Return to Play & Practice

[Keepermom2]

No good news but at least deaths are at its lowest point for a long time.
209 deaths Sunday, down 23% from last Sunday. Lowest Sunday since March 28.

I have learned you can't look at weekend numbers because they don't have all hospitals reporting. Tuesday through Friday is generally the most reliable picture (I say that loosely) of what is occurring. We are experiencing greater than 30% increase in hospitalizations per week and the age o hospitalizations is going down 20 to 49. I confirmed that info with nurses from a large hospital in OC.

 

[Grace T.]

I'm not locking my teen up by any means. Just finding alternative activities. Cycling, hiking, running, tennis, lots of safe outings with friends. Just not contact sports with coronavirus denier parents on the sidelines for us right now. Also, the advice of medical experts seems pretty consistent. Sure, some recommendations have changed as they learn more about this brand new virus.

1. There's no "safe" outing with friends. If your teen is with friends, you are taking a risk they are exposed to the virus, particularly because so many teens are asymptomatic. By doing that you are just as guily as the deniers or protestors of spreading the virus.
2. The advice of the so-called experts has been anything but consistent. No masks, then masks. 1 month lockdown, then more lockdowns. Gyms open, but not even distanced sports. BLM protests o.k. but antilock protests spreads the virus. HDQ works, no it doesn't, yes it does. There hasn't been anything that's consistent or makes sense, nor should there be because no one really knows what they are doing (as the point out). The flaw is in the experts making it seem to everyone else like they know what they are doing. And it doesn't have very much to do about learning more stuff about the virus...we've known the basics of this since the Diamond Princess. People have a responsibility not just to defer to the experts, but to think for themselves and get critically educated.
3. The CFR (not IFR which is a fixed number) continues to fall on this thing despite the rise in cases. Yes, it's serious. Yes, it's more serious than the flu. But if you look around the world it's increasingly looking like nothing works to contain it...you just have to burn through a certain amount and eventually it settles down. I don't get the fear porn. The worst (nationally, not regionally) really is behind us.
4. The way this is going down I'm pretty sure now no fall season (quite possibly for any sport) and even the schools are looking iffy. I said it a few months ago...get out of Cali if you can.

 

[Dof3]

Agree totally. I don't rely only on government medical experts. Large amounts of highly regarded medical experts are also concluding with similar findings.

Are any of those medical experts among the 1300 who approved street protests for racial justice issues and denounced street protests of health orders? One of the big issues now (and I fear is an issue that will long survive this COVID crisis) is that our experts have willfully provided misinformation (Dr. Fauci and the "masks are worthless" of March in order to preserve them for health care workers??? Who made Dr. Fauci a god who gets to decide to put average people at risk based on a statement he knew to be false when he made it? How many people got sick who may not have had they or others been wearing a mask? How many of them died? We can't have it both ways. Masks are worthless or Dr. Fauci's willful misstatements resulted in people DYING). These same experts elected to get political about the transmission risk of a highly contagious virus based on what the group of people were discussing and now they are incentivized to spin data to reinforce a narrative they chained themselves to. People don't trust them. And it is not just soccer parent deniers (whatever that means). Who here has a lower opinion of the CDC than they did 1 year ago? I do. Who here would have expected medical experts to take positions on protests during a pandemic based on the protests content? Not me.

So now I want to see the studies. Where is the data that says children in school are spreading the disease in a serious way? And how is that lightly studied risk balanced against the known deleterious effects of distance learning? Against the mental health effects of lockdowns and abnormal isolation? On the consequences to people's financial security and the long term economic welfare of a country now adding trillions and trillions of dollars to its national debt? Who pays for the medical care of the 40 million people who have lost their jobs? What will the long term effect of that be on health care providers?

Orange County recently (and this may still be the case) prohibited sandcastle building at the beach due to COVID. Really? Racial justice protests are OK but no gatherings for the 4th of July by order of the governor?? George Floyd's funerals are fine but nobody else can bury their dead? Protests are OK but not OK for a father to see his child born? Or family to visit a dying person in a hospital? Ok to shop at Target but not Best Buy? The wild irrationality and too often political nature of these positions has undermined credibility of both public officials and private experts. That's scary, has killed people and will kill more people. Americans are not an ungovernable people. But infantilizing, inconsistent nonsense is poor public policy, as is politicizing a public health issue.

 

[Ellejustus]

Sorry...I laughed when I read your post because it is sooooo over dramatic. I adopted my oldest daughter from an orphanage when she was 4.5 years old and she suffers from developmental trauma and severe depression moderate recurrent. In all of my research over the years related to Trauma, never once did I read trauma caused by not being able to play a sport. I did read about Trauma caused by social isolation but the reality is, social media has helped alleviate that issue. Also the kids can meet in a park socially distanced, can go for a walk socially distanced, and meet at Starbucks socially distanced. My daughter is pretty tenacious and has found many alternatives. Does this suck for them? Absolutely! Trauma from it? Highly unlikely.

What I did read is trauma caused by themselves ending up in the hospital, a parent or other family member ending up in the hospital or dying, or the rest of the obvious abuse and the like. Like GKMOM said, they have found alternatives. This is a great opportunity to teach children coping skills and how to look for solutions instead of at the problem.

Do you know anyone who lost someone to suicide?

 

[Ellejustus]

What is the good news on the Virus?

The good news is young people are not dying from Corona and they have a better chance of living then the regular flu. That is good news compared to the bad news on the news and what we knew about Corona in March. Many unknowns still but what I do know is many on here have made it political, just like some did with soccer. Same folks, different strokes.

 

[Keepermom2]

1. There's no "safe" outing with friends. If your teen is with friends, you are taking a risk they are exposed to the virus, particularly because so many teens are asymptomatic. By doing that you are just as guily as the deniers or protestors of spreading the virus.
2. The advice of the so-called experts has been anything but consistent. No masks, then masks. 1 month lockdown, then more lockdowns. Gyms open, but not even distanced sports. BLM protests o.k. but antilock protests spreads the virus. HDQ works, no it doesn't, yes it does. There hasn't been anything that's consistent or makes sense, nor should there be because no one really knows what they are doing (as the point out). The flaw is in the experts making it seem to everyone else like they know what they are doing. And it doesn't have very much to do about learning more stuff about the virus...we've known the basics of this since the Diamond Princess. People have a responsibility not just to defer to the experts, but to think for themselves and get critically educated.
3. The CFR (not IFR which is a fixed number) continues to fall on this thing despite the rise in cases. Yes, it's serious. Yes, it's more serious than the flu. But if you look around the world it's increasingly looking like nothing works to contain it...you just have to burn through a certain amount and eventually it settles down. I don't get the fear porn. The worst (nationally, not regionally) really is behind us.
4. The way this is going down I'm pretty sure now no fall season (quite possibly for any sport) and even the schools are looking iffy. I said it a few months ago...get out of Cali if you can.

The good news is young people are not dying from Corona and they have a better chance of living then the regular flu. That is good news compared to the bad news on the news and what we knew about Corona in March. Many unknowns still but what I do know is many on here have made it political, just like you did with soccer. Same folks, different strokes.

Just like I did with soccer? WTH are you talking about?

 

[Ellejustus]

Just like I did with soccer? WTH are you talking about?

Grace or EJ? Oops, I wrote wrong again. This was directed only to the true elitists. I was generalizing and I shouldnt have your quote. I will correct that. Sorry and I mean that. Its me not understanding. Please forgive, TY. P.S. The value you get for a platinum membership is you can delete anything you want. I'm always open to listening where I make mistakes.

 

[watfly]

Do you know anyone who lost someone to suicide?

Unfortunately, a very good friend lost their son to suicide during the lockdown. Whether the lockdown impacted his actions, we will likely never know.
I don't know anyone that's a few degrees removed from me that has died of Covid, but I do know a couple other teens in the community that have committed suicide during Covid. Devastating regardless of the cause.

 

[Eagle33]

Sorry...I laughed when I read your post because it is sooooo over dramatic. I adopted my oldest daughter from an orphanage when she was 4.5 years old and she suffers from developmental trauma and severe depression moderate recurrent. In all of my research over the years related to Trauma, never once did I read trauma caused by not being able to play a sport. I did read about Trauma caused by social isolation but the reality is, social media has helped alleviate that issue. Also the kids can meet in a park socially distanced, can go for a walk socially distanced, and meet at Starbucks socially distanced. My daughter is pretty tenacious and has found many alternatives. Does this suck for them? Absolutely! Trauma from it? Highly unlikely.

What I did read is trauma caused by themselves ending up in the hospital, a parent or other family member ending up in the hospital or dying, or the rest of the obvious abuse and the like. Like GKMOM said, they have found alternatives. This is a great opportunity to teach children coping skills and how to look for solutions instead of at the problem.

Can you please point out to me where in my post anything being mentioned about sports?

 

[Keepermom2]

1. There's no "safe" outing with friends. If your teen is with friends, you are taking a risk they are exposed to the virus, particularly because so many teens are asymptomatic. By doing that you are just as guily as the deniers or protestors of spreading the virus.
2. The advice of the so-called experts has been anything but consistent. No masks, then masks. 1 month lockdown, then more lockdowns. Gyms open, but not even distanced sports. BLM protests o.k. but antilock protests spreads the virus. HDQ works, no it doesn't, yes it does. There hasn't been anything that's consistent or makes sense, nor should there be because no one really knows what they are doing (as the point out). The flaw is in the experts making it seem to everyone else like they know what they are doing. And it doesn't have very much to do about learning more stuff about the virus...we've known the basics of this since the Diamond Princess. People have a responsibility not just to defer to the experts, but to think for themselves and get critically educated.
3. The CFR (not IFR which is a fixed number) continues to fall on this thing despite the rise in cases. Yes, it's serious. Yes, it's more serious than the flu. But if you look around the world it's increasingly looking like nothing works to contain it...you just have to burn through a certain amount and eventually it settles down. I don't get the fear porn. The worst (nationally, not regionally) really is behind us.
4. The way this is going down I'm pretty sure now no fall season (quite possibly for any sport) and even the schools are looking iffy. I said it a few months ago...get out of Cali if you can.

I am surprised by your post because you usually have a very fact based response. If you look around the world you see the countries that have succeeded in diminishing the spread have done some pretty severe things like lock downs and the like or they have learned from experience like South Korea who learned from H1N1 when they didn't have any PPE on hand, and didn't know the importance of contact tracing. They were shut down for little time because they had recently been through it and learned from their mistakes. They also wear masks! Your analysis alludes to herd immunity and that has already been debunked by medical experts. I point you to what is happening in Sweden. What countries are you referring to that it just settles down?

There is no 100% safe even in your home with food being delivered. There doesn't need to be an all or nothing solution and especially given this virus and what we do know today, you can sit 10ft. apart both wearing masks and your likelihood of getting it or giving it is slim. What we know today is the bigger droplets carry more viral loads and cotton cloth masks are the best option (not better than N95 but better than the others) at stopping those bigger droplets. My adult daughter wears a mask with a filter and a shield. Basically you have to manage living with risk keeping it risk of spreading as low as possible.

I agree with you about no soccer in fall. Do they have soccer going on in Texas and Arizona?

Some Countries Have Brought New Cases Down To Nearly Zero. How Did They Do It?

It's a diverse mix of places — New Zealand, Vietnam, Germany, Costa Rica. We look at the keys to their success in controlling the coronavirus.

www.npr.org

 

[Keepermom2]

Can you please point out to me where in my post anything being mentioned about sports?

I guess I inferred since you are on a soccer chat.

 

[Dummy]

What has happened at our nursing homes is horrific and the failure of leadership in some areas for not providing extreme targeted protection is criminal.

Thank you for the CIDRAP link. I did a search on "youth Covid" on CIDRAP and I didn't see any article regarding youth outbreaks or evidence of youth spread of Covid to older adults. Other than one mention of a breakout among youth at a detention facility in Louisiana. In contrast there were a few articles, or links, to articles about the concern for the non-Covid health impacts of "school closings, social distancing, overwhelming numbers of distressing public health messages, and cancelation of non-urgent healthcare visits" for vulnerable or at risk youth (ie low socioeconomic families).

In fact a link to an article from the American Academy of Pedriatrics said this about social distancing, sheltering in place with abusive parents, lack of health treatment for other health issues (including mental).
"These conditions highlight how morbidity and mortality in vulnerable pediatric populations will likely extend beyond the pandemic itself."

Please don't listen to me or any other soccer parent regarding the risks to youth of Covid. But please do your own research and don't just assume youth are at high risk or are spreaders of Covid because your a victim of the fear mongering you hear on TV.

I am glad that you explored the CIDRAP website. I think you will like the Osterholm Update because he doesn’t take an all or nothing approach to the public health responses to COVID-19. He talks about balancing risks and benefits on individual and societal levels based on his review of the most up to date science. He is thoughtful.

Figuring out what is happening with the kids is difficult because it is incredibly challenging to conduct scientific research on minors. They are rightly protected by IRBs, which makes prospective research very difficult. Most kids (hopefully) are protected by parents and out of school, so nobody is able to measure what the risks are, which is making retrospective research difficult too. My sense is that there won’t be any well done studies to guide timely decision making about what to do with kids until after actual decisions are made. Future researchers will look back on what we do as parents and draw conclusions.

I share the CIDRAP link (and push the Osterholm Update) so parents can be as informed as possible when making choices for their kids in an uncertain present (which is different in degree but not in kind from youth club soccer!).

Thank you again for checking out CIDRAP and for sharing the summary of the broad scope that it takes when considering the risks of COVID-19 and the impacts of various public health responses.

Best of luck to all.

 

[Keepermom2]

Grace or EJ? Oops, I wrote wrong again. This was directed only to the true elitists. I was generalizing and I shouldnt have your quote. I will correct that. Sorry and I mean that. Its me not understanding. Please forgive, TY. P.S. The value you get for a platinum membership is you can delete anything you want. I'm always open to listening where I make mistakes.

Awe...I was wondering because I thought Brady Bunch bonded us for life. LOL No worries...I was shocked which is why the comment "WTH"....I have stayed away from politics on here.

 

[Keepermom2]

Do you know anyone who lost someone to suicide?

During COVID, no. What I do know about Suicide in teens is there is generally an underlying condition such as depression that is different than the kind of depression that people generally deal with. People that haven't experienced it really struggle with understanding it. It is so heartbreaking.

 

[Grace T.]

I am surprised by your post because you usually have a very fact based response. If you look around the world you see the countries that have succeeded in diminishing the spread have done some pretty severe things like lock downs and the like or they have learned from experience like South Korea who learned from H1N1 when they didn't have any PPE on hand, and didn't know the importance of contact tracing. They were shut down for little time because they had recently been through it and learned from their mistakes. They also wear masks! Your analysis alludes to herd immunity and that has already been debunked by medical experts. I point you to what is happening in Sweden. What countries are you referring to that it just settles down?

p.s. it's a myth that everyone in Europe wears a mask. Their mask usage is actually about on par as ours and some of the lightest hit countries don't require them. Germany itself is a mish mosh of mask usage and no mask usage. They certainly help, but it's becoming evident the surgical masks, bandanas and most cloth masks do very little (like stopping mosquistos with a chain link fence) and if we wanted a solid mask program the government should be handing out at least high quality cloth masks or better grade. From the early studies, particuarly in Germany, they might help about 40%. Helpful, not great.

 

[Grace T.]

p.s. it's a myth that everyone in Europe wears a mask. Their mask usage is actually about on par as ours and some of the lightest hit countries don't require them. Germany itself is a mish mosh of mask usage and no mask usage. They certainly help, but it's becoming evident the surgical masks, bandanas and most cloth masks do very little (like stopping mosquistos with a chain link fence) and if we wanted a solid mask program the government should be handing out at least high quality cloth masks or better grade. From the early studies, particuarly in Germany, they might help about 40%. Helpful, not great.

I've done very extensive studies of the other countries. No one is really doing great. The Northern states hit most likely like Norway and Denmark don't require masks. South Korea's Test and Trace (which was extreme and involved removing people and forcing them to quarantine in hotels) has had limited success and they've had a second wave and ongoing rolling lockdowns. Germany has less testing now than the US, it isn't always free, and you can't get it on demand even if you don't have symptoms (like you can in Los Angeles). The only thing that seems to have worked is after your initial wave your transmission rates drop (we see it in Spain, Italy, the UK, France, New York). The South and Eastern Europe probably locked down too early....the only thing those lockdowns seem to do is to push back the wave later in time....unless you perpetually lock down the initial wave will happen. Lockdowns seem to have marginal utility as well (if timed perfectly by holding down the peek of the wave) but no country has broken its wave. Only China (if you believe them) seems to have had any success but that's with forced testing of its population and welding people shut in their apartments. Mexico has had a horrible outbreak and at least part of what we are seeing is spillage across the border (from US citizens, white and Latino, retired snowbirds or seasonal workers, going across for medical care).

 

[Ellejustus]

During COVID, no. What I do know about Suicide in teens is there is generally an underlying condition such as depression that is different than the kind of depression that people generally deal with. People that haven't experienced it really struggle with understanding it. It is so heartbreaking.

Why does a teen kill themselves? Why does someone get the Corona? So the facts are that old people with underlying health conditions are dying from the Corona. Teens are not dying of Corona but are dying in record numbers from suicide. We need to find out why they are saying goodbye to all of us and not make fun of them. I dont you think are one, but I have Elitist friend and that's all they say. "Probably had some depressed teen who had a t supporter as a dad." I actually heard that come back yesterday. It's all t's fault. The oldest among us have lived a long life already. The one's who drank, smoked, ate whatever the heck they wanted and never exercised are scared of death and want everyone on lock down. Some said this would have been a great time to get their asses in shape and stop taking all the meds from big pharma and I agree. Anyway, the Brady Bunch rocks and I wish I was 10 again.

 

[Ellejustus]

I've done very extensive studies of the other countries. No one is really doing great. The Northern states hit most likely like Norway and Denmark don't require masks. South Korea's Test and Trace (which was extreme and involved removing people and forcing them to quarantine in hotels) has had limited success and they've had a second wave and ongoing rolling lockdowns. Germany has less testing now than the US, it isn't always free, and you can't get it on demand even if you don't have symptoms (like you can in Los Angeles). The only thing that seems to have worked is after your initial wave your transmission rates drop (we see it in Spain, Italy, the UK, France, New York). The South and Eastern Europe probably locked down too early....the only thing those lockdowns seem to do is to push back the wave later in time....unless you perpetually lock down the initial wave will happen. Lockdowns seem to have marginal utility as well (if timed perfectly by holding down the peek of the wave) but no country has broken its wave. Only China (if you believe them) seems to have had any success but that's with forced testing of its population and welding people shut in their apartments.

Well you better watch what you say in Cali or they will weld your mouth shut with staples. Trust me, they tried this on me with soccer.

 

[Keepermom2]

Why does a teen kill themselves? Why does someone get the Corona? So the facts are that old people with underlying health conditions are dying from the Corona. Teens are not dying of Corona but are dying in record numbers from suicide. We need to find out why they are saying goodbye to all of us and not make fun of them. I dont you think are one, but I have Elitist friend and that's all they say. "Probably had some depressed teen who had a t supporter as a dad." I actually heard that come back yesterday. It's all t's fault. The oldest among us have lived a long life already. The one's who drank, smoked, ate whatever the heck they wanted and never exercised are scared of death and want everyone on lock down. Some said this would have been a great time to get their asses in shape and stop taking all the meds from big pharma and I agree. Anyway, the Brady Bunch rocks and I wish I was 10 again.

Please share where you are getting your information on record numbers of suicide related to teenagers? I am interested. I absolutely do not dismiss any suicide. I know more about it than I am willing to share here.

Having said that, dismissing the oldest on the basis of they have "lived a long life already" is diminishing the value of life itself and placing a value of a person which is a very slippery slope and history has shown us how terrible that can be. When you have walked the halls with people that are fighting for one more year of life, then talk to me.

By the way, 1 in 10 people with diabetes and COVID will die. Not all people get diabetes from being out of shape. Some people get it because of genetics. A significant amount of people with underlying conditions has nothing to do with being out of shape or not taking care of themselves.

Again....the various levels of lock down has NOTHING to do with number of deaths. It has to do with the rate of the spread of the illness. Who is spreading the illness right now? 20 to 49 year olds. If you don't diminish rate of the spread, you risk an overwhelming of the hospital system. Take a look at Arizona and Texas who didn't decide to make changes until at 89% capacity. For the last 3 weeks we have been increasing hospitalizations at least 27% to 36% per week (today was is 27% when compared to last Tuesday). If we continue at that rate, we reach capacity (not considering surge capacity) at the end of August. I am not sure the recent mandates will be enough to slow it down and we won't know for about another 14 to 21 days.

 

[Keepermom2]

I've done very extensive studies of the other countries. No one is really doing great. The Northern states hit most likely like Norway and Denmark don't require masks. South Korea's Test and Trace (which was extreme and involved removing people and forcing them to quarantine in hotels) has had limited success and they've had a second wave and ongoing rolling lockdowns. Germany has less testing now than the US, it isn't always free, and you can't get it on demand even if you don't have symptoms (like you can in Los Angeles). The only thing that seems to have worked is after your initial wave your transmission rates drop (we see it in Spain, Italy, the UK, France, New York). The South and Eastern Europe probably locked down too early....the only thing those lockdowns seem to do is to push back the wave later in time....unless you perpetually lock down the initial wave will happen. Lockdowns seem to have marginal utility as well (if timed perfectly by holding down the peek of the wave) but no country has broken its wave. Only China (if you believe them) seems to have had any success but that's with forced testing of its population and welding people shut in their apartments. Mexico has had a horrible outbreak and at least part of what we are seeing is spillage across the border (from US citizens, white and Latino, retired snowbirds or seasonal workers, going across for medical care).

I was responding to your original post that said "if you look around the world it's increasingly looking like nothing works to contain it...you just have to burn through a certain amount and eventually it settles down. I don't get the fear porn. The worst (nationally, not regionally) really is behind us." It appears what you are saying above does not match up with your original statement. The worst is behind us? So how does the 30% increase in hospitalizations per week indicate the worst is behind us?