GunScare @ Albion Cup?

with all the emphasis everyone places on winning, I sincerely doubt anyone is going to walk-away from a top 10 nationally ranked team to start over with another program.

Has been a lot of good info here about what happened, I think we're at a point where most of the reports support the others. Its really clear that the fault lay with one older brother, and one adult who despite being released by the police, escalated it with his acting skills. My question: do either of these teams have a history of previous issues? If yes, then I consider leaving. If not, a six-month suspension of the teams, and a lifetime ban for the brother (entire family?) and the bad-actor seem the appropriate response.
 
ItsJustSoccer said:
Still no official statement from Albion or Cal South?

I understand that the investigation is still on-going but it is in poor taste to not release anything. As someone that was at this event, I have personally received no communication or acknowledgement that something happened.

Has anyone else received anything?
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I haven't either. I understand the urge to deflect and minimize, but that is not going to work here. Albion may not, at least institutionally, be responsible for what happened. But it was their tournament and a coach wearing their patch contributed to the issue, did not act to deescalate in any effective way and has tolerated conduct from parents on that team this year that he should not have. And I know this from a parent with a kid on the team. The trouble with deflecting and minimizing is the affected people start to think that the institutions are not getting it, that affected people are not being heard, that the institutions don't really understand what happened. They need to. What happened on Sunday should never happen again. And people can be held accountable for what happened, or - I think more productively - they can be held accountable to take steps to try to keep it from happening again. What happened was not OK. So yes, call Cal South. Call your clubs. Speak up and encourage them to seize the opportunity to lead. And to do it now, rather than announcing new initiatives a year from now as part of the settlement of a class action lawsuit. I don't care about our team's tournament fees. I don't want anyone's money. I do want institutions to take ownership of this problem and demand better from themselves, their staff and their customers. Some people are angry. Some people are motivated. Deflecting and minimizing is not going to work with angry and motivated people.
 
After thinking about this for a while, it still seems to me that the backpack gun guy should be charged with a crime. Is it legal to threaten someone with a weapon? Whether or not he actually had a gun, he said he did and threatened people. He should be charged with a crime and prosecuted. It goes without saying that he should be banned for life by CalSouth.
 
Could not have said it better. As parents we can't let this blow over, our kids deserve better.

Dof3 said:
I haven't either. I understand the urge to deflect and minimize, but that is not going to work here. Albion may not, at least institutionally, be responsible for what happened. But it was their tournament and a coach wearing their patch contributed to the issue, did not act to deescalate in any effective way and has tolerated conduct from parents on that team this year that he should not have. And I know this from a parent with a kid on the team. The trouble with deflecting and minimizing is the affected people start to think that the institutions are not getting it, that affected people are not being heard, that the institutions don't really understand what happened. They need to. What happened on Sunday should never happen again. And people can be held accountable for what happened, or - I think more productively - they can be held accountable to take steps to try to keep it from happening again. What happened was not OK. So yes, call Cal South. Call your clubs. Speak up and encourage them to seize the opportunity to lead. And to do it now, rather than announcing new initiatives a year from now as part of the settlement of a class action lawsuit. I don't care about our team's tournament fees. I don't want anyone's money. I do want institutions to take ownership of this problem and demand better from themselves, their staff and their customers. Some people are angry. Some people are motivated. Deflecting and minimizing is not going to work with angry and motivated people.
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Bri’s-DAD said:
Small percentage to support your evidence. I’m steadfast on my opinion of children being a reflection of their parents.
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I think sometimes its too easy just to blame the parents. Generally kids reflect their parents behavior, but its not at all unusual for kids to be wired differently from their parents. I know crappy kids that have great parents, and great kids that happen to have crappy parents.

I'm not condoning anything the older sibling did, but it not unusual for kids to lack impulse control. Likely the sibling is just a bully, but its also plausible that the sibling is overprotective of his little brother (who may have been a bullied himself). Regardless the child should be punished and if the sibling is also a soccer player he should have his Calsouth card suspended.

The sad thing is that certain adults that have power to do something about it are publicly laying the blame at the feet of what appears to be a young teenager. Effectively excusing bad parent behavior because of something a kid did is really pathetic.

Emma your takes are usually spot on, but I disagree that most parents would put a beat down on the sibling (assuming that that actually happened and the minor was just simply restrained). Would I want to put a beat down on the kid, sure, but I would hope most adults would have the impulse control to know that its not OK to smack a minor. Personally, I would check on my kid first.

ItsJustSoccer said:
Still no official statement from Albion or Cal South?

I understand that the investigation is still on-going but it is in poor taste to not release anything. As someone that was at this event, I have personally received no communication or acknowledgement that something happened.

Has anyone else received anything?
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Albion (NG and ZK) have already made their public statements. "Siblings fault and somebody should really do something about what is happening in youth soccer...and come check out our tryouts."

If Calsouth were an effective organization they would release a statement now that they are taking the incident seriously and are performing a thorough investigation, the results of which will be announced upon completion. While some of the facts are unknown or in dispute, what can't be disputed is that parents and children were running in fear for their lives resulting from an incident at a U11 game between Azteca and Albion at an Albion tournament.
 
timbuck said:
Does anyone know if any of the people involved in the fight spent any time at the “Silverlakes Field House”?
I like a drink as much as anybody. But I don’t think a bar belongs at a youth soccer complex.
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You are entirely off base here amigo. It is about the only thing that makes going to Silverlakes bearable. Nice setup in there. Nothing better than watching a little football, sucking down an IPA and then heading out to the field to watch your kid play.

Parents at games have been fighting for a long time. The vast VAST majority at fields without any onsite bar.
 
Emma said:
It takes a little sacrifice to make a change for the better. If that's too much to grab your team to go to a different Club - then you are saying comfort and the status quo is sufficient.
To your get real point - It doesn't take every player to make the change, just a decent amount. People have changed clubs for a lot less reasons - we see it all the time on this board. There are plenty of players at Albion that are not in this situation and would be able to make that change. Surf Point Loma & Blast are right around the corner for the youngers. Rebels & Sharks ECNL would like some great players from the girls programs. NOMADS DA would love some boys from Albion DA programs.

I hope there are enough parents from Albion who care enough to take action and reach out to Noah Gins.

(619) 279-2812 (cell) ngins@albionsoccer.org


I hope there are enough parents on this forum who will reach out to Cal South.



CAL SOUTH EMAIL:

Cindy Quan
President and Chairman
760-887-0131
cquan@calsouth.com

Roy Carlson
Executive Vice President
858-603-5402
rcarlson@calsouth.com

Jerry Selby
Vice President of Youth
jselby@calsouth.com

District 5 Commissioner
(San Bernardino/Riverside Counties)
Louie De La Cruz
760-244-6878 – ldelacruz@calsouth.com

District 1 Commissioner
(San Diego/Imperial Counties)
Robert Pennoyer
619-988-5499 – rpennoyer@calsouth.com
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Hey Emma - Why don't you write a letter to CalSouth, using your real name, and say that you are pulling your kids out of soccer unless they hold the clubs accountable?
 
Is CalSouth aware of the incident? Yes.
Has CalSouth been contacted my multiple individuals? Yes.
Is CalSouth investigating the incident? Yes.
Has CalSouth put out a statement that I'm aware of? No.
Should CalSouth have put out a statement that they are aware and investigating? Yes.

What I've come to learn about most (not all) clubs and soccer organizations is they suck at communication. Regardless, I at least know they are looking into it, so I'm willing to see what happens.

That said, if it is a week before State Cup and nothing has been done, I'll be the first one picketing in front of their offices in Fullerton. I'd hope others would join so at least we could say we tried to make soccer safer for our kids.
 
focomoso said:
I'm not sure how wrong a statement can be. Parents can guide their kids and provide the best conditions they can, but everyone is different and deals with stress / conflict differently. For evidence, see any family with one "respectful good citizen" and one not so respectful good citizen.
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I would agree that a good parent doesn't guarantee a good kid and vice versa, but I would be willing to bet that it's more likely to have a child with bad behavior if the parent has bad behavior and vice versa.


I guess what I'd say is that a child's values/behavior is not statistically independent of parental values/ behavior
 
Desert Hound said:
You are entirely off base here amigo. It is about the only thing that makes going to Silverlakes bearable. Nice setup in there. Nothing better than watching a little football, sucking down an IPA and then heading out to the field to watch your kid play.

Parents at games have been fighting for a long time. The vast VAST majority at fields without any onsite bar.
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People act like there have not been scuffles and fights at youth sporting events before here. To be perfectly honest, the thing that scares me the most is the actions that will be taken, because so many people freak out. No gun was even there. A fight broke out. A delinquent child ran on a field and sucker punched a kid. I went to a junior high in Arizona where there was a fist fight after school on a weekly basis year round. I don't want violence around my kid, but watch the news. It's around us all. Noone wants this at our tournaments, but competition can bring the best and the worst in people. Don't blame winning, drinking, or competition. I would bet a lot of money everyone on the field was sober especially the delinquent that sucker punched a 10 year old.

Now, lawyers are going to find an entry to punish financially, but problem is what was actually damaged? Games were disrupted and people panicked, but again, NO GUN OR WEAPON! I'm sure the embarrassment and stigma on the teams will be painful. The act that started it all was the sucker punch, but you put opposing family on the same side of the field and wonder why altercations get started? The best course of actions if team friction is the issue here would be to separate fans (family). It's not rocket science!
 
Stryprod said:
Is CalSouth aware of the incident? Yes.
Has CalSouth been contacted my multiple individuals? Yes.
Is CalSouth investigating the incident? Yes.
Has CalSouth put out a statement that I'm aware of? No.
Should CalSouth have put out a statement that they are aware and investigating? Yes.

What I've come to learn about most (not all) clubs and soccer organizations is they suck at communication. Regardless, I at least know they are looking into it, so I'm willing to see what happens.

That said, if it is a week before State Cup and nothing has been done, I'll be the first one picketing in front of their offices in Fullerton. I'd hope others would join so at least we could say we tried to make soccer safer for our kids.
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Please take a picture and post it. Maybe you can get the press to come out.
 
Fact said:
Don't deflect. Are you saying you wrote a letter to Calsouth and said that you are pulling your kiddos out of soccer if the clubs are not held accountable?
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There's no deflection here @Fact. I answered you clearly. This issue is important. It's not about play time, field conditions, whether direct v. possession is better, or how to eliminate all these closed up leagues to create a cheaper SoCal soccer environment.

This is about kids running for their lives and searching for their parents in fear while they should be enjoy playing their soccer games. We were lucky no one got trampled and seriously hurt this time, but we might not get so lucky next time and it could be any of our children.

I believe CalSouth and Albion will do the right things and our jobs as customers should be letting them know how important this issue is to us.

If my children were at Albion, I'd reach out to Noah and let him know that we will not be coming back if the decision is to sweep it under the rug but we will definitely be a committed to the club and believe they really care about the kids if they resolved this incident in a manner that will prevent further incidents.
 
way up said:
I'm sure the embarrassment and stigma on the teams will be painful. The act that started it all was the sucker punch, but you put opposing family on the same side of the field and wonder why altercations get started? The best course of actions if team friction is the issue here would be to separate fans (family). It's not rocket science!
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Trust me, this will all be forgotten by the second week of State Cup, other than the people from teams that were not involved and truly traumatized. Calsouth, the clubs and teams involved will brush it off and move on. I am not saying this is right, just what has happened in the past.

Separating fans seems like such a simple solution, unfortunately no one ever enforces it and you always get the parents that go on the free world rant. Calsouth should make this a rule and not let it up to the leagues and make parents sign an agreement at the beginning of the season so that they cannot claim that they did not know.
 
Emma said:
There's no deflection here @Fact. I answered you clearly. This issue is important. It's not about play time, field conditions, whether direct v. possession is better, or how to eliminate all these closed up leagues to create a cheaper SoCal soccer environment.

This is about kids running for their lives and searching for their parents in fear while they should be enjoy playing their soccer games. We were lucky no one got trampled and seriously hurt this time, but we might not get so lucky next time and it could be any of our children.

I believe CalSouth and Albion will do the right things and our jobs as customers should be letting them know how important this issue is to us.

If my children were at Albion, I'd reach out to Noah and let him know that we will not be coming back if the decision is to sweep it under the rug but we will definitely be a committed to the club and believe they really care about the kids if they resolved this incident in a manner that will prevent further incidents.
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Still did not answer the question of whether you are quitting soccer if Calsouth does not take action. But that was a given.

Also, nice how you completely ignore the other team that was involved and probably more culpable. Why do you fail to mention the Aztecs? Is it because you hate Albion and want to see their demise? I am not a fan of Noah but at least I can be objective and realize that these types of incidents (minus the gun guy and resulting panic of innocent families) happens all the time and yet little too no action results.
 
LMULions said:
My question: do either of these teams have a history of previous issues? If yes, then I consider leaving.
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What do you mean by "issue" If you watch the videos on youtube of either team, you'll note neither team hits the exemplary of what sidelines should behave like.

watfly said:
Emma your takes are usually spot on, but I disagree that most parents would put a beat down on the sibling (assuming that that actually happened and the minor was just simply restrained). Would I want to put a beat down on the kid, sure, but I would hope most adults would have the impulse control to know that its not OK to smack a minor. Personally, I would check on my kid first.
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The law recognizes the right to defend another, but as I outlined above there are limitations. The possible responses range from: putting yourself between the and taking the beating, separating them, taking the beating and responding back proportionately, sucker punching back, smacking the crap out of the assailant, smacking the crap out of the assailant including once he's down or retreated, and pulling a weapon on the assailant. Considering the response must be reasonable and proportionate, some of these are more o.k. than others. I don't think we've seen a video of the parent intervention, and even if we had, my guess is this probably lies in the grey area in the middle of the spectrum, which would mean you both have a point and reasonable people would disagree. And yes, the fact that an assailant was a minor changes things, but so does the fact that the victim was a minor (who was also engaged in an altercation on the field). The relative sizes of individuals too might also be relevant, as what others were doing to protect the minor victim.

way up said:
Now, lawyers are going to find an entry to punish financially, but problem is what was actually damaged?
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Yes, yes we will....whenever lawyers get involved things always get a little worse (and BTW, assuming no actual physical injury in the fleeing by anyone, the law recognizes emotional and mental damages...they have to be serious but that's what a good lawyer does).

I am surprised that to date CalSouth hasn't released something saying they are investigating the issue and will release a statement in due course, but I'd venture part of the reason is they are probably vetting the response with counsel since it has legal implications for things going forward. That said, pickett? Let me know when and where.
 
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