What's Wrong College Soccer

SIMONMAGUS

SILVER
At pro clubs, almost anywhere in the world these days, young players will also run into players with totally different backgrounds, players who bring a variety of styles and approaches to the sport.

The gap between the pro scene, with its harsh competition, its varied influences, its non-stop devotion to the sport is planets away from the lotus fields of college soccer. If college soccer has slowly edged away from the all-white, suburban athlete image that it carried into the 21st century, it has not moved nearly far enough.

In theory -- on paper, that is -- there is plenty to be said for the more humanist approach of college soccer. But in competition with the worldwide pro approach to the business of producing star soccer players, it’s a sure-fire loser.

https://www.socceramerica.com/article/55409/college-soccer-simply-unreal.html
 
college soccer is just a vehicle to give the student and parents a break on college tuition through scholarships.

There will never be a direct correlation between college soccer and pro soccer. Sure there's some players that make it to the pro's through college. The reality is that if you want to make it to the pros you need to follow the path of the rest of the world players.
In the USA, We cannot treat the path to pro soccer the same way it happens with football and basketball.
 
The Europeans think its ridiculous that we waste 4 years of training for boys in college with competition which is relatively homogeneous, with (in their opinion) sub par (because anyone that's good enough would be playing pro in Europe or Latin America) competitors, with subpar training, and a very short season.

On the other hand, the Europeans could give a about girls. The US has been dominant in the women's sport because there is no equivalent pro action in Europe for women. Further, the Europeans have a very different approach to education. Not everyone is entitled to go to college. Kids are tracked (and successful families whose kids don't get into programs in Europe send their kids here) and usually their education is paid for by the state if they are fortunate enough to make the grade. There are far less amenities and very few school-affiliated teams. Education in Europe is about developing your profession-- there are no doctors who study Shakespeare or lawyers that learn music appreciation -- you don't major in "English"....you major in your professional subject matter like law or medicine.

Our club system has developed as a result to support college enrollments...very broad based supporting not just the best of the best players but also the very good ones. The European Academy system tracks...by 8 you are picked for an academy team and to get on afterwards is very difficult but plenty of players are cut along the way. Their focus is on developing the best of the best, and if others can't hack it, well too bad so sad. It's the same approach when it comes to ascension and relegation in their leagues-- survival of the fittest. Their salaries reflect that as well (even more so when it comes to Latin America)...the Messis and Ronaldos of the world will do quite well, but the full back for the 15th level team in the league isn't doing as well. And because we have a club system, we don't see as many Hispanic athletes (as complained in the article) playing soccer as we might otherwise simply because of the pay-to-play expenses.

I'm not picking sides on which system is better or worse-- they are both geared to producing different ultimate ends. But the United States is never going to have a system like Europe so long as we think college is a place for kids to get a broad education and that every kid deserves such an education, and so long as sports is linked into that system (and you aren't going to delink them for any of the sports so long as college football and basketball remain as popular and are such moneymakers for the colleges). And even if you could change things, how many middle class families would be willing to send their 8 year olds to an academy that takes them off the safe academic track for a risky chance that they might be Messi (assuming puberty is kind and the kid turns out to be gifted and doesn't suffer a debilitating injury), when its more likely that the kid is going to wash out, or if they are lucky, that he might get stuck playing for an MLS team for a few years at roughly the salary of a civil service job....it's why so many of the greats come out of the barrios.
 
There is nothing wrong with college soccer, assuming you are going to college for the purpose of getting an education.

If you are going to college because you think this is the path to a professional soccer career, well, you are just plain stupid. But, if you can stick around for the full 4-5 years, at least you will get an education.
 
There is nothing wrong with college soccer, assuming you are going to college for the purpose of getting an education.

If you are going to college because you think this is the path to a professional soccer career, well, you are just plain stupid. But, if you can stick around for the full 4-5 years, at least you will get an education.
There is nothing wrong with college soccer, assuming you are going to college for the purpose of getting an education.

If you are going to college because you think this is the path to a professional soccer career, well, you are just plain stupid. But, if you can stick around for the full 4-5 years, at least you will get an education.
With life expectancy now into the 80's, you better make sure you have a career outside of sports.
 
The Europeans think its ridiculous that we waste 4 years of training for boys in college with competition which is relatively homogeneous, with (in their opinion) sub par (because anyone that's good enough would be playing pro in Europe or Latin America) competitors, with subpar training, and a very short season.

On the other hand, the Europeans could give a about girls. The US has been dominant in the women's sport because there is no equivalent pro action in Europe for women. Further, the Europeans have a very different approach to education. Not everyone is entitled to go to college. Kids are tracked (and successful families whose kids don't get into programs in Europe send their kids here) and usually their education is paid for by the state if they are fortunate enough to make the grade. There are far less amenities and very few school-affiliated teams. Education in Europe is about developing your profession-- there are no doctors who study Shakespeare or lawyers that learn music appreciation -- you don't major in "English"....you major in your professional subject matter like law or medicine.

Our club system has developed as a result to support college enrollments...very broad based supporting not just the best of the best players but also the very good ones. The European Academy system tracks...by 8 you are picked for an academy team and to get on afterwards is very difficult but plenty of players are cut along the way. Their focus is on developing the best of the best, and if others can't hack it, well too bad so sad. It's the same approach when it comes to ascension and relegation in their leagues-- survival of the fittest. Their salaries reflect that as well (even more so when it comes to Latin America)...the Messis and Ronaldos of the world will do quite well, but the full back for the 15th level team in the league isn't doing as well. And because we have a club system, we don't see as many Hispanic athletes (as complained in the article) playing soccer as we might otherwise simply because of the pay-to-play expenses.

I'm not picking sides on which system is better or worse-- they are both geared to producing different ultimate ends. But the United States is never going to have a system like Europe so long as we think college is a place for kids to get a broad education and that every kid deserves such an education, and so long as sports is linked into that system (and you aren't going to delink them for any of the sports so long as college football and basketball remain as popular and are such moneymakers for the colleges). And even if you could change things, how many middle class families would be willing to send their 8 year olds to an academy that takes them off the safe academic track for a risky chance that they might be Messi (assuming puberty is kind and the kid turns out to be gifted and doesn't suffer a debilitating injury), when its more likely that the kid is going to wash out, or if they are lucky, that he might get stuck playing for an MLS team for a few years at roughly the salary of a civil service job....it's why so many of the greats come out of the barrios.

Insert Mic drop here....
 
Our club system has developed as a result to support college enrollments...very broad based supporting not just the best of the best players but also the very good ones.

Maybe it's a minor point, but I would take issue with this, as it makes it seem like US youth club soccer is well integrated into a rational system of developing players/students for college. I find it much more haphazard, with most clubs and coaches really having very little idea what the college soccer scene looks like and what college coaches are actually looking for. In the larger sense, I'm not really sure that US youth soccer is really "geared" to much of anything at all beyond perpetuating itself.

Personally, I'd go even further and argue that the main driver of the American club soccer environment was that DOCs, coaches, and tournament directors recognized an opportunity to earn a decent living. Part of how they did so was using college admission/scholarships as a lure. Nothing really wrong with all this; to the extent that they're failing to develop world class players, I'd also say that the US Soccer fed didn't do enough to ensure high standards.

The European Academy system tracks...by 8 you are picked for an academy team and to get on afterwards is very difficult but plenty of players are cut along the way. Their focus is on developing the best of the best, and if others can't hack it, well too bad so sad.

I'd also take issue with this. DA here follows this exact logic too, just like the small slice of very top Euro academies. Here in the US we expend a huge amount of energy trying to sort out the elite and casting aside everyone else - tryout season lasts months, every single year. It's true that the very top European pro club academies are very competitive. However, the thing is that there are so many professional teams academies and even private academies, late bloomers have plenty of opportunities to play at a very high level and still bounce back up to the very top in their late teens or early twenties. But furthermore, because soccer is so highly integrated into everyday life, there are many more opportunities and resources in recreational soccer. As a result, the overall soccer IQ and culture is much higher in Europe, which makes it easier for the top players to develop soccer intelligence. (Does anyone remember that article about Ajax in the NY Times sunday magazine from years ago? It discussed how the dutch invest heavily in recreational soccer, on the assumption that if they teach everyone, a handful of kids will fall in love with the sport and develop excellence in it.)

And even if you could change things, how many middle class families would be willing to send their 8 year olds to an academy that takes them off the safe academic track for a risky chance that they might be Messi (assuming puberty is kind and the kid turns out to be gifted and doesn't suffer a debilitating injury), when its more likely that the kid is going to wash out, or if they are lucky, that he might get stuck playing for an MLS team for a few years at roughly the salary of a civil service job....it's why so many of the greats come out of the barrios.

I may be wrong about this, but my impression is that at least the top Euro club academies are now investing more in the academic education of their youth players, not because they care about the kids, but because they feel that it helps develop the intelligence required to be a top player on and off the field. Similarly, it's my impression that in Europe, players are now coming more from the middle class than out of the projects. (See Das Reboot)

Having said all that, I agree with your broad point that it's very different in Europe and the US and it's hard to see how things could change here:
I'm not picking sides on which system is better or worse-- they are both geared to producing different ultimate ends. But the United States is never going to have a system like Europe so long as we think college is a place for kids to get a broad education and that every kid deserves such an education, and so long as sports is linked into that system (and you aren't going to delink them for any of the sports so long as college football and basketball remain as popular and are such moneymakers for the colleges).
I'd just add that the differences are even more fundamental. In the US, we value choice and the individual, private pursuit of happiness, so there are many more different sports to play or watch. In Europe, the culture is a little more monolithic, centralized, or unified, and for historical reasons, soccer is the primary activity for youth recreation and competition (for boys, at least). The soccer scenes reflect those differences.
 
I'd also take issue with this. DA here follows this exact logic too, just like the small slice of very top Euro academies. Here in the US we expend a huge amount of energy trying to sort out the elite and casting aside everyone else - tryout season lasts months, every single year. It's true that the very top European pro club academies are very competitive. However, the thing is that there are so many professional teams academies and even private academies, late bloomers have plenty of opportunities to play at a very high level and still bounce back up to the very top in their late teens or early twenties. But furthermore, because soccer is so highly integrated into everyday life, there are many more opportunities and resources in recreational soccer. As a result, the overall soccer IQ and culture is much higher in Europe, which makes it easier for the top players to develop soccer intelligence. (Does anyone remember that article about Ajax in the NY Times sunday magazine from years ago? It discussed how the dutch invest heavily in recreational soccer, on the assumption that if they teach everyone, a handful of kids will fall in love with the sport and develop excellence in it.)

I don't really take issue with any of your notes. But note I didn't say club soccer is rationally integrated....it's not....if we were setting up a system from scratch that made sense to train kids for college soccer it wouldn't look like this and indeed it would hamper us even more with pro development than we are now....if it were rationally integrated then it would be set up in the schools. No, my point was that the economic incentives set up by our collegiate system have created the incentives for the creation of club soccer-- it's why they can earn a living that way.

Here is the link for the Ajax article but it is discussing their Academy system. The Euros support rec so 1) they can have fans, and 2) in the off chance that a prodigy can be spotted that might make the hop onto the Academy system. The article is a bit old now....for example at the time Latin America was shifting to an Academy system as well....they aren't fully there but they aren't anymore in the days of rec street soccer...the days of Pele coming in from the barrio are over....my father in fact played extensive rec soccer in Latin America and actually took a run at a pro team ...we assumed he would therefore know how to coach our sons and when he raised the issue of soccer, that he would be their coach...turned out he didn't know as much as both he and I thought and that idea didn't work out to well...having pursued my basic licenses I know more than he does, and I still find I have very much left to learn. Our DA system remember also was specifically made to emulate the European model....it was supposed to be exclusive and the original idea when it was contemplated was that they would be linked to MLS teams as in Europe (so that for SoCal our one DA would be the Galaxy)...hasn't really worked out that way, as some in this forum predicted.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html

And yes the Europeans are investing more in educating their players but not because they want them to be smarter players....it's to appease the concerns of middle class parents since they are struggling to attract top talent, coupled with their falling birthrates...parents are demanding a safety net if the kids are cut. To look at a system that is truly a mess, and a hybrid between the US and the Euro system, look at the UK...and they wonder why British soccer has struggled recently (not to mention the competition from rugby and ck).
 
Personally, I'd go even further and argue that the main driver of the American club soccer environment was that DOCs, coaches, and tournament directors recognized an opportunity to earn a decent living. Part of how they did so was using college admission/scholarships as a lure.
So true. And this culture they fostered continues to corrupt almost all of the so-called academies.
 
At pro clubs, almost anywhere in the world these days, young players will also run into players with totally different backgrounds, players who bring a variety of styles and approaches to the sport.

The gap between the pro scene, with its harsh competition, its varied influences, its non-stop devotion to the sport is planets away from the lotus fields of college soccer. If college soccer has slowly edged away from the all-white, suburban athlete image that it carried into the 21st century, it has not moved nearly far enough.

In theory -- on paper, that is -- there is plenty to be said for the more humanist approach of college soccer. But in competition with the worldwide pro approach to the business of producing star soccer players, it’s a sure-fire loser.

https://www.socceramerica.com/article/55409/college-soccer-simply-unreal.html

This article was written in 2013, last August the soccer coaches promoted a new system. No movement on this yet but at least the coaches are on board.

https://www.nscaa.com/web/News/Arti...e_Men_Propose_Academic_Year_Season_Model.aspx
 
Surprised clubs haven't extended letting players "pay to play" until their mid 20s.
Surely if they can sell parents in a college scholarship, they can sell them on a semi-pro pay to play with the chance to going pro promise. The league could exist for competition before/after the college season is done.
 
It's a business and clearly there's some abuse on the Coaching and Academies side making empty promises. However, as a parent you need to be realistic and decide how good is your son/daughter? If they are crushing everyone else all the way through the academy, then they have a good chance at scholarships or going pro. If they are just above average, forget about it. Colleges are recruiting kids from Europe, Mexico, and other parts of the world. Bottom line, your child needs to be unstoppable and way above the rest to have a high success rate to make it. With girls there might be more flexibility in terms of their skills ranking. With boys, not at all!!!
 
Bottom line, your child needs to be unstoppable and way above the rest to have a high success rate to make it. With girls there might be more flexibility in terms of their skills ranking. With boys, not at all!!!
I can dig it.

Based on skill boys and girls are apples and oranges although majority of DD parents can't tell the difference.
 


Yup, it's not close :) What it did show is how poor most women defenders are! Marta is like no one else we've seen in the women's game for the most part. That's why it seems like it's comparable. The speed at which Neymar does his dribbling skills is blows my mind. When he's not rolling around for getting hit by a feather, he's sure fun to watch!
 
I can dig it.

Based on skill boys and girls are apples and oranges although majority of DD parents can't tell the difference.
Not just on skills, but on every level, ability to communicate, to be empathetic, to have an understanding on what is important in life. Boys and girls are definitely apples and oranges apart. Just read recently how males commit 95% of all murders, females 1%, 4% unknown, although statistically probably most of the 4% are also males. In addition most violent crimes are committed by males. Like you said apples and oranges.
 


Yup, it's not close :) What it did show is how poor most women defenders are! Marta is like no one else we've seen in the women's game for the most part. That's why it seems like it's comparable. The speed at which Neymar does his dribbling skills is blows my mind. When he's not rolling around for getting hit by a feather, he's sure fun to watch!
As I posted, don't confuse a mans superior athleticism which includes their speed which includes being able to dribble the ball faster than a women. If Marta was as athletic as Neymar I'm sure she could do things similar.
 
Sorry bud not even close.
Again, don't confuse a man's athletic ability with being more skilled. Watching men cut, juke, run faster, and kicking harder only makes them look more skilled on the ball. Women are not as athletic, thus perform at a slower pace and makes them look like they aren't as skilled.
 
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