Things going down at Cal....

KTVU has an investigative piece on the Cal Women's Soccer program. It's NOT good

I expect to see more and more of these types of allegations. Behaviors from those in leadership positions that were acceptable in the past are no longer tolerated.
 
I expect to see more and more of these types of allegations. Behaviors from those in leadership positions that were acceptable in the past are no longer tolerated.
This explains a lot. Like why Cal could never make it past the first round of the NCAA's despite having some of the best recruiting classes in the country. McGuire consistently takes great players and turns them into mediocre teams. Now we know why.
 
I expect to see more and more of these types of allegations. Behaviors from those in leadership positions that were acceptable in the past are no longer tolerated.
Treating little girls and young woman like this is sad. It's just a soccer game and some girls love to just play the game. Some have dreams to play the game and then it all turns into a nightmare.
 
This explains a lot. Like why Cal could never make it past the first round of the NCAA's despite having some of the best recruiting classes in the country. McGuire consistently takes great players and turns them into mediocre teams. Now we know why.

Yeah, I agree. Some will roll their eyes..."kids are too soft these days"...but the reality is that this sort of coaching isn't really effective for athletes that have trained their whole life in a single sport.

There is a hole in the system that should be fixed. Coaches are incentivized to get under performing scholarship athletes to quit so they can recoup the money.
 
Unfortunate. But I think the coaches at Cal have been honest with me about the heartbreak many players experience upon arriving at Cal. For many, it’s the first time they have been told no and are not the star of their team. Riding the bench is a bitter pill to swallow for many kids and parents.

Over the past 6 years I have talked to several Cal “starters” and I have not heard any of the type of complaints mentioned in the article. And a couple of their starters last year definitely had weight problems-not sure if Neil was tactful when raising the issue or not.

I guess I am surprised that folks are unaware of the process and the cutthroat nature of competitive sports. Again, in my limited situation Cal has been honest with me about what to expect upon arrival.

Is this really any different from other major competitive programs? I’ve seen players disappear at Stanford, sexual harassment at UNC, and a sink or swim culture at FSU...IDK is this really news? Seriously?
 
For me it is less about the cutthroat nature and being tough and more about being smart about what makes a player and team successful. Boys/men are pushed to excellence by this approach. Girls/women are driven to success when they have comraderie with their teammates, are supported, pushed in a competitive environment, and are treated with respect with consistent, clear messages about the expectations. My older daughter had three coaches like this - they each took medium of the pack teams and made them into championship programs. Being a bully and demeaning women and tearing them down only makes them emotional and get into their head too much, questioning themselves and feeling inadequate never leads to success. How many of these male coaches have ever taken any training in female psychology to understand what works?
 
Unfortunate. But I think the coaches at Cal have been honest with me about the heartbreak many players experience upon arriving at Cal. For many, it’s the first time they have been told no and are not the star of their team. Riding the bench is a bitter pill to swallow for many kids and parents.

Over the past 6 years I have talked to several Cal “starters” and I have not heard any of the type of complaints mentioned in the article. And a couple of their starters last year definitely had weight problems-not sure if Neil was tactful when raising the issue or not.

I guess I am surprised that folks are unaware of the process and the cutthroat nature of competitive sports. Again, in my limited situation Cal has been honest with me about what to expect upon arrival.

Is this really any different from other major competitive programs? I’ve seen players disappear at Stanford, sexual harassment at UNC, and a sink or swim culture at FSU...IDK is this really news? Seriously?
Interesting perspective. One of the letters was written by a starter. My dd had a coach who was “tough”, but she never felt degraded by that coach. Others on the team did. Because she didn’t have the experience personally didn’t make it less true for others.
While I wouldn’t draw firm conclusions from the article or the letters, this is information to consider and I’m glad it was shared. A college coach can have a big influence on the life of a young person. We parents have the very important job of making sure the people we put our kids under are worthy of that privilege and responsibility.
 
Interesting perspective. One of the letters was written by a starter. My dd had a coach who was “tough”, but she never felt degraded by that coach. Others on the team did. Because she didn’t have the experience personally didn’t make it less true for others.
While I wouldn’t draw firm conclusions from the article or the letters, this is information to consider and I’m glad it was shared. A college coach can have a big influence on the life of a young person. We parents have the very important job of making sure the people we put our kids under are worthy of that privilege and responsibility.
I agree 100%. I guess my point is that I think parents should take a more active role in the process. Question everything and everyone. I have never understood the mentality of leaving young adults on their own to navigate and negotiate their relationship with a very powerful and experienced coach. Whenever and wherever there is a gross inequity of bargaining power you’ll find abuse.
 
Unfortunate. But I think the coaches at Cal have been honest with me about the heartbreak many players experience upon arriving at Cal. For many, it’s the first time they have been told no and are not the star of their team. Riding the bench is a bitter pill to swallow for many kids and parents.

Over the past 6 years I have talked to several Cal “starters” and I have not heard any of the type of complaints mentioned in the article. And a couple of their starters last year definitely had weight problems-not sure if Neil was tactful when raising the issue or not.

I guess I am surprised that folks are unaware of the process and the cutthroat nature of competitive sports. Again, in my limited situation Cal has been honest with me about what to expect upon arrival.

Is this really any different from other major competitive programs? I’ve seen players disappear at Stanford, sexual harassment at UNC, and a sink or swim culture at FSU...IDK is this really news? Seriously?
My reaction is very similar to yours, but my question is, what will come out of this? Does he get let go? Either way, it would seem that if he stays, he'll have to be a lot more careful regarding these tactics with players.
 
For me it is less about the cutthroat nature and being tough and more about being smart about what makes a player and team successful. Boys/men are pushed to excellence by this approach. Girls/women are driven to success when they have comraderie with their teammates, are supported, pushed in a competitive environment, and are treated with respect with consistent, clear messages about the expectations. My older daughter had three coaches like this - they each took medium of the pack teams and made them into championship programs. Being a bully and demeaning women and tearing them down only makes them emotional and get into their head too much, questioning themselves and feeling inadequate never leads to success. How many of these male coaches have ever taken any training in female psychology to understand what works?
I agree that the approach to working with females is different. But, there’s also the part that many of these women are experiencing failure for the first time in their life and the sh*t hurts. This failure is gonna happen for most regardless of the coach.
 
Interesting perspective. One of the letters was written by a starter. My dd had a coach who was “tough”, but she never felt degraded by that coach. Others on the team did. Because she didn’t have the experience personally didn’t make it less true for others.
While I wouldn’t draw firm conclusions from the article or the letters, this is information to consider and I’m glad it was shared. A college coach can have a big influence on the life of a young person. We parents have the very important job of making sure the people we put our kids under are worthy of that privilege and responsibility.

to your point, there's a HUGE difference between being a tough coach (holding players to high expectations) and being an ass of a coach-yelling, cussing, threatening, etc. My daughter has friends and former teammates at Cal and while they like going to school, they did say he was tough to play for and can be belligerent at times. I think that's pretty par for college coaches. it's when the attacks become personal, that's where it crosses the line.
 
My reaction is very similar to yours, but my question is, what will come out of this? Does he get let go? Either way, it would seem that if he stays, he'll have to be a lot more careful regarding these tactics with players.
One thing I bet that comes out of this is no more walk ons at CAL especially if the staff stays on which appears to be the case since this has been going on for over a year with the investigation to any wrong doing. I think CAL have done their investigations for awhile now and decided nothing happened that would consist in a firing. I have no clue what happened but their are always 2 sides to the story. We'll see what happens In the coming weeks or when litigation is over to see if Coach talks and/or supporters of his.
 
One thing I bet that comes out of this is no more walk ons at CAL especially if the staff stays on which appears to be the case since this has been going on for over a year with the investigation to any wrong doing. I think CAL have done their investigations for awhile now and decided nothing happened that would consist in a firing. I have no clue what happened but their are always 2 sides to the story. We'll see what happens In the coming weeks or when litigation is over to see if Coach talks and/or supporters of his.
Agree.
 
I agree that the approach to working with females is different. But, there’s also the part that many of these women are experiencing failure for the first time in their life and the sh*t hurts. This failure is gonna happen for most regardless of the coach.
You think those girls reached 18 without ever having a losing season? Or missing the cut for YNT?

Not likely. Maybe they were the only one to score in the 9-1 loss, but I don’t think it’s their first experience with failure.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the comment that excessive power differentials lead to abusive relationships. True well beyond sports.
 
Without more specifics, I’m not seeing how the incidents identified justify the article’s tone or conclusions. Did he handle some things poorly over the last 10 years? Sure. Does it explain why Cal hasn’t gone far in the tournament? Maybe. Should he have done a better job managing different personalities to avoid a minor mutiny by a few players? Yes. But do his actions constitute abuse? It doesn’t seem close to me unless there’s a lot more than what is described in the piece.

Articles like this are frustrating because they reach severe conclusions of “physical and emotional abuse” based on minimal substance that doesn’t really support the conclusion. In fact, I get the distinct impression the authors reached a conclusion first and then tried to backfill it with “facts” that don’t measure up, so they loaded the article up with a lot of hyperbole.

For example, I didn’t see a single fact identifying what was said to justify the fat shaming allegation. WRT the “physical abuse”, there’s an allegation that one player felt dizzy running sprints, complained, and he brought the trainer. Big deal. And there’s the hyperbolically named “raingate” in which he allegedly overworked players once for disregarding his instruction not to practice in the rain. It doesn’t appear anyone passed out, no one apparently puked, no one needed medical attention and, despite some of their allegations that the AD never did anything about any of their complaints, the article says it did and it found it to be in compliance. This is the centerpiece incident of an article that claims a coach is physically abusive? C’mon.

The term “emotional abuse” is slippery and often in the eye of the beholder, but I don’t think the allegations here get close to that standard. One silly example used to support “emotional abuse” is he punished the entire team for engaging in a hazing incident with 50 hours of community service (good right?), but also included the freshmen. Was that a bad idea? Maybe, although I can see why he would, especially if the article isn’t telling the full story about this hazing/party. But is that emotional abuse? No. Is being moody, dropping an f bomb, yelling during a half time speech, yelling at a player who didn’t seem to be paying attention during film study, and blaming a player for costing them the game poor coaching? Probably some if it. Was it counter-productive as a means to motivate them? Obviously. Was it emotionally abusive? I don’t see it that way especially since that’s the worst the tv station’s year long investigation spanning a 10 year period “uncovered”. Seriously, if that is the worst of his behavior in 10 years and he gets fired over it, pretty much every coach in every sport also needs to go and Greg Baker deserves the electric chair.
 
Without more specifics, I’m not seeing how the incidents identified justify the article’s tone or conclusions. Did he handle some things poorly over the last 10 years? Sure. Does it explain why Cal hasn’t gone far in the tournament? Maybe. Should he have done a better job managing different personalities to avoid a minor mutiny by a few players? Yes. But do his actions constitute abuse? It doesn’t seem close to me unless there’s a lot more than what is described in the piece.

Articles like this are frustrating because they reach severe conclusions of “physical and emotional abuse” based on minimal substance that doesn’t really support the conclusion. In fact, I get the distinct impression the authors reached a conclusion first and then tried to backfill it with “facts” that don’t measure up, so they loaded the article up with a lot of hyperbole.

For example, I didn’t see a single fact identifying what was said to justify the fat shaming allegation. WRT the “physical abuse”, there’s an allegation that one player felt dizzy running sprints, complained, and he brought the trainer. Big deal. And there’s the hyperbolically named “raingate” in which he allegedly overworked players once for disregarding his instruction not to practice in the rain. It doesn’t appear anyone passed out, no one apparently puked, no one needed medical attention and, despite some of their allegations that the AD never did anything about any of their complaints, the article says it did and it found it to be in compliance. This is the centerpiece incident of an article that claims a coach is physically abusive? C’mon.

The term “emotional abuse” is slippery and often in the eye of the beholder, but I don’t think the allegations here get close to that standard. One silly example used to support “emotional abuse” is he punished the entire team for engaging in a hazing incident with 50 hours of community service (good right?), but also included the freshmen. Was that a bad idea? Maybe, although I can see why he would, especially if the article isn’t telling the full story about this hazing/party. But is that emotional abuse? No. Is being moody, dropping an f bomb, yelling during a half time speech, yelling at a player who didn’t seem to be paying attention during film study, and blaming a player for costing them the game poor coaching? Probably some if it. Was it counter-productive as a means to motivate them? Obviously. Was it emotionally abusive? I don’t see it that way especially since that’s the worst the tv station’s year long investigation spanning a 10 year period “uncovered”. Seriously, if that is the worst of his behavior in 10 years and he gets fired over it, pretty much every coach in every sport also needs to go and Greg Baker deserves the electric chair.

The video gave way more detail into the alleged abuses that happened during their time at Cal.
 
The video gave way more detail into the alleged abuses that happened during their time at Cal.

Yeah, I watched it. I also read the attached statements. The portions of the interviews that were shown largely consisted of soundbites of their opinions/conclusions without nearly enough factual support to justify them, coupled with emotional displays to generate sympathy. I don’t say negative things about individual players but since they sought out this publicity, I will go so far as to say I could certainly critique those who were interviewed.
 
What was most disturbing to me was the in office visits that were described as emotional abuse with them leaving in tears feeling demeaned and teammates knowing the result of the in office visit before it occurred. That type of coaching doesn't work at all with this generation and corporations have changed their approach because of it. If that would happen in Corporate America today, law suits would be flying. I have reviewed cases for a lot less. It is still very hard to sue an educational institution.

Another disturbing part of this is that there was never a report issued by the school to any of the players that complained. That goes against civil rights laws and if they did complain to the Office of Civil Rights, that could result in an investigation by the Office of Civil Rights depending on how the complaint was worded.

The oversight is the big glaring problem and is consistent with all education. Education systems are way behind the times.
 
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