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Another example of failing to look in the mirror. No, we don’t blame him for the pandemic, just the miserable aftermath, you know, the one we’re all in.

“Nothing else has worked, what the F**k does that mean?

Hey, I’m still waiting for those 3 innocent White toddlers. Tik Tok.....Tik Tok......Tik Tok.....

"Just the miserable aftermath." You mean the marching in streets? Rioting? Looting? All taking place in liberal run cities? You losers calling Trump a "dictator" when he takes charge and a "pussy" when he gave the power to governors? And my how your libtard governors have fucked it up.

What does it mean? It means you sorry motherfuckers tried everything to get rid of Trump and nothing worked. Not Stormy... not Mueller... not Stormy 2.0... not Russia... not all the books from fired employees... nothing. Now you clowns are down to a worldwide pandemic and out of time. And you think America is stupid enough to believe it's Trump's fault. That the economy and jobs dropping are because of him and not the Kung Flu.

And yeah, Justapuss... still waiting for names of all those innocent black people killed by police. You have any? Tick tock, douchebag.
 
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If you look at the Asian countries, though, they've all had repeated outbreaks (except for Taiwan, which sealed themselves off, and China/Vietnam, which used the extreme tactics) precisely because they aren't at 15-20%. Japan had a second wave despite masks (if masks work, they wouldn't have...mask might still have a marginal utility but not enough macro utility to stop a Japanese outbreak). South Korea has an ongoing slow burn (despite the most sophisticated T&T and enforced quarantines). Hong Kong is in its third wave. Singapore is in its second again despite its vaunted T&T. The Philippines has one of the most robust mask requirements in the world yet is still ongoing. Sweden though does not (and does some real stupid stuff) and it's receded now....why?
But kids don't party hard in Asia like we do in the states.
Just think of all the money we would have if all the illegals were not here?
Just imagine how much smarter our kids would be if teachers didn’t have to teach illegals English before they can teach them math.
Just imagine what getting rid of all the illegals and their families would do to the obesity epidemic.
Just imagine getting seen at the ER without having to wait behind Jose and Maria who’s healthcare I am funding.
What a wonderful world.
Welcome to north Texas
 
Another films: "I grow tired of asking this so it will be the last time". The other countries you cite have not hit their 15-20% threshold. Therefore you don't see it at work. Taking them each at a time:

China: Surely you don't advocate the harsh measures undertaken by China? In Hong Kong, where there are limits still on the ability of China to use its techniques, and where western press still has a presence, they are on their 3 wave. This despite a universal mask requirement, test and trace, and severe limitations. That said...they may have hit the 20% marker in Wuhan...we simply don't know due to the Chinese government's propensity to falsify information. But, few people (outside of yourself) have said a Chinese style system should be adopted here.

Japan: Universal mask usage has been unable to contain the virus and they are now in their second wave and second round of lockdowns. Mind you, I think masks helps, but the Phillipinnes also shows the limits of mask usage.

Korea: Actually shows the limits of test and trace. Despite one of the best test and trace systems, not to mention enforced quarantines, they haven't been able to contain the virus and have periodic outbreaks...like a fire you have to constantly try to smother out but are unable to.

New Zealand: Island...got lucky no superspreader event early....didn't have very many tests per capita but deployed what they had early wisely. Sealed themselves off from the rest of the world and as an island they are able to effectively do that (our southern outbreak is partially fueled by the southern border).

Finland and Norway: Have no mask requirement and the lowest levels of mask usage in the western world.

Germany is probably the most interesting case. If my lockdown theory is correct, they just timed it perfectly. They got lucky with their lack of superspreader events. Weather may be a factor. They have less testing capacity than the US and face mask usage is certainly less compliant than SoCal. Even so, it's experts in the last couple days have warned that like France, they are seeing indications of a second wave, particularly in the east which is less densely populated and wasn't hit as hard the first time round.

Spain: toughest lockdown in the western world and universal mask usage (and no stupid bandanas or cloth masks allowed like here). It's actually the best case against the 15-20%. The rebuttal is that the outbreak is currently mostly in the Catalonia area where the initial wave wasn't as severe. But if Spain accelerates again it will effectively kill the idea there's a breaker at 15-20% (which leaves only weather as a likely indicator, given the Swedish experience, but it would also explain what's happening in Germany, Finland and Norway). Either way, Spain stands as a testament that short of a perpetual lockdown, there's not much anyone can do....because if it's out there Spain has done it.

Now this is just opinion but I actually think clinging to false hope is more dangerous. It leads us to do truly stupid stuff.....like when at least 1/3 of our population has decided social distancing is over and they're not going to do it anymore and completely fill up various parks this weekend with full contact, punishing kids (and not businesses like Downtown Disney or Knotts) by taking their sports and schooling away.
When you have a list of exceptions this long, maybe your universal 15% isn’t as universal as you think?

Your exceptions are mostly accurate, but they could be accurate here, too. WE could do massive contact tracing like Korea. WE could have a high rate of mask usage like Japan or Spain. WE could enforce distancing like Germany.

Instead, we argue over whether it is ok for Walmart to enforce masks. By now, Walmart should be handing out free N-95 masks as you enter the store, and my tax dollars should be paying for them to be made in Minnesota.

You won’t find me in favor of opening casinos and amusement parks while closing t-ball and skate parks. I agree with you that we have gone way overboard in opening up high density, high cost venues.
 
When you have a list of exceptions this long, maybe your universal 15% isn’t as universal as you think?

Your exceptions are mostly accurate, but they could be accurate here, too. WE could do massive contact tracing like Korea. WE could have a high rate of mask usage like Japan or Spain. WE could enforce distancing like Germany.

Instead, we argue over whether it is ok for Walmart to enforce masks. By now, Walmart should be handing out free N-95 masks as you enter the store, and my tax dollars should be paying for them to be made in Minnesota.

You won’t find me in favor of opening casinos and amusement parks while closing t-ball and skate parks. I agree with you that we have gone way overboard in opening up high density, high cost venues.

Well, we don't know simply because those other areas haven't hit 15%. I made the best argument against the 15%: Spain....if in the coming weeks Spain accelerates past 15% we will know that breaker isn't very strong and there's something else causing the slow down (maybe the TB vaccine, maybe weather....we don't know). Right now the outbreak in Spain is centered on areas that don't have 15% penetration. Further, Italy with a very similar weather pattern and a south where things didn't get too bad isn't following the same pattern.

You and I actually probably see eye to eye on a lot of what we should be doing....I just disagree that it will have the effect you think it will....it will help (masks helped in Japan) but it's not enough to stop what's going on or keep anyone safe and if we are going to listen to the experts, it's not an excuse to keep kids out of school or distanced sports.
 
When you have a list of exceptions this long, maybe your universal 15% isn’t as universal as you think?

Your exceptions are mostly accurate, but they could be accurate here, too. WE could do massive contact tracing like Korea. WE could have a high rate of mask usage like Japan or Spain. WE could enforce distancing like Germany.
This would take an overwhelming consensus and I don't understand why anyone believes that consensus is something that would occur in the US. Structurally, there are states right. Even during WW II and there was a significant portion of the population that didn't want to get involved. According to one recent poll, over 50% (assuming no overlap) of the people believe executives should be FIRED for supporting either Trump (31%) or Biden (22%). It is my belief that if aliens invaded, 20% wouldn't believe it and at least that percent would side with the aliens.
 
Yes, this makes a lot of sense to me as a significant factor. I believe NYC got hit with the perfect storm of unfortunate decision making and "perfect" weather for the virus. I have to wonder if the urban areas of Oregon and Washington are going to enter a bad time for the virus come November - February. If you look at Oregon's excess deaths, you'd never know anything was going on. Washington had a bit of a bump, but really looked about equivalent to the flu season of 2017. If you look at the states that have been going through a tough time now (AZ, TX, FL), everyone there has been inside in AC for at least 2 months.
When looking for a causal link, you have to look at the totality of the variables not just isolate the ones that make sense to your opinion ignoring all other variables. I have provided the link to John Hopkins site that shows the State case maps that includes the dates of State orders since the Pandemic began. To ignore that and the scientific evidence regarding the weather impact is to ignore significant variables and makes any hypothesis that doesn't include them mute.
 
When looking for a causal link, you have to look at the totality of the variables not just isolate the ones that make sense to your opinion ignoring all other variables.
Understood, but there are some things going on in terms of virus transmission that aren't explained or predicted well. I am only suggesting that it may be a larger factor and explain some of the "unexplained" realities.
 
Well, we don't know simply because those other areas haven't hit 15%. I made the best argument against the 15%: Spain....if in the coming weeks Spain accelerates past 15% we will know that breaker isn't very strong and there's something else causing the slow down (maybe the TB vaccine, maybe weather....we don't know). Right now the outbreak in Spain is centered on areas that don't have 15% penetration. Further, Italy with a very similar weather pattern and a south where things didn't get too bad isn't following the same pattern.

You and I actually probably see eye to eye on a lot of what we should be doing....I just disagree that it will have the effect you think it will....it will help (masks helped in Japan) but it's not enough to stop what's going on or keep anyone safe and if we are going to listen to the experts, it's not an excuse to keep kids out of school or distanced sports.
To be fair, the 15-20% line may only work because people get scared. Give them time to forget their fear, the masks go back on the chin and rates may go right past 15% and settle at a higher level.

Spain isn’t the only place that will tell us. AZ, TX, and FL are also in a spot to peak, dip, relax behavior, and push past 15% this fall. Italy, Sweden, and France could do it, too.

I don’t think distancing and universal masks would eradicate the disease. But proper behavior could get us back to where San Jose was in April. 5-10 daily cases per million residents and a 2% positive test rate.
 
Understood, but there are some things going on in terms of virus transmission that aren't explained or predicted well. I am only suggesting that it may be a larger factor and explain some of the "unexplained" realities.
At the beginning of the Pandemic everyone was analyzing a moving target. As time has progressed and historical data is available worldwide, the peer reviewed scientific data by non governmental agencies is adding up in great quantities. The "unexplained" realities is becoming less every day.
 
"Just the miserable aftermath." You mean the marching in streets? Rioting? Looting? All taking place in liberal run cities? You losers calling Trump a "dictator" when he takes charge and a "pussy" when he gave the power to governors? And my how your libtard governors have fucked it up.

What does it mean? It means you sorry motherfuckers tried everything to get rid of Trump and nothing worked. Not Stormy... not Mueller... not Stormy 2.0... not Russia... not all the books from fired employees... nothing. Now you clowns are down to a worldwide pandemic and out of time. And you think America is stupid enough to believe it's Trump's fault. That the economy and jobs dropping are because of him and not the Kung Flu.

And yeah, Justapuss... still waiting for names of all those innocent black people killed by police. You have any? Tick tock, douchebag.

Yep, another miserable day for you. Thank your captain.
 
That said...they may have hit the 20% marker in Wuhan...we simply don't know due to the Chinese government's propensity to falsify information

I found this to be the opposite. The media and the US government is at present engaged in a propaganda war against China. Very likely the numbers coming from China is correct. Most of the time, the China government facts while it is slow, has turned out to be correct. We can start with the Tiananmen Massacre which the media reported deaths of thousands. Turns out nobody died there on that morning. Deaths were from street protests, not from the clearing of the square. Lately, there have been reports of Uigur concentration camps. See, it has been debunked:


 
I found this to be the opposite. The media and the US government is at present engaged in a propaganda war against China. Very likely the numbers coming from China is correct. Most of the time, the China government facts while it is slow, has turned out to be correct. We can start with the Tiananmen Massacre which the media reported deaths of thousands. Turns out nobody died there on that morning. Deaths were from street protests, not from the clearing of the square. Lately, there have been reports of Uigur concentration camps. See, it has been debunked:


Where are you from, blam?
 
Orange County soccer mom trying to make it to Oceanside practice on time
 

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