MLS youth league

Emma

SILVER ELITE
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Kante

GOLD
be interesting to see. lots of benefit in making MLS next game video widely available.

biggest would be that players and coaches outside of mls next could see what the level was, and learn and grow accordingly i.e. reaching that level, once it's de-mystified/becomes knowable, becomes possible.

obvious benies also accrue for scouting (pro, club, college, ynt) etc.

general rule about information/data is that it follows the network effect, that it becomes exponentially more valuable/useful the more people have access to it.

translation: if mls next starts a youtube channel, coffees are on me.
 

Dargle

SILVER ELITE
be interesting to see. lots of benefit in making MLS next game video widely available.

biggest would be that players and coaches outside of mls next could see what the level was, and learn and grow accordingly i.e. reaching that level, once it's de-mystified/becomes knowable, becomes possible.

obvious benies also accrue for scouting (pro, club, college, ynt) etc.

general rule about information/data is that it follows the network effect, that it becomes exponentially more valuable/useful the more people have access to it.

translation: if mls next starts a youtube channel, coffees are on me.
I have no doubt that they would attempt to include MLS Next games as part of an MLS media package. Some of these streaming networks need content and there is enough niche demand for HS age games that it would drive some people, on the margins, to add the subscription to their streaming network just to see the youth games. Doubt it would be for just any game, though, because video quality would vary so much as to be unwatchable in some cases. It would probably be for the showcases/playoffs etc where they could bring people in to do all the video work at a single site. That's what they did for the Generation Adidas Cup, which was on Twitch in 2019, but only for the finals

 
Anyone see published rules/regulations for the MLS league? They must exist, with all those games played last weekend in other parts of the country.
 

jpeter

PREMIER
Anyone see published rules/regulations for the MLS league? They must exist, with all those games played last weekend in other parts of the country.
There is a .pdf thats been given to clubs regarding the rules & regs but not posted on-line yet.

I haven't read it yet but was given you a summary as it was explained to me; follows the previous DA rules but with some modifications:

U16-U19 45s minute halves. U15-U15 40 minute halves, U13 35 minute halves

U14 to U19 “unlimited substitutions over three (3) moments in the game, plus half time with no re-entry after exiting the match.: U13 “Unlimited substitutions over three (3) moments per half, plus half time, with no re-entry per half.”

players “are recommended but not required to start in at least 25% of their Club’s MLS NEXT Games during the season. Additionally, we recommend that U-13, U-14 and U-15 players participate in 50% of the minutes played each season in their age group.”

For U-13 through U-19 MLS NEXT Games, only 18 Players from the Roster will be eligible to participate in each Game, and these Players must be placed on the Game Day Roster”

Clubs will have one period during the MLS NEXT Season (September 1, 2020 through April 2, 2021) at which time Players may be added as full-time.

Club Players must agree to forgo participating simultaneously in both (1) MLS NEXT and (2) high school or middle school soccer.” Exceptions for soccer school scholarship players.

Outside competition with permission and only in events that follow “the MLS NEXT Technical Framework and are in compliance with the standards outlined in the MLS NEXT Outside Competition Standards.”

No Club has exclusive territory rights. Clubs may recruit players for participation on Clubs from any geographic region.”
 
U14 to U19 “unlimited substitutions over three (3) moments in the game, plus half time with no re-entry after exiting the match.: U13 “Unlimited substitutions over three (3) moments per half, plus half time, with no re-entry per half.”



Club Players must agree to forgo participating simultaneously in both (1) MLS NEXT and (2) high school or middle school soccer.” Exceptions for soccer school scholarship players.
I thought one thing clubs didn't like about DA was the sub rules. No re-entry makes no sense to me. Most of these kids aren't being developed for anything beyond HS. Makes sense for MLS clubs, but not the LAUFA, Albion, City FC's etc of the world. I can't imagine being the parent of a kid who drives three hours for a game or goes to AZ only to play the last five minutes or not at all.

What is the rationale that HS soccer is good for GA players, but bad for MLS league players? There is only one which is that the MLS teams need teams to play. So just like the DA, the non MLS teams exist to serve the MLS teams. I wish all of these teams would have to be required to list "where are they now" for the four years after the players are done with club soccer. I'd bet most DA/MLSNext teams that aren't affiliated with MLS clubs have most of their players done with competitive soccer within two years of graduating HS.
 

watfly

PREMIER
I thought one thing clubs didn't like about DA was the sub rules. No re-entry makes no sense to me. Most of these kids aren't being developed for anything beyond HS. Makes sense for MLS clubs, but not the LAUFA, Albion, City FC's etc of the world. I can't imagine being the parent of a kid who drives three hours for a game or goes to AZ only to play the last five minutes or not at all.
Hadn't thought much about the no re-entry rule, but I think your spot on. That is going to be particularly troublesome for my son's team given there is a precipitous drop off from starters to bench. I have to believe that our coach didn't think that one through when he added players that aren't currently ready for this level of competition, but thought he could develop. That's going to be difficult to manage...there will always be unhappy parents but this has the potential to magnify the situation.
 

lafalafa

SILVER ELITE
I thought one thing clubs didn't like about DA was the sub rules. No re-entry makes no sense to me. Most of these kids aren't being developed for anything beyond HS. Makes sense for MLS clubs, but not the LAUFA, Albion, City FC's etc of the world. I can't imagine being the parent of a kid who drives three hours for a game or goes to AZ only to play the last five minutes or not at all.

What is the rationale that HS soccer is good for GA players, but bad for MLS league players? There is only one which is that the MLS teams need teams to play. So just like the DA, the non MLS teams exist to serve the MLS teams. I wish all of these teams would have to be required to list "where are they now" for the four years after the players are done with club soccer. I'd bet most DA/MLSNext teams that aren't affiliated with MLS clubs have most of their players done with competitive soccer within two years of graduating HS.
I'm with one of those clubs and the sub rules are improved over DA since the are now unlimited instead of a fixed and it's possible to now get all 18 on the game day roster into a game. Half time is when to sub if you want reentry later. This is the same as other usclub leagues like ECXX.

High school this year not going to work well with spring club concurrent and high school playing at the same time no matter what league. From a practical view point concurrent play is always tricky and the way it's been handled in the past is through scheduling workarounds but this year not so much.

The wording is there is no ban on return prohibition for high or middle school soccer like DA only that concurrent play is not allowed unless you have a waiver. In other words when your HS sesson is over you can return to play MLS NEXT or until you start HS play NEXT is OK. Some improvements over the former DA rules.

This is a boys only league so what girls leagues are doing is really not on the radar.
 

Dargle

SILVER ELITE
I thought one thing clubs didn't like about DA was the sub rules. No re-entry makes no sense to me. Most of these kids aren't being developed for anything beyond HS. Makes sense for MLS clubs, but not the LAUFA, Albion, City FC's etc of the world. I can't imagine being the parent of a kid who drives three hours for a game or goes to AZ only to play the last five minutes or not at all.

What is the rationale that HS soccer is good for GA players, but bad for MLS league players? There is only one which is that the MLS teams need teams to play. So just like the DA, the non MLS teams exist to serve the MLS teams. I wish all of these teams would have to be required to list "where are they now" for the four years after the players are done with club soccer. I'd bet most DA/MLSNext teams that aren't affiliated with MLS clubs have most of their players done with competitive soccer within two years of graduating HS.
I'm not sure the rationale for the sub rules, but the actual documents do state that they will be inspecting game reports for general observance of the 50% play "recommendation" for U13-U15, which makes it sound more like a strong recommendation. My sense is that if that recommendation is taken seriously, then the no re-entry rules would prioritize choosing which games kids play in rather than how many minutes they get in each game. You might play your best players most of the game in the tough games, but give other kids the full game in the games against lesser opponents. I guess playing the full 70 or 80 minutes every third game and maybe a few minutes in the other games could be better for a kid than playing 10-12 minutes each half in every game, at least if there is some transparency about it each week.

As for HS play, that seems to be a much higher priority for girls (hence the GA rule, which is a league unrelated to MLS Next). Maybe some boys who live in OC/SD/VC or in certain school districts care about it, but I haven't heard boys from LA complain about access to HS Soccer. Apart from Loyola HS, there are very few strong programs and there is generally little sense of school pride or community spirit around boys soccer in LA. In the City Section it's pretty much a mess for a really short season with few boys teams (or their coaches) taking it really seriously except perhaps in the west SFV.
 

Dargle

SILVER ELITE
Hadn't thought much about the no re-entry rule, but I think your spot on. That is going to be particularly troublesome for my son's team given there is a precipitous drop off from starters to bench. I have to believe that our coach didn't think that one through when he added players that aren't currently ready for this level of competition, but thought he could develop. That's going to be difficult to manage...there will always be unhappy parents but this has the potential to magnify the situation.
Is it possible your coach is going to roster those players as "Future Players" (the old Developmental Player) under the rule, rather than fully rostered players? That would allow them to get minutes in another team in the club. I think you can have a really large number of those players, enough for everyone who isn't a starter.
 

watfly

PREMIER
There is a .pdf thats been given to clubs regarding the rules & regs but not posted on-line yet.

I haven't read it yet but was given you a summary as it was explained to me; follows the previous DA rules but with some modifications:

U16-U19 45s minute halves. U15-U15 40 minute halves, U13 35 minute halves

U14 to U19 “unlimited substitutions over three (3) moments in the game, plus half time with no re-entry after exiting the match.: U13 “Unlimited substitutions over three (3) moments per half, plus half time, with no re-entry per half.”

players “are recommended but not required to start in at least 25% of their Club’s MLS NEXT Games during the season. Additionally, we recommend that U-13, U-14 and U-15 players participate in 50% of the minutes played each season in their age group.”

For U-13 through U-19 MLS NEXT Games, only 18 Players from the Roster will be eligible to participate in each Game, and these Players must be placed on the Game Day Roster”

Clubs will have one period during the MLS NEXT Season (September 1, 2020 through April 2, 2021) at which time Players may be added as full-time.

Club Players must agree to forgo participating simultaneously in both (1) MLS NEXT and (2) high school or middle school soccer.” Exceptions for soccer school scholarship players.

Outside competition with permission and only in events that follow “the MLS NEXT Technical Framework and are in compliance with the standards outlined in the MLS NEXT Outside Competition Standards.”

No Club has exclusive territory rights. Clubs may recruit players for participation on Clubs from any geographic region.”
Do you happen to know if there is going to be a full time vs. part time distinction whereby the part time wouldn't be subject to the 25% start and 50% play guideline and could only play in a certain number of games?
 

watfly

PREMIER
Is it possible your coach is going to roster those players as "Future Players" (the old Developmental Player) under the rule, rather than fully rostered players? That would allow them to get minutes in another team in the club. I think you can have a really large number of those players, enough for everyone who isn't a starter.
Our thoughts must have crossed in space. In his conversations with me, he termed them development contract players but we don't have a lower team for them to play on. He's a great coach tactically but often doesn't think things through logistically.
 
I'm not sure the rationale for the sub rules, but the actual documents do state that they will be inspecting game reports for general observance of the 50% play "recommendation" for U13-U15, which makes it sound more like a strong recommendation. My sense is that if that recommendation is taken seriously, then the no re-entry rules would prioritize choosing which games kids play in rather than how many minutes they get in each game. You might play your best players most of the game in the tough games, but give other kids the full game in the games against lesser opponents. I guess playing the full 70 or 80 minutes every third game and maybe a few minutes in the other games could be better for a kid than playing 10-12 minutes each half in every game, at least if there is some transparency about it each week.

As for HS play, that seems to be a much higher priority for girls (hence the GA rule, which is a league unrelated to MLS Next). Maybe some boys who live in OC/SD/VC or in certain school districts care about it, but I haven't heard boys from LA complain about access to HS Soccer. Apart from Loyola HS, there are very few strong programs and there is generally little sense of school pride or community spirit around boys soccer in LA. In the City Section it's pretty much a mess for a really short season with few boys teams (or their coaches) taking it really seriously except perhaps in the west SFV.
You make good points. When it comes to HS, I personally think that they take it away because they are trying to sell the college/pro dream, but the reality is that most boys don't play past HS and there are way more opportunities for women than men in college and beyond.
 

Dargle

SILVER ELITE
Our thoughts must have crossed in space. In his conversations with me, he termed them development contract players but we don't have a lower team for them to play on. He's a great coach tactically but often doesn't think things through logistically.
The new Future Player is basically the same as the old Developmental or Part-Time player. Practice with the MLS Next team at least 1x/week and play in no more than 12 or 13 games I think. The players’ other games can be with another team in the club or in an “affiliated” club. I don’t think they are subject to the 25/50% recommendation since their status assumes they play elsewhere too.
 

Kante

GOLD
The new Future Player is basically the same as the old Developmental or Part-Time player. Practice with the MLS Next team at least 1x/week and play in no more than 12 or 13 games I think. The players’ other games can be with another team in the club or in an “affiliated” club. I don’t think they are subject to the 25/50% recommendation since their status assumes they play elsewhere too.
Any sense on what - if anything - they're doing with "late developers" being able to play a year down? same as DA or different or not at all?
 

Dargle

SILVER ELITE
Any sense on what - if anything - they're doing with "late developers" being able to play a year down? same as DA or different or not at all?
I don't think they saying anything about playing down, but they do allow playing up with the ability to play two games in a day if the total minutes isn't more than the total minutes of one game for your regular team.
 

Kante

GOLD
I don't think they saying anything about playing down, but they do allow playing up with the ability to play two games in a day if the total minutes isn't more than the total minutes of one game for your regular team.
alas. got it. thx.
_____

Editorial for the day:

Headline: RAE goes by the wayside again.

Would like to take this opportunity to highlight that the first US Soccer Camp Brendan Aronson, Paxton Aronson, Alex Mendez, Frankie Amaya, Chris Gloster and yes, Sebastian Berhalter, were called up to was the US Soccer Futures Camp, a camp dedicated to late developing players.

All these players had been passed over by the traditional US Soccer YNT age groups camps up to that point.

Running the numbers, attending a US Soccer Futures Camp was more highly correlated to a player later being called up to the US u20 YNT than any other single, preceding YNT camp (eg, u14, u15 u16 etc)

The Futures Camp was first held by US Soccer in 2015, and then again in 2017, but was killed with nary a whimper in 2019. RIP.

and now back to business as usual.

Meanwhile, little known, obscure soccer countries like France and England are actively cultivating late developers, but they don't know anything...
 

watfly

PREMIER
Any sense on what - if anything - they're doing with "late developers" being able to play a year down? same as DA or different or not at all?
RAE was a misguided experiment by US Soccer that was doomed to fail. RAE is not going to make any difference until US coaches change their whole mentality of picking size over skill at the youth level. Why change the game by playing down when we need to change our mentality. Coaches think they can teach a big kid touch, but aren't willing to invest in the shorter more skilled, oftentimes smarter, kid over the long run. Size has a short term benefit for winning, but not much significance relative to skill and IQ in the long run.

Before Cruyff, Barcelona had a sign on the coaches door that "If your offering us a youth player shorter than 1.8 meters (5'10"), turn around and go home". Obviously, we know what happened after Cruyff took over. We need the same mindset change in the US.
 

Emma

SILVER ELITE
RAE was a misguided experiment by US Soccer that was doomed to fail. RAE is not going to make any difference until US coaches change their whole mentality of picking size over skill at the youth level. Why change the game by playing down when we need to change our mentality. Coaches think they can teach a big kid touch, but aren't willing to invest in the shorter more skilled, oftentimes smarter, kid over the long run. Size has a short term benefit for winning, but not much significance relative to skill and IQ in the long run.

Before Cruyff, Barcelona had a sign on the coaches door that "If your offering us a youth player shorter than 1.8 meters (5'10"), turn around and go home". Obviously, we know what happened after Cruyff took over. We need the same mindset change in the US.
That's a tough decision for a coach to make, choosing between an athletic kid capable of handling the current level or choose a skilled kid currently being knocked off the ball all the time. How will he know what the future holds? What if the big athletic kid puts in the work to learn the game and become skillful? What if the small one never grows and always has beautiful touches but can't keep up with speed and strength?

Playing down or on the second team is a great solution for smaller players but parents are too prideful to put our small skilled player in the B team until they're fully developed and can handle the physicality of the A team.
 
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