group of parents whose kids play club and talk to the Coach. My daughter has a couple scrimmages scheduled early December, but she'll be in Tennessee for the showcase. Although 90% of our girls are committed, our club coach wants all the girls to still attend the Arizona and Tennessee Showcases. You hold all the cards anyway because scouts/colleges don't really attend high school games.

 

[Code]

I agree with #girldad, get the parents together on the issue first, then talk to the coach as a group. For my player, we talked with club and HS coaches about the overlap, and will be splitting the practices in half; half the week in HS, half in club, no HS contest participation until club is wrapped up. HS Coach is well aware that some players will be playing club contests into Dec., so didn't schedule matches until Dec.. At this point in the season, a lot of club players are working with overuse injuries, and looking forward to resting up a bit before HS play starts. A HS Coach who puts this much training into their players now, will have a significant number of players with overuse injuries during the season, IMO. These HS coaches should be smarter about the transition period between club and HS, as most of them coach club.

 

[TopesWin]

Stuff like this is how programs end up like the ones described in the King & Spaulding report. As parents, we all need to be less afraid of putting our foot down. But especially the parents of the premier superstars need to object - loudly. They're the ones that the tyrant coaches are more likely to listen to. The average player will just be stomped on and told to go elsewhere.

 

[Grace T.]

Stuff like this is how programs end up like the ones described in the King & Spaulding report. As parents, we all need to be less afraid of putting our foot down. But especially the parents of the premier superstars need to object - loudly. They're the ones that the tyrant coaches are more likely to listen to. The average player will just be stomped on and told to go elsewhere.

I just wound up having to put down my foot at my kid's high school. Kiddo is mad at me for doing so, saying they'll punish him by sending him down to JV. But he couldn't keep up with the schedule and do his homework, they kept dragging out his placement, and he finally has a conflict there's no way he can make both sides happy with. Told them we'll see you when the window opens if you still want him....he'll miss the first game but oh well.

 

[Speed]

Question.....what does your high school soccer team do related to practice games now through Thanksgiving? Our coach has scheduled practices from 2:40 to 4:30 every day. In addition, a 5:45 a.m. practice is scheduled Wednesday at 5:45 a.m to 7:00 a.m. on top of the afternoon practice. Therefore, these girls, when considering club practice will be required to practice 3.3 hours in a day at least 2 days a week (on Wednesdays it would be 4.5 hours of training in a day) and some girls train 3 days a week with club and play 1 to 2 games on the weekend. I can't even imagine how some of the girls will fit in academics. They also stated if our football team loses this Friday we will have to start practicing in the evenings 5 days a week next week though club is still training. He runs the team like a dictator so the girls are in fear of him. My daughter had a dentist appointment and she was told she could not miss any more practices. This same coach scheduled a game not a scrimmage on November 16 and is pressuring girls to not do club tournaments. He stated to the girls, "I don't know why you are even going to the college showcases if you are already committed". He told one of the goalkeepers she could play on November 16 and he would figure it out. She is supposed to play in 2 tournaments for club after that game. She will end up having to sit out 2 games for every 1 game she plays in club so she will have to sit out 10 games because she will be playing 5 total games. Do other high school soccer teams operate this way or what is your practice schedule like? In reading my post I sound like a troll. I promise you I am not. This appears insane to me.

Question.....what does your high school soccer team do related to practice games now through Thanksgiving?

Our coach has scheduled practices from 2:40 to 4:30 every day. In addition, a 5:45 a.m. practice is scheduled Wednesday at 5:45 a.m to 7:00 a.m. on top of the afternoon practice. Therefore, these girls, when considering club practice will be required to practice 3.3 hours in a day at least 2 days a week (on Wednesdays it would be 4.5 hours of training in a day) and some girls train 3 days a week with club and play 1 to 2 games on the weekend. I can't even imagine how some of the girls will fit in academics.

They also stated if our football team loses this Friday we will have to start practicing in the evenings 5 days a week next week though club is still training. He runs the team like a dictator so the girls are in fear of him. My daughter had a dentist appointment and she was told she could not miss any more practices.

This same coach scheduled a game not a scrimmage on November 16 and is pressuring girls to not do club tournaments. He stated to the girls, "I don't know why you are even going to the college showcases if you are already committed". He told one of the goalkeepers she could play on November 16 and he would figure it out. She is supposed to play in 2 tournaments for club after that game. She will end up having to sit out 2 games for every 1 game she plays in club so she will have to sit out 10 games because she will be playing 5 total games.

Do other high school soccer teams operate this way or what is your practice schedule like?

In reading my post I sound like a troll. I promise you I am not. This appears insane to me.

wow, this guy seems like a tool. Setting the tone for how the season is going to go and you need to look out for your player. This is the tip of the iceberg. DD played under a coach like this and he really was mentally abusive. Luckily her club coach was the exact opposite and knew the HS coach so he really helped her. Best of luck because my DD had a great team both in talent and friends. I think the coach actually drove them closer to one another. Many families went to the AD about the coach. best of luck

 

[Keeperkat]

I just wound up having to put down my foot at my kid's high school. Kiddo is mad at me for doing so, saying they'll punish him by sending him down to JV. But he couldn't keep up with the schedule and do his homework, they kept dragging out his placement, and he finally has a conflict there's no way he can make both sides happy with. Told them we'll see you when the window opens if you still want him....he'll miss the first game but oh well.

You know what Grace, I did the same. What is strange to me and really speaks to the control this coach has is I am the only parent that did put their foot down. My daughter even made arrangements with the coach for not attending one of the 5:45 a.m. practices (I said no way....you get home from club training at 10:00 at night. The potential for impact all around is too great) that she would run the stadium stairs etc. during 6th period and she did so with the boys soccer team. She did that on her own. I was impressed that she was looking for a solution for an unreasonable demand. I am very proud of her work ethic. Any way, he ultimately angrily stated to her in front of the team, "You need to choose" and another coach told her she can't miss anymore practices. Or else was not defined nor was any requirements.

I told my daughter she can do what she wants with HS soccer if she quits club soccer but I will not relent and allow her to train with both on the same day on a regular basis and I will not allow 5:45 a.m. practice prior to club ending for the season. Obviously club training would suffer as well from being over tired and stressed. She knows this is not up for negotiation. She somewhat understands but has said, every other parent is allowing it. To that I responded, when have I made decisions based on what other parents are doing. The risk is absolutely not worth it.

 

[Keeperkat]

Is your coach also a club coach? I recommend you gather a group of parents whose kids play club and talk to the Coach. My daughter has a couple scrimmages scheduled early December, but she'll be in Tennessee for the showcase. Although 90% of our girls are committed, our club coach wants all the girls to still attend the Arizona and Tennessee Showcases. You hold all the cards anyway because scouts/colleges don't really attend high school games.

Not a club coach and has never been one. Has never coached a girls team either. Daughter wants to play with her friends even though it is jungle ball. That is the challenge. I would run the other way if it wasn't for that. I may be left with no other alternative but to pull her. I am on the fence right now doing my best to prevent that from happening. This goes beyond the normal politics of HS soccer.

 

[Keeperkat]

Stuff like this is how programs end up like the ones described in the King & Spaulding report. As parents, we all need to be less afraid of putting our foot down. But especially the parents of the premier superstars need to object - loudly. They're the ones that the tyrant coaches are more likely to listen to. The average player will just be stomped on and told to go elsewhere.

Funny thing is and very very strange is that isn't how it works in this program. Top club ECNL player D1 commit shows up for tryouts her senior year for the first time. The coaches in the program have made it clear that no freshman can make Varsity no matter how good they are. I can only presume this player and family chose to only tryout when the coach could not put her lower than Varsity. She did not make the team yet she was already committed at tryouts. The parents scheduled a meeting with the coach and administration and the coach did not show up. Ultimately that player was put on the team and that coach (the mentee of the current coach for the last 23 years) resigned. Much more drama and craziness but that is the jist. Also this year, a top ECNL player did not make Varsity as a freshman. Much more to that story too. I can't make this crap up. It is insane!!!

 

[Keeperkat]

wow, this guy seems like a tool. Setting the tone for how the season is going to go and you need to look out for your player. This is the tip of the iceberg. DD played under a coach like this and he really was mentally abusive. Luckily her club coach was the exact opposite and knew the HS coach so he really helped her. Best of luck because my DD had a great team both in talent and friends. I think the coach actually drove them closer to one another. Many families went to the AD about the coach. best of luck

"Tool" is a compliment. I 100% agree with you that this may be the tip of the iceberg. The sad part is, the AD is part of the problem. Having said that, I may have made some progress. Practice was cancelled for 2 days.

 

[Zeke]

You know what Grace, I did the same. What is strange to me and really speaks to the control this coach has is I am the only parent that did put their foot down. My daughter even made arrangements with the coach for not attending one of the 5:45 a.m. practices (I said no way....you get home from club training at 10:00 at night. The potential for impact all around is too great) that she would run the stadium stairs etc. during 6th period and she did so with the boys soccer team. She did that on her own. I was impressed that she was looking for a solution for an unreasonable demand. I am very proud of her work ethic. Any way, he ultimately angrily stated to her in front of the team, "You need to choose" and another coach told her she can't miss anymore practices. Or else was not defined nor was any requirements.

I told my daughter she can do what she wants with HS soccer if she quits club soccer but I will not relent and allow her to train with both on the same day on a regular basis and I will not allow 5:45 a.m. practice prior to club ending for the season. Obviously club training would suffer as well from being over tired and stressed. She knows this is not up for negotiation. She somewhat understands but has said, every other parent is allowing it. To that I responded, when have I made decisions based on what other parents are doing. The risk is absolutely not worth it.

You’re doing the right thing. She’d be facing ten practices and two games every week. That’s just begging for an injury.

We had a similar experience, though not so extreme. DD wound up playing with friends by switching to other school sports where the coach was happy to have her part time. It helps that the other teams at her school were not all that competitive.

 

[TopesWin]

Funny thing is and very very strange is that isn't how it works in this program. Top club ECNL player D1 commit shows up for tryouts her senior year for the first time. The coaches in the program have made it clear that no freshman can make Varsity no matter how good they are. I can only presume this player and family chose to only tryout when the coach could not put her lower than Varsity. She did not make the team yet she was already committed at tryouts. The parents scheduled a meeting with the coach and administration and the coach did not show up. Ultimately that player was put on the team and that coach (the mentee of the current coach for the last 23 years) resigned. Much more drama and craziness but that is the jist. Also this year, a top ECNL player did not make Varsity as a freshman. Much more to that story too. I can't make this crap up. It is insane!!!

Learning a lesson about standing up to tyrants, and that she has the resilience to recover from the disappointment, is much more important than 3 months of jungle ball with her classmates.

 

[crush]

Funny thing is and very very strange is that isn't how it works in this program. Top club ECNL player D1 commit shows up for tryouts her senior year for the first time. The coaches in the program have made it clear that no freshman can make Varsity no matter how good they are. I can only presume this player and family chose to only tryout when the coach could not put her lower than Varsity. She did not make the team yet she was already committed at tryouts. The parents scheduled a meeting with the coach and administration and the coach did not show up. Ultimately that player was put on the team and that coach (the mentee of the current coach for the last 23 years) resigned. Much more drama and craziness but that is the jist. Also this year, a top ECNL player did not make Varsity as a freshman. Much more to that story too. I can't make this crap up. It is insane!!!

Dumb!

 

[Speed]

"Tool" is a compliment. I 100% agree with you that this may be the tip of the iceberg. The sad part is, the AD is part of the problem. Having said that, I may have made some progress. Practice was cancelled for 2 days.

Good on the cancellation. And our issue was also the AD as they were one and the same. They both left at the end of my DD senior year, while I was happy for the younger players I was sad for those my DD age. It was not a coincidence and a friend that works at the school I had dinner with last night confirmed that both were canned. Best of luck, I will look forward to more updates!!

 

[Scrub It Kook]

You know what Grace, I did the same. What is strange to me and really speaks to the control this coach has is I am the only parent that did put their foot down. My daughter even made arrangements with the coach for not attending one of the 5:45 a.m. practices (I said no way....you get home from club training at 10:00 at night. The potential for impact all around is too great) that she would run the stadium stairs etc. during 6th period and she did so with the boys soccer team. She did that on her own. I was impressed that she was looking for a solution for an unreasonable demand. I am very proud of her work ethic. Any way, he ultimately angrily stated to her in front of the team, "You need to choose" and another coach told her she can't miss anymore practices. Or else was not defined nor was any requirements.

I told my daughter she can do what she wants with HS soccer if she quits club soccer but I will not relent and allow her to train with both on the same day on a regular basis and I will not allow 5:45 a.m. practice prior to club ending for the season. Obviously club training would suffer as well from being over tired and stressed. She knows this is not up for negotiation. She somewhat understands but has said, every other parent is allowing it. To that I responded, when have I made decisions based on what other parents are doing. The risk is absolutely not worth it.

Overuse injuries are a real thing. Good call.

 

[Eagle33]

Funny thing is and very very strange is that isn't how it works in this program. Top club ECNL player D1 commit shows up for tryouts her senior year for the first time. The coaches in the program have made it clear that no freshman can make Varsity no matter how good they are. I can only presume this player and family chose to only tryout when the coach could not put her lower than Varsity. She did not make the team yet she was already committed at tryouts. The parents scheduled a meeting with the coach and administration and the coach did not show up. Ultimately that player was put on the team and that coach (the mentee of the current coach for the last 23 years) resigned. Much more drama and craziness but that is the jist. Also this year, a top ECNL player did not make Varsity as a freshman. Much more to that story too. I can't make this crap up. It is insane!!!

Where is the idea of any ECNL player should be playing on Varsity as a freshmen is coming from?? It's not about how good the player is, its more about the maturity and about 14 yo hanging with a 19yo.

 

[NorCalDad]

Where is the idea of any ECNL player should be playing on Varsity as a freshmen is coming from?? It's not about how good the player is, its more about the maturity and about 14 yo hanging with a 19yo.

I think it's more of a shift from what these kids have been dealing with since they were U8s -- where you have to earn your role on the team and the goal of the coaches is to put together the most competitive team they can (in their minds). In high school, all bets are off in this regard. It really is recreational soccer but where club players decide they want to play too. Personally, I think for players that want to play at a high level there needs to be a solid option that avoids high school play. I totally get the social benefits of playing for your school, but three months (x4 years) is a long time to be getting some really bad training. Imagine Barca academy girls taking three months off to go play rec soccer. I feel like I heard GA used to be like MLS Next in this regard. I think ECNL should provide something for players that don't want to play high school soccer. Some kind of pooled play system.

 

[dk_b]

My older kid loved HS soccer. It did not hurt her development and did not negatively impact her college career.

Fortunately, our HS coach has told the girls to finish out their club commitments and not to double up on any day of practice. My younger girls are returning from ACL injuries so are on load limitations and he has no issue with that - does not make them feel badly, understands that some days they will go to PT instead or practice, etc.

All coaches need to manage workload and this guy, frankly, sounds unhinged. He may make it through the season without catastrophic injuries but he’s increasing the risk. (Fatigue = break down in form; break down in form = heightened injury risk. And it’s not just overdoing it in one practice but in the series of workouts, day after day, week after week)

 

[Grace T.]

I think it's more of a shift from what these kids have been dealing with since they were U8s -- where you have to earn your role on the team and the goal of the coaches is to put together the most competitive team they can (in their minds). In high school, all bets are off in this regard. It really is recreational soccer but where club players decide they want to play too. Personally, I think for players that want to play at a high level there needs to be a solid option that avoids high school play. I totally get the social benefits of playing for your school, but three months (x4 years) is a long time to be getting some really bad training. Imagine Barca academy girls taking three months off to go play rec soccer. I feel like I heard GA used to be like MLS Next in this regard. I think ECNL should provide something for players that don't want to play high school soccer. Some kind of pooled play system.

The problem is that it would become a de facto ban because ECNL coaches would put pressures on their players to participate instead of playing rec jungle ball. "If you don't participate, expect to be on the bench when you come back in spring."

If ECNL was really about creating professional players, I think it would be a different story. Similarly, I get why MLS Academy players and residential academies would not be allowed to play HS ball, but I don't get why the rest of the MLS Next (virtually none of which have chances within the MLS or Europe) should not be able to play high school other than they need to be available as cannon fodder.

I agree, however, its a big shift from earning your role on the team v. politics. I do note, however, at the highest boys levels, it really is much more a true meritocracy because money is actually on the table including scholarships handed out by private high schools.

 

[Grace T.]

Where is the idea of any ECNL player should be playing on Varsity as a freshmen is coming from?? It's not about how good the player is, its more about the maturity and about 14 yo hanging with a 19yo.

I don't really buy the maturity angle, particularly considering some kids play up (either as first stringers or backup reserves). Besides, there is a vast difference in skill level between an ECNL freshman and a flight 2 senior, particularly on the girls side since most of their growth is wrapped up anyways by age 15. The ECNL freshman probably also has a more established and rigorous work ethic than the flight 2 senior anyways and almost is guaranteed to take the game far more seriously, physically mentally and technically. It's either a meritocracy or it's not, and except for the highest boy high school teams, many high school teams aren't.