New York Red Bulls withdraw from GA Cup due to on-field racism incidents

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focomoso

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My son has trained internationally in Europe and this is a real problem:

I see two issues here:

1) This is unacceptable and shouldn't be tolerated.

Yes, but also:

2) The language used doesn't have the same weight in places that don't have the same racial dynamics as we do in the US.

Which means educating the offending players (letting them know why this type of language rises above just everyday trash talking) might be more helpful than exiting the tournament. Though you could argue that exiting the tournament goes a long way toward impressing on the kids what a big deal this is.

theathletic.com

Red Bulls depart youth tourney due to racism

The New York Red Bulls’ academy teams decided to pull out of the Generation Adidas (GA) Cup after their players alleged an “extreme lack of action” by MLS related to two separate on-field racist incidents. The latest of those incidents came on Thursday, when the team alleges U-17 defender Eric...
theathletic.com theathletic.com
 
focomoso said:
My son has trained internationally in Europe and this is a real problem:

I see two issues here:

1) This is unacceptable and shouldn't be tolerated.

Yes, but also:

2) The language used doesn't have the same weight in places that don't have the same racial dynamics as we do in the US.

Which means educating the offending players (letting them know why this type of language rises above just everyday trash talking) might be more helpful than exiting the tournament. Though you could argue that exiting the tournament goes a long way toward impressing on the kids what a big deal this is.

theathletic.com

Red Bulls depart youth tourney due to racism

The New York Red Bulls’ academy teams decided to pull out of the Generation Adidas (GA) Cup after their players alleged an “extreme lack of action” by MLS related to two separate on-field racist incidents. The latest of those incidents came on Thursday, when the team alleges U-17 defender Eric...
theathletic.com theathletic.com
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A. Disagree about the racial dynamics not caring weight. If anything in Latin America they are more racially divided (remember in Latin America there are instances of intentional genocide of peoples and a longer lasting of slavery). And in some places in Europe they considered certain peoples quite literally subhuman. If anything, it’s because we are more educated, sensitive and racially aware
B. It’s happened on the pro levels too especially recently. It’s a real problem in soccer
C. It’s a problem locally too. I’ve now seen it happen locally countless times by various races. Refs typically ignore it because either they don’t hear, claim not to hear it or don’t have the proof to make it stick
D. I get why they are po’d. Unacceptable to happen at the cup. U.S. soccer and fifa need to do something. We need too move to zero tolerance on this like we have on ref abuse.
 
focomoso said:
My son has trained internationally in Europe and this is a real problem:

I see two issues here:

1) This is unacceptable and shouldn't be tolerated.

Yes, but also:

2) The language used doesn't have the same weight in places that don't have the same racial dynamics as we do in the US.

Which means educating the offending players (letting them know why this type of language rises above just everyday trash talking) might be more helpful than exiting the tournament. Though you could argue that exiting the tournament goes a long way toward impressing on the kids what a big deal this is.

theathletic.com

Red Bulls depart youth tourney due to racism

The New York Red Bulls’ academy teams decided to pull out of the Generation Adidas (GA) Cup after their players alleged an “extreme lack of action” by MLS related to two separate on-field racist incidents. The latest of those incidents came on Thursday, when the team alleges U-17 defender Eric...
theathletic.com theathletic.com
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, this is apparently fairly common in teen youth soccer. MLS Next addressed this problem a couple years ago, but it doesn't sound like its gotten any better. I'm not condoning either use, but some is banter among teammates and some is directed as derogatory towards opponents. I've never personally heard it, but according to my son, it is common place. Based upon what he tells me, it appears to be cultural.
 
watfly said:
Unfortunately, this is apparently fairly common in teen youth soccer. MLS Next addressed this problem a couple years ago, but it doesn't sound like its gotten any better. I'm not condoning either use, but some is banter among teammates and some is directed as derogatory towards opponents. I've never personally heard it, but according to my son, it is common place. Based upon what he tells me, it appears to be cultural.
Click to expand...
It’s both. A friend, ex-teammate and now a keeper coach in MLS has a different impression. He’s from Costa Rica and played at the highest levels there. When I played with him it was culturally okay to call him. “Negro”. I never did way back in 95 when I first played with him. But, not everyone else outside of the team. Nor should they. It’s a term for some who are culturally in line and see it for a term of endearment. But, otherwise it’s viewed as an insult. Essentially, per him now it’s BS to use a word to address an opponent that’s not culturally acceptable elsewhere, it is offensive. Players know.
 
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One of our club teams had a similar issue last season, in the Socal League: they walked away from an in-season game (mid game) because of some fairly significant racial abuse coming from players on the other side. At the time, Socal League had professed a zero-tolerance policy for racism and abuse in games, and the team's coach felt that (with video evidence and such), some action would be taken, and it would not ultimately affect their record.

Spoiler alert: it did; Socal League did nothing, and their supposed "zero tolerance" policy is just CYA BS (we've had a number of racist incidents with teams in the league, all reported, the league doesn't care). Officially, their stance was that since the center referee didn't report the incident (and claimed to have not personally heard it during the game), there was nothing they were going to do. Functionally, the league doesn't appear to care at all, and the tolerance on a per-game basis entirely depends on the referee on the field (ie: we have had one ref who carded players for just swearing to themselves on the field, and others who just ignored clear racist slurs in-game which were audible even from the sidelines). The only thing which is consistent is that the league itself isn't going to take any actions with respect to any amount of racially motivated verbal abuse on the field.
 
sigmabody said:
One of our club teams had a similar issue last season, in the Socal League: they walked away from an in-season game (mid game) because of some fairly significant racial abuse coming from players on the other side. At the time, Socal League had professed a zero-tolerance policy for racism and abuse in games, and the team's coach felt that (with video evidence and such), some action would be taken, and it would not ultimately affect their record.

Spoiler alert: it did; Socal League did nothing, and their supposed "zero tolerance" policy is just CYA BS (we've had a number of racist incidents with teams in the league, all reported, the league doesn't care). Officially, their stance was that since the center referee didn't report the incident (and claimed to have not personally heard it during the game), there was nothing they were going to do. Functionally, the league doesn't appear to care at all, and the tolerance on a per-game basis entirely depends on the referee on the field (ie: we have had one ref who carded players for just swearing to themselves on the field, and others who just ignored clear racist slurs in-game which were audible even from the sidelines). The only thing which is consistent is that the league itself isn't going to take any actions with respect to any amount of racially motivated verbal abuse on the field.
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Without going into a lot of details, I can assure you that it happens in college soccer as well.
 
Honestly, before I was told anything, my assumptions were that, with club-level soccer:
  • Racist insults (and most other forms of trash talk) would occur on the field
  • Unless there was some physical component of harassment, it would be generally ignored
I was surprised to learn that Socal League has a stated "no tolerance" policy toward racism and racist slurs (I think any type of hate rhetoric, actually) on the field, just as I was surprised (and honestly kinda amused, in an "okay, Karen" sense) when we had the one (presumably very conservative) female ref who started issuing warnings for swearing on the field (for 12+ year old kids). On the former, though, I have to wonder about the wisdom of having that stated policy and then refusing to do anything when that conduct occurs; it seems like that would aggravate affected players and parents more than no policy at all. I know our club still has some parents who are pissed off because the league misrepresented what they would do, and that misrepresentation ultimately cost the club team standing (unfairly). In that case, lying about the policy made the problem worse.
 
One interesting development is this is that MLS created a list of banned terms. The use of any of those terms, regardless of whether or not they have a racial connotation, is considered racist/hate speech. So, there is now a broader definition of what is considered racist speech.
Personally, I have no issues with cleaning up the language so not implying this broader definition is a bad thing. I just found it interesting to see players use profanity and it be considered racist because there was a difference in the race of the speaker and victim. I think the refs could crack down on the use of profanity and dissent and it would inevitably lead to "cleaner" games and lower instances of racist speech. If they enforce the regulations regarding verbal abuse of any sort, it will lower the tide of all negative speech, including racism. I don't think soccer (or society really) is going to be able to legislate morality but can only limit the behavior that is offensive.
 
I was at both the Red Bulls games where verbal abuse was being hurled in all directions. I do know know the player from Monterrey was suspended by Monterrey for the remaining 4 games of GA Cup. Hadjuk Split denies any racial abuse but it was a very heated game, ending with red cards. I find it hard to believe that nothing was said. Flamengo players claim they were also victims of racist remarks from Phili. The entire thing was a mess. Eventually, MLS had to pivot and make announcements before games. By the end of the tournament, the games became increasingly chippy and more verbal confrontations. I think the MLS Next could have enforced the rules a bit more stringent early in semifinal and finals games and it may have altered the experience. A few yellows early to bring 14 and 16 year olds back into reality would have been helpful.
 
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