VAR or Field referees?

Eagle33

GOLD
Is it only me or it has been a pain to watch Women's WC games?
Way too many referee decisions on the field overruled by VAR and long stoppages for them to make their mind up.
Somehow at Men's WC in Russia, VAR worked great.
So is it quality of referees on the field that need second look on almost every call or VAR is too involved?
My observation was that AR's not flagging obvious offside until goal has been scored or something else happens. Why is that? so VAR can make a final call?
 
VAR is getting it right. What's the problem? No one ever knows how long the referee will let the game go anyway.
 

watfly

GOLD
Is it only me or it has been a pain to watch Women's WC games?
Way too many referee decisions on the field overruled by VAR and long stoppages for them to make their mind up.
Somehow at Men's WC in Russia, VAR worked great.
So is it quality of referees on the field that need second look on almost every call or VAR is too involved?
My observation was that AR's not flagging obvious offside until goal has been scored or something else happens. Why is that? so VAR can make a final call?
It's not just you, the VAR/reffing has tainted the WWC particularly in terms of the flow of the game. Its sucked the life out of the spirit and spontaneity of goal scoring. I almost feel like I'm watching the NFL. I think its due to a number of factors, but I personally believe its primarily FIFA mismanagement.
 
I'm surprised that FIFA/FOX/ETC haven't found a way to capitalize on the long stoppages and sold commercials during VAR reviews.
 
It's not just you, the VAR/reffing has tainted the WWC particularly in terms of the flow of the game. Its sucked the life out of the spirit and spontaneity of goal scoring. I almost feel like I'm watching the NFL. I think its due to a number of factors, but I personally believe its primarily FIFA mismanagement.
Tainted? Would you prefer they let the mistakes that everyone can see on the broadcast replays go through unchallenged?
 
Don't really buy the argument the problem is the women referees. Both things can be simultaneously true: 1) the women referees are less experienced in dealing with VAR (and less experienced in general) but also 2) the new rules plus the instructions by FIFA for strict enforcement for both the new rules and VAR and reeking havoc. The Premier League has already announced it won't be using VAR to review the goalkeeper line, and the IFAB has even acknowledged they aren't working by stepping down from the carding requirement at the WWC. If VAR is going to be strictly used to review everything it's going to slow things down. The review of penalties, for example, might involve a VAR review of the penalty, a VAR review of infractions on the penalty, and if retaken a VAR review of the retake...that's 3 VAR reviews in the course of a few minutes.
 
Don't really buy the argument the problem is the women referees. Both things can be simultaneously true: 1) the women referees are less experienced in dealing with VAR (and less experienced in general) but also 2) the new rules plus the instructions by FIFA for strict enforcement for both the new rules and VAR and reeking havoc. The Premier League has already announced it won't be using VAR to review the goalkeeper line, and the IFAB has even acknowledged they aren't working by stepping down from the carding requirement at the WWC. If VAR is going to be strictly used to review everything it's going to slow things down. The review of penalties, for example, might involve a VAR review of the penalty, a VAR review of infractions on the penalty, and if retaken a VAR review of the retake...that's 3 VAR reviews in the course of a few minutes.
and..already some penalty kicks have been scrubbed because VAR revealed there was a player offside at the time of the foul.
 

Art

SILVER ELITE
Is it only me or it has been a pain to watch Women's WC games?
Way too many referee decisions on the field overruled by VAR and long stoppages for them to make their mind up.
Somehow at Men's WC in Russia, VAR worked great.
So is it quality of referees on the field that need second look on almost every call or VAR is too involved?
My observation was that AR's not flagging obvious offside until goal has been scored or something else happens. Why is that? so VAR can make a final call?
The thing is, the women's game isn't as high quality as the men's usually. Key term usually. This gets amplified when the referees are not up to par. I have seen some very cringe refereeing at this world cup which has led me to question the FIFA badges they're giving out...

The more than obvious offside call needs to be called earlier. If you're in doubt keep the flag down then VAR will evaluate it. However, someone in the world of soccer has given this outrageous directive to keep the flag down for every call that is within 40 yards of the goal o_O. It's more problem causing than anything else, why cause controversy??

Some things that VAR can't control is referee judgement. Some soft calls that might award penalties can't be overturned because if it can be justified within the laws of the game, it won't be overturned. An example would be the penalty given to the USA for a kick, although there was contact it was very soft and the player seemed to fall only after the ball got a few feet away...

Another example to point out is the penalty against Japan... Her hands were not in an extended position and the defender/captain actually pulled her hands inward to her body..in the new laws of the game that should not have been awarded.

So it's coming down to the interpretation of the laws and some of the refereeing has been poor in this world cup from a technical point of view. Also, the ARs don't seem as confident as you would see on the men's side.
 
Another example to point out is the penalty against Japan... Her hands were not in an extended position and the defender/captain actually pulled her hands inward to her body..in the new laws of the game that should not have been awarded.

So it's coming down to the interpretation of the laws and some of the refereeing has been poor in this world cup from a technical point of view. Also, the ARs don't seem as confident as you would see on the men's side.
Under the new laws it was properly awarded as a penalty because her hands were out to her side: "unnaturally bigger". It's irrelevant whether she pulled her hands inward to her body as the new laws do not allow this to be taken into account. "Unnaturally bigger" is not defined and many of indicated that would be a problem, but it seems the refs are following guidance that came out of discussion of the new rule. Originally, the words used in the deliberations was anything outside "of natural silhouette" but the traditionalists objected that would mean defenders in the box had to run around with their hands behind their back. The revisionist answer to that was "good", hence the "unnaturally bigger" compromise. Correct call under the rule (see below). Hate the rule, not the ref.

https://deadspin.com/an-unlucky-handball-sends-japan-out-of-the-world-cup-1835852878
 

Eagle33

GOLD
Under the new laws it was properly awarded as a penalty because her hands were out to her side: "unnaturally bigger". It's irrelevant whether she pulled her hands inward to her body as the new laws do not allow this to be taken into account. "Unnaturally bigger" is not defined and many of indicated that would be a problem, but it seems the refs are following guidance that came out of discussion of the new rule. Originally, the words used in the deliberations was anything outside "of natural silhouette" but the traditionalists objected that would mean defenders in the box had to run around with their hands behind their back. The revisionist answer to that was "good", hence the "unnaturally bigger" compromise. Correct call under the rule (see below). Hate the rule, not the ref.

https://deadspin.com/an-unlucky-handball-sends-japan-out-of-the-world-cup-1835852878
There is nothing more unnatural than a defender playing in the box with his/her hands behind his/her back.
 
Under the new laws it was properly awarded as a penalty because her hands were out to her side: "unnaturally bigger". It's irrelevant whether she pulled her hands inward to her body as the new laws do not allow this to be taken into account. "Unnaturally bigger" is not defined and many of indicated that would be a problem, but it seems the refs are following guidance that came out of discussion of the new rule. Originally, the words used in the deliberations was anything outside "of natural silhouette" but the traditionalists objected that would mean defenders in the box had to run around with their hands behind their back. The revisionist answer to that was "good", hence the "unnaturally bigger" compromise. Correct call under the rule (see below). Hate the rule, not the ref.

https://deadspin.com/an-unlucky-handball-sends-japan-out-of-the-world-cup-1835852878
FIFA/IFAB occasionally like to redefine words to minimize their public embarrassment. The latest word under attack is "unnaturally".
 
OK, after the controversial no-review at the SuperCup I don't see how at this point they either don't revise a) the VAR rules regarding penalty kicks and/or b) the rules applied to goalkeepers on the penalty kicks. Adrian was off his line. It was clear and obvious. The rules say the kick should have been retaken.

It's an easy fix...just allow the goalkeeper off the line as soon as the whistle is blown. It will also minimize the impact of the handball rule by reducing the percentages of penalties converted.
 
OK, after the controversial no-review at the SuperCup I don't see how at this point they either don't revise a) the VAR rules regarding penalty kicks and/or b) the rules applied to goalkeepers on the penalty kicks. Adrian was off his line. It was clear and obvious. The rules say the kick should have been retaken.

It's an easy fix...just allow the goalkeeper off the line as soon as the whistle is blown. It will also minimize the impact of the handball rule by reducing the percentages of penalties converted.
Here's what will happen during that rule, goal keepers will charge the penalty spot once the whistleis blown, knowing every .1 second closes off a significant portion of the ball. kickers will no longer do run ups, which means some PK's will be taken so the penalty taker just taps thte ball to the side and 1 degree forward and a teammate blasts it around the keeper charging the spot into an empty net. It will all look a lttile silly, and then you will have to worry about encroaching by the surrounding players, when do they leave the line.
 
Here's what will happen during that rule, goal keepers will charge the penalty spot once the whistleis blown, knowing every .1 second closes off a significant portion of the ball. .
. Maybe. But the thing about goalkeepers is they don’t want to be in no mans land where the angle isn’t significantly reduced but reaction time is compromised. Unless they are on top of the ball not sure they’d make that choice. Coming off the line isn’t about reducing the angle but about propelling themselves forward for the dive. And if it drives down stuttering towards the ball by strikers and the converted percentages better. But fair point and it would have to be play tested

You might also like the alternatives being proposed less: no penalties at all (at least outside of game deciding penalty shoot outs..free kicks instead even inside the box except for dogso), move the spot back (which would require reworking countless pitches around the world), allow goalkeepers to stand behind the line (which fixes the technical problem but not the var problem), or end var review of pks (which fixes the var problem but not the technical problem which predates var and which the rule fix was intended to address). One thing though is they will and must do something, and not everyone will by happy with the fix, because the new handball rule isn’t going away and this aspect of the game is broken
 
IFAB has now come back and is insisting that UEFA, Bundesliga and Premier must use VAR to review the goalkeeper infractions. The Premier League has responded they don't have any current plans to change VAR protocols (essentially continuing their no VAR on goalkeeper penalty infringement policy). Looks like this is slowly coming to a head.
 
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