Vaccine

My bad, I assumed long term meant long term. You win!
BTW if it was the most researched substance on the planet as he alleges, then why haven't we used it to cure cancer, heart disease, the two top killers in the U.S.. Dad just spouts from his trance like whirling.
 
Has there *ever* been a vaccine with long term negative side effects which were not known after the first 3-4 months? It's been 16 months since clinical trials started. There is not a hidden side effect.

The vaccine isn't an unknown. It is one of the most researched substances on the planet.

It isn't so much that they are your betters. But they are better informed than you.

Either take the time to get informed, or stop pretending to understand things which you do not.
I really do respect your consistency but you live in a black/white world. You leave little to nuance. No bigee, just your personality.

Vaccines generally take much longer to develop, 2-10 yrs for many. These vaccines are outliers. I believe they are safe since the science behind the vaccines are sound. There have been side effects and there have been deaths associated with the application of the vaccine. you can research on your own, I'm not trying to convince you of anything, you've planted your flag.

The benefit of the vaccine outweighs the risk for many. For some (not a small number), the benefit doesn't outweight the risk. Some of the most hardened "anti-vaxxers" are medical professionals who are naturally curious and skeptical. And you are right, there aren't hidden side effects, they are right in front of us. I've never seen a vaccine cause such adverse side effects as the MRNA vaccines, causing patients to present severe symptoms without testing postive. It's anectodal for sure, but happens more than you think. Those are still side effects. Even newsweek tried to disprove that the vaccines have caused death and couldn't. VAERS is an open system but even with that, it can't be 100% proven that vaccines didn't cause death. You can also say that someone died with the vaccine and not from the vaccine...sound familiar?
 
Mr. Makary is a gastrointestinal surgeon.

He's the one to visit if you give up on the diet and decide to have the stomach stapling surgery.

Which, given your thumbnail image, you might want to consider....
LOL! Seriously, fat shaming? so schoolgirl of you. You win again!
 
BTW if it was the most researched substance on the planet as he alleges, then why haven't we used it to cure cancer, heart disease, the two top killers in the U.S.. Dad just spouts from his trance like whirling.
But it gets better, "they" can't even figure out why natural immunity out performs vaccine immunity, by a long shot.. You would have thought this would have been studied concurrently. For many, vaccination is the way to go, also for many, it's not the way to go if you've already caught the big 19.

The government wanting to vaccinate those already infected, older or immnocompromised should make everyone's ears perk up.
 

Margery Smelkinson, Ph.D.
@MSmelkinsonPhD


Paper suggests 1/3 kids had alpha. Then a lot more got delta. Think of all the quarantines and school closures that could be avoided if we counted these kids as immune. We are not doing anyone any favors by continuing to ignore natural immunity.



Emergence of SARS-CoV-2 Alpha (B.1.1.7) variant, infection rates, antibody seroconversion and seroprevalence rates in secondary school students and staff: Active prospective surveillance, December 2020 to March 2021, England
 
LOL! Seriously, fat shaming? so schoolgirl of you. You win again!
Lighten up. He probably looks no more like his picture than you look like yours. Welcome to the internet. Images are misleading here.

The point is that the best spokesman for his position is a surgeon. Not a virologist, epidemiologist, or vaccine researcher. A surgeon. Not even remotely qualified to interpret the data.
 
But it gets better, "they" can't even figure out why natural immunity out performs vaccine immunity, by a long shot.. You would have thought this would have been studied concurrently. For many, vaccination is the way to go, also for many, it's not the way to go if you've already caught the big 19.

The government wanting to vaccinate those already infected, older or immnocompromised should make everyone's ears perk up.
Funny how Dad goes after the Surgeon rather than the data that the surgeon links where virologist, epidemiologist, or vaccine researchers do interpret the data that is referenced in the post. Poor guy. He's getting peppered with facts that he is ill qualified to refute since he is not a virologist, epidemiologist, or vaccine researcher himself.
 
But it gets better, "they" can't even figure out why natural immunity out performs vaccine immunity, by a long shot.. You would have thought this would have been studied concurrently. For many, vaccination is the way to go, also for many, it's not the way to go if you've already caught the big 19.

The government wanting to vaccinate those already infected, older or immnocompromised should make everyone's ears perk up.
Maybe "they" can't figure out the cause because it isn't actually true.

Mr. Makary provides no link for his "27 times" claim.

He does link to a CDC study. The study says that vaccination after an infection improves your immunity. (Natural + vax is better than natural alone.)

Makary misreads this to mean natural immunity is better than vaccinated.

You have a surgeon who is having trouble reading even a basic scientific paper. Do you have anyone qualified?
 
Maybe "they" can't figure out the cause because it isn't actually true.

Mr. Makary provides no link for his "27 times" claim.

He does link to a CDC study. The study says that vaccination after an infection improves your immunity. (Natural + vax is better than natural alone.)

Makary misreads this to mean natural immunity is better than vaccinated.

You have a surgeon who is having trouble reading even a basic scientific paper. Do you have anyone qualified?
You didn't read the Wall Street article. No wonder you missed the link.
 
Maybe "they" can't figure out the cause because it isn't actually true.

Mr. Makary provides no link for his "27 times" claim.

He does link to a CDC study. The study says that vaccination after an infection improves your immunity. (Natural + vax is better than natural alone.)

Makary misreads this to mean natural immunity is better than vaccinated.

You have a surgeon who is having trouble reading even a basic scientific paper. Do you have anyone qualified?
Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections
 
Results
Overall, 673,676 MHS members 16 years and older were eligible for the study group of fully vaccinated SARS-CoV-2-naïve individuals; 62,883 were eligible for the study group of unvaccinated previously infected individuals and 42,099 individuals were eligible for the study group of previously infected and single-dose vaccinees.

Model 1 – previously infected vs. vaccinated individuals, with matching for time of first event
In model 1, we matched 16,215 persons in each group. Overall, demographic characteristics were similar between the groups, with some differences in their comorbidity profile (Table 1a).
Table 1a.

Table 1b.

During the follow-up period, 257 cases of SARS-CoV-2 infection were recorded, of which 238 occurred in the vaccinated group (breakthrough infections) and 19 in the previously infected group (reinfections). After adjusting for comorbidities, we found a statistically significant 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection as opposed to reinfection (P<0.001). Apart from age ≥60 years, there was no statistical evidence that any of the assessed comorbidities significantly affected the risk of an infection during the follow-up period (Table 2a). As for symptomatic SARS-COV-2 infections during the follow-up period, 199 cases were recorded, 191 of which were in the vaccinated group and 8 in the previously infected group. Symptoms for all analyses were recorded in the central database within 5 days of the positive RT-PCR test for 90% of the patients, and included chiefly fever, cough, breathing difficulties, diarrhea, loss of taste or smell, myalgia, weakness, headache and sore throat. After adjusting for comorbidities, we found a 27.02-fold risk (95% CI, 12.7 to 57.5) for symptomatic breakthrough infection as opposed to symptomatic reinfection (P<0.001) (Table 2b). None of the covariates were significant, except for age ≥60 years.

Nine cases of COVID-19-related hospitalizations were recorded, 8 of which were in the vaccinated group and 1 in the previously infected group (Table S1). No COVID-19-related deaths were recorded in our cohorts.
 
That obesity is an important only risk factor for poor COVID outcomes was known early in the epidemic. Nevertheless, we adopted lockdowns which caused more obesity. The worse COVID results in turn increased demand for lockdown...

Jay Bhattacharya
Professor Stanford School of Medicine. MD, PhD. Health policy: infectious diseases, COVID, health economics. Scientific freedom
 
Lighten up. He probably looks no more like his picture than you look like yours. Welcome to the internet. Images are misleading here.

The point is that the best spokesman for his position is a surgeon. Not a virologist, epidemiologist, or vaccine researcher. A surgeon. Not even remotely qualified to interpret the data.
I agree, images are misleading here...yours should be an "L"
 
You mean because virologist, epidemiologist, or vaccine researchers see patients? Please continue.
How, exactly, does doing a gastric bypass operation prepare someone to understand medical research papers on coronavirus immunity?

I don’t doubt whether he is qualified to remove colon polyps. I doubt whether he is qualified to write an article on covid immunity.

The medarxiv article itself is interesting. It does not, however, say what Makary claimed it said. ( 1 versus 8 hospitalizations is not the same as “27 times as much protection.” )
 
Listening to the testimony of the gymnasts molested by Nassar should remind us all that the government, particularly bureaucrats, don't have our best interests in mind when it comes to public health. Bureaucrats are only interested in covering their own ass. And when bureaucrats fail, other bureaucrats circle the wagons to protect them. The fact that the Justice Department refuses to prosecute the FBI employees who failed to investigate the abuse is very troubling.
 
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