SoCal Soccer League -"Wait, the fox will eat the chickens if he is guarding the henhouse ?"

[D8958]

Okay SoCal Soccer League, the time has come, no need to wait any longer. Its clear, you don't know what you're doing.
How people setting policy at this league are so naive is beyond me.

I.
From the email sent today:
"We have had some issues and reports regarding Clubs/Teams abusing the Club Pass Rule. For that reason, we are sending this reminder of the both the written rule and the Spirit of the Rule."

Wait, how is this possible ?
Are you saying SoCal Soccer League is unaware they're are coaches and administrators in Club Youth Soccer that struggle on an ethical and moral level ?

"The issues we are having include, but aren’t limited to, teams Club Passing players from ECNL, GA, DPL, etc. to teams including Flight 3 teams even with teams that have plenty of subs to play the game. Discovery NPL players being Club Passed down to “stack rosters”, the number of Club Passed players written on the Game Report causes the team to exceed the 18-player roster without players being crossed out, some teams believe the integrity of the flight, teams and league are being negatively impacted because it is happening in too frequently."

I read this and thought I am probably gifted with the ability to predict the future. Of course I am not gifted with that ability and I didn't think I was for one second because 80 percent of the people on this board would have explained what was going to happen before the start of the season.

"For the good of the game and to ensure that the integrity of SOCAL is maintained, we will be looking into the reports of abuse of this rule as it is intended as they arise."

For the good of the game, someone needs to shut your league down because this policy set up the following value thread.

The Club is more important than the player. Wins are more important than Development.
When a player from an upper level team comes down from Flight 1 to Flight 3, he is taking time away from a flight 3 player.
I don't care if they are saying it was to cover teams that didn't have enough players, you are a fool to setup a system that can be abused and expect Club Soccer Coaches and Administrators to be the ones in charge of when players are loaned.

If your club can't get enough players to form a team and it has to borrow players, go to a different club.
The club doesn't deserve the team or the money that comes with it if they can't get enough players.

II.
16 League Games, if State Cup included, 20 Total Games at least in a 6 month period

At a time where Referees are very scarce, how does this make sense ?
The ref shortage wasn't a hidden issue, the tournaments held in the summer made the situation very obvious and very clear.

So what mind are you in when you set up an essentially fraudulent League Season product where you schedule a number of games that can't possibly be covered by adequate referee crews ?
One ref for an 11 v 11 game ?

Who wanted a 16 game regular season ? I haven't met anyone yet that wanted it. And you are going to set one up now at a time when referees are as scarce as ever ?

20 total games in 6 months. Timbuck posted this
US Soccer recommends 7v7 players should not play more than 20 games per calendar year.

But somehow SoCal Soccer League came to a different conclusion. I mean they obviously have their own stack of research indicating otherwise, right ?

Looking at their body of work and policy for this fall season I think we know the answer is no, they didn't do any review of existing research nor did they care to.
They can't even predict how their club pass policy would get abused and never had any plan to monitor anything.

The lack of foresight and intelligent decision making is mind boggling.

At this point, what is the purpose and utility of this league ?

They set up a schedule that is against the best interests and health of the players, with so many games that they can't be covered by the supply of referees, with flights that have become meaningless because a Forward from a Flight 1 2010 team comes down to play flight 3 to ensure his team wins by 4 or 5 goals.

 

[lafalafa]

Easy solution don't allow anyone to play down only same level or up.

ECNL players are potentially playing down so don't allow them. ECRL perhaps but only on NPL or Disco teams not eligible for any other flight.

If you're on a flight 1 roster not eligible for flight 2 or 3. Same with disco or the other flights.

Get rid of "writing" any player in on game day. Required all players be entered on the game day roster two days in advance.

Limit to two club pass players per team or something like that.

Otherwise might as well make every game pickup, who ever shows plays and don't keep standing or scores.

 

[Carlsbad7]

ECNL and Socal are different leagues in competition with each other.

Why would Socal exclude ECNL players from playing for their teams?

 

[lafalafa]

ECNL and Socal are different leagues in competition with each other.

Why would Socal exclude ECNL players from playing for their teams?

There not competitors. Both are USclub leagues and not the same level.

Because they are playing down

ECRL perhaps but only on NPL or Disco teams not eligible for any other flight.

 

[Carlsbad7]

Not sure how current this is but explains a lot.

 

[lafalafa]

View attachment 11837

Not sure how current this is but explains a lot.

It's all fictitious but if you go by that just like I said ECRL and NPL are equivalent and ECNL is the next Level up.

Socal Discovery is a NPL so only ECRL players or those at the level should be permitted not ECNL which is the next level up above

NPL's and ECRL have seperate leagues, playoffs, events and they don't compete verse ECNL. Just like Socal Discovery doesn't compete with ECNL so those player shouldn't be permitted because there essential playing Down.

 

[Carlsbad7]

It's all fictitious but if you go by that just like I said ECRL and NPL are equivalent and ECNL is the next Level up.

Socal Discovery is a NPL so only ECRL players or those at the level should be permitted not ECNL which is the next level up above

NPL's and ECRL have seperate leagues, playoffs, events and they don't compete verse ECNL. Just like Socal Discovery doesn't compete with ECNL so those player shouldn't be permitted because there essential playing Down.

If US Club Soccer maintained a database of all players it would be fairly easy to do what you're proposing.

You'd also need an app to maintain player status, eligibility, teams/games registered for, scores, stats, etc, etc, etc.

Im going to go out on a limb and say that none (or very little of what I listed) is happening.

 

[futboldad1]

It's all fictitious but if you go by that just like I said ECRL and NPL are equivalent and ECNL is the next Level up.

Socal Discovery is a NPL so only ECRL players or those at the level should be permitted not ECNL which is the next level up above

NPL's and ECRL have seperate leagues, playoffs, events and they don't compete verse ECNL. Just like Socal Discovery doesn't compete with ECNL so those player shouldn't be permitted because there essential playing Down.

Agree.....playing down that far is BS......a middle of the road SW ECNL team would maul the SW NPL teams and having ECNL players play in the SCDSL/Socal league like that makes a mockery of things and is not fair on the kids who work hard.....

 

[timbuck]

Above it was mentioned that a team from an upper flight is potentially taking away playing time from someone on the roster.

What about the team they are playing against? A team that properly seeded itself in F1, F2, F3 is now playing a game with a few players that are WAAAAYYYY above the level of the team they are playing against.

Players get delated because they got smoked. Parents get pissed because they paid $2k to watch their kid get run off the pitch and aren't developing. Coaches get fired because parents are pissed.

If you want to know which clubs are most likely to engage in this kind of behavior - It's the same clubs that defied California's quarantine rules by scheduling undercover scrimmages, private fields and/or travelled to Arizona half a dozen times.

 

[KJR]

It's all fictitious but if you go by that just like I said ECRL and NPL are equivalent and ECNL is the next Level up.

Socal Discovery is a NPL so only ECRL players or those at the level should be permitted not ECNL which is the next level up above

NPL's and ECRL have seperate leagues, playoffs, events and they don't compete verse ECNL. Just like Socal Discovery doesn't compete with ECNL so those player shouldn't be permitted because there essential playing Down.

I may regret jumping in here, but "Easy solution don't allow anyone to play down only same level or up" is the SOCAL policy. The point of the email is that clubs are abusing it. It's bizarre to me that clubs would stack Flight 3 teams with top flight guest players; if they're so scared of losing their local market share that they want to crush Flight 3 and win imaginary trophies then all they're doing is driving away those Flight 3 families whose kids are losing playing time. (But then maybe they deserve to be losing those families...)

I will say that, as a smaller club, the Club Pass rule has helped us fill out rosters for certain games when kids are traveling/unavailable, and I'm sure it's been useful for other clubs in similar positions. So we like the policy and hope it's followed/enforced.

I'll also say that "ECRL and NPL are equivalent and ECNL is the next level up" is a broad, inaccurate statement. But I'm sure ECNL appreciates it.

 

[Emma]

Agree.....playing down that far is BS......a middle of the road SW ECNL team would maul the SW NPL teams and having ECNL players play in the SCDSL/Socal league like that makes a mockery of things and is not fair on the kids who work hard.....

I'm gonna go with the TOP ECNL teams can beat MOST, not all, NPL teams but middle of the road and lower ECNL teams could probably save some money and play NPL/Discovery or lower.

 

[lafalafa]

If US Club Soccer maintained a database of all players it would be fairly easy to do what you're proposing.

You'd also need an app to maintain player status, eligibility, teams/games registered for, scores, stats, etc, etc, etc.

Im going to go out on a limb and say that none (or very little of what I listed) is happening.

Not really it's pretty simple already have that info on the cards, rosters, game day info, etc..

ECxx info is available to anybody who manages a team and they can maintain roster rules so why can't SoCal?

I may regret jumping in here, but "Easy solution don't allow anyone to play down only same level or up" is the SOCAL policy. The point of the email is that clubs are abusing it. It's bizarre to me that clubs would stack Flight 3 teams with top flight guest players; if they're so scared of losing their local market share that they want to crush Flight 3 and win imaginary trophies then all they're doing is driving away those Flight 3 families whose kids are losing playing time. (But then maybe they deserve to be losing those families...)

I will say that, as a smaller club, the Club Pass rule has helped us fill out rosters for certain games when kids are traveling/unavailable, and I'm sure it's been useful for other clubs in similar positions. So we like the policy and hope it's followed/enforced.

I'll also say that "ECRL and NPL are equivalent and ECNL is the next level up" is a broad, inaccurate statement. But I'm sure ECNL appreciates it.

Not my definition it's from USclub and they provide those charts, you can disagree all you want but there the sanctioning body for both leagues.

Well it's not a policy if you're not enforcing it, that's called suggestions.

Club pass is fine,. CSL coast does it the correct way and doesn't seem to have the same problems or grievances so obviously something's need to change and the current "honor" system is not working all that well.

 

[futboldad1]

I'm gonna go with the TOP ECNL teams can beat MOST, not all, NPL teams but middle of the road and lower ECNL teams could probably save some money and play NPL/Discovery or lower.

LOL I think you'd be in for a reality check......scrimmages between ECNL teams and Discovery teams this past summer were anywhere from 5 zero to too many goals to count and this is across various clubs and age groups......maybe Sharks are the exception but ECNL teams have way too much talent for 99% of the teams not in the ecnl.....I get that you don't like the ECNL but its a dead horse at this point

But to follow up on your point of top ecnl teams can only beat most......what SW NPL team at U15 and older do you think could give Slammers Koge or Surf any kind of a game?

 

[timbuck]

I may regret jumping in here, but "Easy solution don't allow anyone to play down only same level or up" is the SOCAL policy. The point of the email is that clubs are abusing it. It's bizarre to me that clubs would stack Flight 3 teams with top flight guest players; if they're so scared of losing their local market share that they want to crush Flight 3 and win imaginary trophies then all they're doing is driving away those Flight 3 families whose kids are losing playing time. (But then maybe they deserve to be losing those families...)

I will say that, as a smaller club, the Club Pass rule has helped us fill out rosters for certain games when kids are traveling/unavailable, and I'm sure it's been useful for other clubs in similar positions. So we like the policy and hope it's followed/enforced.

I'll also say that "ECRL and NPL are equivalent and ECNL is the next level up" is a broad, inaccurate statement. But I'm sure ECNL appreciates it.

This is the policy from the SoCal Handbook. Players can play up or down.

1.4 - Club Pass Rule Each US Club Soccer Player pass can be used for any age-appropriate team in the issuing Club. Thus, Players have the ability to move up and down within their Club, giving individual teams the ability to make changes, game to game due to illness, injury, vacation, or other conflicts. Limitations apply in State Cup and NPL - leagues where Players cannot play on two teams. It is considered unethical for teams to move Players to teams in a lower-level division within the same Club for the purpose of creating a competitive advantage. While this is not a violation of the club-pass rule, any team club passing players to create a competitive advantage will be in violation of the Spirit of the Game.

For SOCAL league play, players may play in no more than 2 games in one-day

The highlighted part is the loophole. Clubs are going to exploit this due to the way the weak policy is written.

 

[lafalafa]

This is the policy from the SoCal Handbook. Players can play up or down.

1.4 - Club Pass Rule Each US Club Soccer Player pass can be used for any age-appropriate team in the issuing Club. Thus, Players have the ability to move up and down within their Club, giving individual teams the ability to make changes, game to game due to illness, injury, vacation, or other conflicts. Limitations apply in State Cup and NPL - leagues where Players cannot play on two teams. It is considered unethical for teams to move Players to teams in a lower-level division within the same Club for the purpose of creating a competitive advantage. While this is not a violation of the club-pass rule, any team club passing players to create a competitive advantage will be in violation of the Spirit of the Game.

For SOCAL league play, players may play in no more than 2 games in one-day

The highlighted part is the loophole. Clubs are going to exploit this due to the way the weak policy is written.

It is considered unethical for teams to move Players to teams in a lower-level division within the same Club for the purpose of creating a competitive advantage.

Easy correct the oversite like other leagues have done and not allow playing down or set some limits or better controls.

Nobody is keeping track of ethics or doing anything about them so what's the point in that statement?

 

[D8958]

It is considered unethical for teams to move Players to teams in a lower-level division within the same Club for the purpose of creating a competitive advantage.

Easy correct the oversite like other leagues have done and not allow playing down or set some limits or better controls.

Nobody is keeping track of ethics or doing anything about them so what's the point in that statement?

Well I guess they tried, I mean it is “a very strongly worded press statement”.

 

[KJR]

This is the policy from the SoCal Handbook. Players can play up or down.

1.4 - Club Pass Rule Each US Club Soccer Player pass can be used for any age-appropriate team in the issuing Club. Thus, Players have the ability to move up and down within their Club, giving individual teams the ability to make changes, game to game due to illness, injury, vacation, or other conflicts. Limitations apply in State Cup and NPL - leagues where Players cannot play on two teams. It is considered unethical for teams to move Players to teams in a lower-level division within the same Club for the purpose of creating a competitive advantage. While this is not a violation of the club-pass rule, any team club passing players to create a competitive advantage will be in violation of the Spirit of the Game.

For SOCAL league play, players may play in no more than 2 games in one-day

The highlighted part is the loophole. Clubs are going to exploit this due to the way the weak policy is written.

I knew I'd regret jumping in. My fault -- I confused the league Club Pass rule with the State Cup one, which is "Players can play on their existing team for State Cup AND they can be rostered to another State Cup team from your club but ONLY BY PLAYING UP. Players can not roster to a second team with a sideways move, meaning they can not play for a younger team or a team in their own birth year." Which seems closer to the intention of club passing players. Anyway, I agree that SOCAL was perhaps naive to leave it up to individual club/team ethics.

 

[Emma]

LOL I think you'd be in for a reality check......scrimmages between ECNL teams and Discovery teams this past summer were anywhere from 5 zero to too many goals to count and this is across various clubs and age groups......maybe Sharks are the exception but ECNL teams have way too much talent for 99% of the teams not in the ecnl.....I get that you don't like the ECNL but its a dead horse at this point

But to follow up on your point of top ecnl teams can only beat most......what SW NPL team at U15 and older do you think could give Slammers Koge or Surf any kind of a game?

Surf and KOGE beats most ECNL teams by 4-5 goals at least, so very comparable with the

LOL I think you'd be in for a reality check......scrimmages between ECNL teams and Discovery teams this past summer were anywhere from 5 zero to too many goals to count and this is across various clubs and age groups......maybe Sharks are the exception but ECNL teams have way too much talent for 99% of the teams not in the ecnl.....I get that you don't like the ECNL but its a dead horse at this point

But to follow up on your point of top ecnl teams can only beat most......what SW NPL team at U15 and older do you think could give Slammers Koge or Surf any kind of a game?

I believe there were definitely a few teams in the ECNL 05 groupings, boys and girls that lost a few games and were flighted in lower brackets, unless it was an "ecnl" bracket. Your girl's Surf, KOGE, Beach and Legends are generally top teams but Strikers, Arsenal, Rebels, Sharks, Heat, AZ Arsenal, other AZ teams, Breakers, and even Eagles definitely has a few age group teams that would be more competitive in the Discovery bracket. On the boys side, a few of the top ECNL teams are great but the mid and lower may not even be competitive against some of the NPL teams.

Tudela, Laguna United and So Cal Elite, and East County Surf plus few more I'm not mentioning are a few non ECNL clubs that could compete with those lower end ECNL.

But this is an age old argument and isn't relevant to this thread.

I do agree that sending top ECNL players to discovery level is terrible if it's taking play time. Send your ECRL or ECNL bench players if the Discovery team has less than 15 players for the game.

 

[Woodwork]

I knew an SCDSL team at a mega club that had dual rostered ECNL players on a flight 2 team. The excuse was they needed more players, which is true. But, alternatives to this include recruiting lower level players instead of higher double-committed ones or disbanding your team and letting them play on other teams that need them. Heaven forbid.

 

[lafalafa]

I knew an SCDSL team at a mega club that had dual rostered ECNL players on a flight 2 team. The excuse was they needed more players, which is true. But, alternatives to this include recruiting lower level players instead of higher double-committed ones or disbanding your team and letting them play on other teams that need them. Heaven forbid.

Over booking teams in a league when you don't have the players to fill them is a rather poor and sloppy excuse to play players down several levels.

Taking or promoting the so called lower level players would have been the ethical and likely more beneficial thing to do long term for more players.