West Coast Classic 2017-Refs

[Sheriff Joe]

I want to make this post regarding the West Coast Classic Tournament this weekend (August 12-13). First off, both our first and second games of the tournament we had the same ref. The problem was when our team tried to communicate with him about calls or how much time was left, he was unable to answer in English. The next problem was with the game we had today. Ref blew her whistle every second so there was no flow to the game and gave out 5 yellow cards.

Why the hell would you expect someone hired to ref a game in the USA, to speak the language of said country?
WTF is wrong with you?
You are obviously a Trump loving racist.

 

[Dr. Richard Hurtz]

Handing out yellows and reds serve a purpose. It teaches the kids to play more cautiously so you won't miss the next game because of suspensions. I was a hacker too when I was a boy.. then I grew up and surrounded myself with better players and learned more control where there wasn't a need to foul and kick at ankles from behind. Refs aren't needed at this age. I don't keep score. I just want my sons development. Good luck to you Arty Smarty Pants

 

[coachrefparent]

Handing out yellows and reds serve a purpose. It teaches the kids to play more cautiously so you won't miss the next game because of suspensions. I was a hacker too when I was a boy.. then I grew up and surrounded myself with better players and learned more control where there wasn't a need to foul and kick at ankles from behind. Refs aren't needed at this age. I don't keep score. I just want my sons development. Good luck to you Arty Smarty Pants

I see no one arguing that yellows and reds shouldn't be shown when appropriate. You want them shown "more" but then argue referees are not needed at this age ???

All of the ref bashing posts are the same: claims that the refs sucked with no one able to verify if it is true=worthless arguments.

Last weekend as a spectator I saw multiple parents and coaches yell and scream and misstate the laws. Even when confronted that these weren't the rules, they just doubled down and looked and sounded more foolish. BUT THEY ALL 100% KNEW THE REF BLEW THE CALL, AND THEY WERE 100% WRONG. I've found thst the most vocal, are the most ignorant.

Yes refs missed some calls, as they always do. Without video, discussion here about the correctness (or not) of any call is worthless and circuitous.

Does your "Richard Hurt" because your kid flops a lot?

 

[Sons of Pitches]

Handing out yellows and reds serve a purpose. It teaches the kids to play more cautiously so you won't miss the next game because of suspensions. I was a hacker too when I was a boy.. then I grew up and surrounded myself with better players and learned more control where there wasn't a need to foul and kick at ankles from behind. Refs aren't needed at this age. I don't keep score. I just want my sons development. Good luck to you Arty Smarty Pants

"then i grew up" - with a name like Dick Hurtz - I don't think you ever grew up

 

[bababooey]

So a question....

When is it ok to be screaming, yelling totally biased fan? - I don't think we ever need to be totally biased. We are all naturally biased, but why can't we appreciate that the other team/players are playing well? Sure, I want my dd's team to win and play well, but I don't need to act like a lunatic from the sideline for that to happen.

While I agree with most of your post (except 1 - it does matter and should not be as bad as it is in most games), when we see the sideline at college football or basketball games, its not exactly supportive or sporting behavior toward the opponents or even our own players, when they make mistakes. The behavior is amplified in pro games. - very true, but at these college or pro games rarely is the "crazy" fan/parent two feet from the touch line. Ideally all parents should be far enough away from the field that the players and referees can only hear "noise" versus actual words/statements.

These players are all "children" of some parents and at what point do we hold players more accountable for their own performance and conduct on the field? - players should ALWAYS be accountable for their actions. I am not absolving them from this responsibility. In my time at the fields, I have seen only a few examples where the player's conduct was deplorable. However, you can witness deplorable behavior by parents at nearly every game.

Since you've mentioned your kid is U15, it is considered "olders" now and do we flip the switch? - I guess a flip does switch at some point. When my dd was U8, I sat on the sidelines whining over every missed call or missed foul. Now that she is older (and I am more mature about these issues), it does not bother me nearly as much.

Assuming that we're all talking about competitive sports and not rec, part of the player development is learning to win, lose, handle criticism and complements, unfair/bad calls and most of all deal with crazy (parents) fans on the side line. I've seen players talk back to other team's parents using 4 letter words and racial slurs.... - and this is wrong too. Players should focus on the game, their teammates, their opponents, their coach and the referees. Completely ignore the parents. I used to make comments to my dd during games and then she learned to tune me out and ignore me. Who would have figured an 8, 9 or 10 year old would learn faster than her old man?

Obviously I'm being rhetorical but don't make it sound like its all parents, coaches and ref's that turn a game into a sour situation. Players have lot to do with it... - there are wonderful parents, coaches and referees out there no doubt. It only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch.

 

[Art]

The pathetic nature of his user name along with the cringy "arty smarty pants" phrase. This one poster contradicts himself crazily. Says no refs but wants cards...was a hacker then complains about his son being hacked. Whats funny is that he talks about what a true soccer player is hahaha, doesnt even know the game well enough to make that claim.

 

[chefsilver]

We played West Coast last weekend my only concern with any tournament is the CR and AR`s should be able to jog. We had a CR call a foul in the box from 35-40 yards out because she was unable to jog at any point durning the game. This is know disrespect to any ref or over weight person, but she was over weight and had two knee braces on. The CR never left the center circle in are game, DD is U13.

 

[Justafan]

Why the hell would you expect someone hired to ref a game in the USA, to speak the language of said country?
WTF is wrong with you?
You are obviously a Trump loving racist.

All substance here Joe. Labels are weak. Still, no one has answered the question whether the coach had ANY problem whatsoever communicating with the ref. I would bet ALL refs speak enough English to communicate the essentials with a coach, even though it is not required.

If you read between the lines of ibahn's post, it appears he/she was upset at some type of call, asked the ref for an explanation, and didn't get one. From there, ibahn assumes the ref's failure to respond was because the ref did not speak English. If this is not what happened, please explain. No one has.

Nonetheless, there is some ambiguity in ibahn's post when he/she indicates that the ref didn't answer in English. So did the ref understand the question in English, but chose to answer in another language? Again, no explanation.

You know there is a saying in law, when you have the facts, pound the facts; when you have the law, pound the law; when you have none, pound the table. Sounds like a lot of table pounding here.

 

[MWN]

We played West Coast last weekend my only concern with any tournament is the CR and AR`s should be able to jog. We had a CR call a foul in the box from 35-40 yards out because she was unable to jog at any point during the game. This is know disrespect to any ref or over weight person, but she was over weight and had two knee braces on. The CR never left the center circle in are game, DD is U13.

I'll mirror the comments of @Art a page or two back, which is that there is a lack of qualified referees in Cal South willing to do "competitive" soccer games. The vast majority will only work recreational soccer games and are Grade 9 and Grade 8 youth. The Grade 8-5 and emeritus referees that belong to Referee Associations is only a handful of the approximate 48k referees in the system.

While a Grade 8 can be a center and many do center the typical youth referee (under 17) do not. That leaves only the adult Grade 8's and the Grade 7-5's to center these higher level games.

For us old guys, I'm good for 1 game at high motor (for me running about 2-3 miles during an olders game). The second game I'm jogging and not as close to the action, but I'm there. The 3rd game I'm doing much more walking ... my feet are killing me and strategic positioning. The 4th game I'm in traction.

The young guys can do 3-4 games without losing a beat.

For this reason, I choose not make myself available for the olders and like the uLittles (U12 and below), smaller fields, less running, crazy ass parents, etc. I leave the olders to the fitter crowd, but inevitably my assignor is pleading and begging for somebody with "center" experience to take an older game or two during XYZ tournament.

This last weekend there were 9 tournaments in SoCal. The referee pool was stretched with assignors looking for whoever they could.

 

[SoccerFan4Life]

The problem will get worse as the older refs retire. I dont see millenials wanting to earn a few bucks a game and deal with all the heckling from parents that called the wrong play on a U-little tournament that means nothing to the soccer world outside of the 20 parents yelling at the ref.

Guys, it's youth soccer, let's put things into perspective. Refs will make wrong calls at all levels of soccer. Personally I think that the parent that yells the most should automatically become a sideline ref for their next game.

 

[coachrefparent]

The problem will get worse as the older refs retire. I dont see millenials wanting to earn a few bucks a game and deal with all the heckling from parents that called the wrong play on a U-little tournament that means nothing to the soccer world outside of the 20 parents yelling at the ref.

Guys, it's youth soccer, let's put things into perspective. Refs will make wrong calls at all levels of soccer. Personally I think that the parent that yells the most should automatically become a sideline ref for their next game.

$20 an hour is pretty good pay for a high-schooler. Can't get that anywhere else. Many competitive players are realizing this and signing up. But its true that you have to learn how to tune out the crazies, and need support from older referees to get comfortable.

 

[Dr. Richard Hurtz]

You know what?? You all are right. I'm not even on the right forum. What the hell is west coast tournament? This must have something to do with coast soccer league.. my bad. I'm use to tournaments like Generation Adidas. I apologize. Let me go back to the Development academy forum. But thanks for letting me reminisce those Cal South days haha. Good luck

 

[Art]

$20 an hour is pretty good pay for a high-schooler. Can't get that anywhere else. Many competitive players are realizing this and signing up. But its true that you have to learn how to tune out the crazies, and need support from older referees to get comfortable.

I'm 21 and a millenial as soccerfan4life puts it. The pay is competitive and even more at times than the 20 per hour coachrefparent mentioned.

However the bigger issue here is the older refs retiring and not enough of a pool left. That could be accounted for by having games scheduled towards evenings at times, because some could do more than 5 games and would fit some others schedules better..but thats a plan B.

What Calsouth and USSf needs to do is set up a strategic plan for retaining and gaining new referees much like how they develop plans for developing youth soccer yada yada. There is plenty of youth taking this up, but not all are cut out to be a ref for various factors that have been mentioned. It takes patience, a good attention span/focus, and most importantly committment! You have to do it consistently and take a liking to it. Do any of your sons and daughters play soccer and DONT like it? I hope not.

Out of all those that are registered today there are about 20-30% that are not active and wont do any games, that would cut out toughly 1/3rd of the referee pool.

I would suggest plan B/C would be to eliminate the ban on having a 2 man/dual system for a game. If it works out fine for a highschool game it should work well enough for most games at club level. Better pay with it, more focus involved. If you have 2 relatively average referees, you could have them do 5 games with just a lil sweat. But we know that will ruffle a few feathers with the calsouth soccer gods!

 

[Sons of Pitches]

You know what?? You all are right. I'm not even on the right forum. What the hell is west coast tournament? This must have something to do with coast soccer league.. my bad. I'm use to tournaments like Generation Adidas. I apologize. Let me go back to the Development academy forum. But thanks for letting me reminisce those Cal South days haha. Good luck

Think you should change your screen name to Butt Hurtz

 

[Sheriff Joe]

All substance here Joe. Labels are weak. Still, no one has answered the question whether the coach had ANY problem whatsoever communicating with the ref. I would bet ALL refs speak enough English to communicate the essentials with a coach, even though it is not required.

If you read between the lines of ibahn's post, it appears he/she was upset at some type of call, asked the ref for an explanation, and didn't get one. From there, ibahn assumes the ref's failure to respond was because the ref did not speak English. If this is not what happened, please explain. No one has.

Nonetheless, there is some ambiguity in ibahn's post when he/she indicates that the ref didn't answer in English. So did the ref understand the question in English, but chose to answer in another language? Again, no explanation.

You know there is a saying in law, when you have the facts, pound the facts; when you have the law, pound the law; when you have none, pound the table. Sounds like a lot of table pounding here.

You are probably right.

 

[outside!]

I would suggest plan B/C would be to eliminate the ban on having a 2 man/dual system for a game. If it works out fine for a highschool game it should work well enough for most games at club level. Better pay with it, more focus involved. If you have 2 relatively average referees, you could have them do 5 games with just a lil sweat. But we know that will ruffle a few feathers with the calsouth soccer gods!

I am not a fan of the two referee system and do not believe it works well in the high school game. I do not want to see it in the club game. I do agree that the organizations that oversee youth soccer should have a plan to train and retain referees.

 

[Art]

I am not a fan of the two referee system and do not believe it works well in the high school game. I do not want to see it in the club game. I do agree that the organizations that oversee youth soccer should have a plan to train and retain referees.

I see your into the whole FIFA thing for the youth level..., if its implementation is correct then there would be no conplaints. Reason why you have a oppositon is because you dont see it implemented correctly, but here we have 3 man system DSC and it still has flaws and issues because of certain factors. Nothings perfect. 2 man system just helps having a greater pool of refs available for games.

 

[Surfref]

$20 an hour is pretty good pay for a high-schooler. Can't get that anywhere else. Many competitive players are realizing this and signing up. But its true that you have to learn how to tune out the crazies, and need support from older referees to get comfortable.

My DD has seven 60 minutes game this weekend and will come home with $240 after 6 hours of work. That is an average $34 an hour. Much easier and better money than the $13 an hour job she was working and she gets some exercise. Not bad money for a full time soccer playing college student.

 

[Surfref]

I would suggest plan B/C would be to eliminate the ban on having a 2 man/dual system for a game. If it works out fine for a highschool game it should work well enough for most games at club level. Better pay with it, more focus involved. If you have 2 relatively average referees, you could have them do 5 games with just a lil sweat. But we know that will ruffle a few feathers with the calsouth soccer gods!

I like the dual referee idea. It would work really well for the 7v7 and 9v9 games. Definitely no dual system in the 11v11 games. HS games are no where near as fast or competitive as club games.

 

[Art]

My DD has seven 60 minutes game this weekend and will come home with $240 after 6 hours of work. That is an average $34 an hour. Much easier and better money than the $13 an hour job she was working and she gets some exercise. Not bad money for a full time soccer playing college student.

The pay rate in your area is way better than in Los Angeles region or even tourneys at corona and such...tournaments are roughly 1.30 a minute here, with 3 man system of course...so Idk if our associations are cheaping out or what..do you know your fee schedule per minute?