Game Recording

@SoccerLocker, could you tell me what speed/smoothness settings have worked the best for you?

Have you been able to compensate for the slight lag using the Ps4 Controller.
 
@mike-g, I keep the pan/tilt speed in the low 20s for a slow game and high 20s for a fast game. After I use the roll to set the camera level with the far touch line, it goes to 0. Smoothness I keep in the very low single digits I don't like the camera to slow to a halt, which can be perceived as lag.

I don't get much lag with my ps4 and these settings, and can usually keep the ball in the center square of the screen (my external monitor has a tic tac toe overlay that I use).

I do sometimes get lag in the zoom, but I use that as sparingly as possible.


Hope this helps!
 
@SoccerLocker Thanks for the tips. I used the setup this weekend and can agree with your settings. I didn't get much lag with the PS4 except with the zoom like you mentioned. It turns out my lag before was due to a remote wireless monitor I was using, but now I'm using it via HDMI and no lag.

I ended up getting a Sony AX43 camera to use with this and it works great!
Pro: You can use a shotgun mic, which I use with this camera.
Con; you need to worry about battery life.

I tried the Sony CX405, but the image quality wasn't great and you can't use an external mic.
Pro: You can plug the camera in via USB to an external battery pack.
Con: Image not as good, no 4k and no mic input.

Here is a sample of one of the games from this weekend. I literally bought he A43, on Saturday night before Best Buy closed, came home, charged it, and then brought it to the game in the morning to use. All worked out well fortunately.
 
Im selling one of my set ups, at least the motorized pan and tilt head and tripod...... I'll let the motorized head go for 200.00 its one of the best systems out there.

you can get amazing footage like this with the right set ups, wireless systems are OK but they lag and when you play dense areas like silver lakes , temecula or oceanside you get way too much lag from interference.......hardwire is the only way you can stay on the ball and get footage like this

Hit me up I live in tustin, If someone needs a 20ft tripod as well that will be another 300.00
9492742703
Chris D
 
mike-g said:
@SoccerLocker Thanks for the tips. I used the setup this weekend and can agree with your settings. I didn't get much lag with the PS4 except with the zoom like you mentioned. It turns out my lag before was due to a remote wireless monitor I was using, but now I'm using it via HDMI and no lag.

I ended up getting a Sony AX43 camera to use with this and it works great!
Pro: You can use a shotgun mic, which I use with this camera.
Con; you need to worry about battery life.

I tried the Sony CX405, but the image quality wasn't great and you can't use an external mic.
Pro: You can plug the camera in via USB to an external battery pack.
Con: Image not as good, no 4k and no mic input.

Here is a sample of one of the games from this weekend. I literally bought he A43, on Saturday night before Best Buy closed, came home, charged it, and then brought it to the game in the morning to use. All worked out well fortunately.
Click to expand...

This looks great!!! Nice camera work and good work with the overlay and instant replay
 
ChrisD said:
Im selling one of my set ups, at least the motorized pan and tilt head and tripod...... I'll let the motorized head go for 200.00 its one of the best systems out there.

you can get amazing footage like this with the right set ups, wireless systems are OK but they lag and when you play dense areas like silver lakes , temecula or oceanside you get way too much lag from interference.......hardwire is the only way you can stay on the ball and get footage like this

Hit me up I live in tustin, If someone needs a 20ft tripod as well that will be another 300.00
9492742703
Chris D
Click to expand...


Thats a pretty awesome setup. I have a decent camera but wanted to upgrade my tripod. The one i have is adequate but when panning from left to right etc, it is not smooth and that does affect the video output.

Any recommendation on a moderately priced tripod with a good panning head (not necessarily motorized).
 
SoccerLocker said:
This looks great!!! Nice camera work and good work with the overlay and instant replay
Click to expand...
Thanks! It's been an ongoing evolution over the last 5 years. My daughter guested for this game but usually I'll do chroma key overlays of the players like they do in US Football games, when someone scores a goal. Takes a long time to edit a game though, especially a high scoring one. I like to 1-0 wins :).
 
@SoccerLocker Are there any other options to livestream? I'm trying to figure out a livestream option. Do you know if any video cameras have this option integrated yet? It seems like the only option is the discontinued Webcaster X2? The plan is to go with a DJI Ronin SC Gimbal and a Light Mast. I'm having trouble figuring out the livestreaming aspect. I really need to figure out the easiest way to send and receive the livestream as I'm doing it for the grandparents to watch and of course document the games forever. Thank you for any help you can provide. This thread has been great!
 
Streaming options from $ to $$$$

  1. Cheap - strap a cellphone to an articulating camera head and stream away.
    1. Pros - one stop solution, a good 5G phone may work ok in alot of cases.
    2. Cons -
      1. subject to poor coverage, outages,
      2. no ability to restart the app on your phone during the game
      3. no zoom capability
  2. Moderate - purchase a video encoder and single cell modem, roughly $1000-1300 plus a cellular service plan
    1. Pros -
      1. uses output stream from camera, so better quality than phone
      2. some ability to troubleshoot since hardware is not up on the pole
    2. Cons -
      1. Bandwidth better than a phone, but still subject to poor coverage and outages
      2. requires separate plan from cell provider
  3. Moderate - use multiple modems from a single encoder, about $1500 plus two or more cellular service plans
    1. Pros
      1. more robust video since using multiple connections, ideally from two carriers
      2. even higher robustness if you use a service to bridge your two connections
    2. Cons
  4. High quality - use a bonded cellular service, ~$3-5k plus multiple cellular service plans, and a bonding cloud service.
    1. Pros
      1. the most robust portable connection. uses multiple connections from multiple carriers to improve robustness
    2. Cons
      1. probably $3-5k plus service fees. Requires multiple service plans
      2. larger units are backpack sized
  5. Very high quality - get hardline internet at the field
    1. Cons - expensive, not very portable
 
@supercell you didn't list the Webcaster X2 as an option? I was hoping there was some option where you could use your phone as the streaming device or that there was a camcorder that had livestreaming to youtube for example as an option. Maybe the reason I cant find anything like that as its not an option. The webcaster you plug the hdmi out from your camcorder into it and then your live streaming to youtube if you use the wifi from your cellphone for example. I was just thinking what the webcaster does that came out years ago could be easily integrated into a camcorder or for sure another device in the past couple years would have come out that does what the webcaster does.
 
SuperSoccerStar said:
@SoccerLocker Are there any other options to livestream? I'm trying to figure out a livestream option. Do you know if any video cameras have this option integrated yet? It seems like the only option is the discontinued Webcaster X2? The plan is to go with a DJI Ronin SC Gimbal and a Light Mast. I'm having trouble figuring out the livestreaming aspect. I really need to figure out the easiest way to send and receive the livestream as I'm doing it for the grandparents to watch and of course document the games forever. Thank you for any help you can provide. This thread has been great!
Click to expand...
I never found a camera that integrates live-streaming. Doesn't mean they don't exist, but used 1080p camera + webcaster X2 + good external monitor was about $700 so I quit looking. If you have trouble funding a Webcaster X2, PM me. We may be upgrading to a VEO v2 and getting rid of the gear.

You will also need very good cell service, preferably Verizon, to work best.
 
SuperSoccerStar said:
@supercell you didn't list the Webcaster X2 as an option? I was hoping there was some option where you could use your phone as the streaming device or that there was a camcorder that had livestreaming to youtube for example as an option. Maybe the reason I cant find anything like that as its not an option. The webcaster you plug the hdmi out from your camcorder into it and then your live streaming to youtube if you use the wifi from your cellphone for example. I was just thinking what the webcaster does that came out years ago could be easily integrated into a camcorder or for sure another device in the past couple years would have come out that does what the webcaster does.
Click to expand...
The webcaster (and there are lots of other encoders like it) convert the hdmi stream from your camera to IP and transmit it via wifi or hard wired connection. The trouble is, you typically don't have an internet connection at the field, or rather the one on your phone doesn't connect to webcaster. There is at least one way to do this though. You can buy a cheap hdmi to usb converter and use an application like cameraFi live which will let you stream that video using your phone's cell network. It does work (I've tried it), however it is not very reliable. You will get plenty of dropouts and compromised video depending on your cell phone's connection. This is a variation of option 1 above but does not really improve the stability of the connection which is based on your phone and the cell network. This is why people who do professional streaming often use a bonded cell service which combines together several cell connections from different carriers. They send this to a cloud server which deconflicts and merges all the data and streams your video live. Works pretty well but is beyond the scope of a parent diy soccer videographer.
 
SoccerLocker said:
I never found a camera that integrates live-streaming. Doesn't mean they don't exist, but used 1080p camera + webcaster X2 + good external monitor was about $700 so I quit looking. If you have trouble funding a Webcaster X2, PM me. We may be upgrading to a VEO v2 and getting rid of the gear.

You will also need very good cell service, preferably Verizon, to work best.
Click to expand...

hopefully you bought your veo 2 already. They already pushed people who bought the minute they announced out 4 more months to get their units. Its now "maybe" February.
 
SuperSoccerStar said:
I found this camera. Live streaming and you can put the score and time and stuff on the live stream by using an app on your phone. Thoughts?

Click to expand...

That's a sweet camera. Automates alot of the things most people do in post to produce soccer video, but in a streaming platform. Here are a few cons for such a pricey device/system:

- likely a single cell modem connection. Just a matter of time until you find yourself at a field with a crappy connection unable to stream. For that amount of money it should be robust. With current technology you need a bonded cellular connection for go-almost-anywhere and it will work functionality.
- no integration with your gimballing solution of choice. That means two controls you have to operate, zoom and pan/tilt. If you're streaming, you want to have zoom control over the camera at your fingertips. Producing good quality real time video is hard with control handicaps like this. Watch some college games on ESPN+ to see how easy it is to produce ugly video even with good equipment and solid streaming connections.
- that camera is getting a bit heavy for the gimballed heads you guys are discussing here. Gimbal speeds may be marginal for a high level game.

You can package a cheaper, higher performing, and more robust solution for less if you are willing to do some integration. For example, you can use any camera you like on a servo controlled pan/tilt head controlled with a radio control system. Use one channel of the radio for zoom control to the camera via a camremote adapter so you have pan/tilt on one stick, zoom on the other. Other camera functions may be controlled also if you have spare channels. The camera's HDMI output goes to the bonded cellular video encoder of your choice (VidiuX, LiveU, etc). Some limited overlays are possible here, but that JVC will have the advantage with that sort of thing.

But all of this is old school and requires an operator on site. The modern solution avoids much of this claptrap. Trace, Veo, Pixellot and others use two or more fixed cameras (no gimbals or optical zooms) producing a single large stitched image. An AI algorithm is able to zoom in on that composite image to track the ball, players, or whatever you might want. Right now they do it in post, but that capability can be done in real time as well with sufficient processing power. This is where technology is headed.
 
buy this and forget everything else...

videos posted on YouTube are fine enough, trust me the live streaming isn't worth the hassle . Ultimately ask yourself why you want to livestream, to say that your live-streaming to 3 people......... Unless you get over 100-500 consecutive views game after game I dont see the need. I dont think any youth club gets that.

I post videos online it works for the parents, if the parents can't make a game its not because they want to sit at home and watch to , it cause their busy and can't make the game.

I know we are tecky nerds, but invest in a good camera system and get away from any of the wifi based cameras and pan and tilt heads that used motors or wifi, their slow glitchy and dont work . You need to hard wire everything , Silverlakes is notorious for jamming up systems and creating lag

Think of this , if someone was to pay you $200 a game would they be happy that you loose the ball, or can't keep up with runs because you camera is too slow.

Invest in a good camera, and a even better tripod setup, the hi pod lite is the best bang for your buck, its smooth , less wires and just works awesome, forget the livestream , no body will watch it ( I have a friend that livestreams and he constantly --maybe get 0-3 people)

The hi pod light is what every filming service uses at surf cup, they use it for a reason.
 
I must have missed @SuperSoccerStar's question about whether streaming was really needed or not :).

FWIW, the hipod is vastly overrated and out of date. I've used almost everything out there, and hipod ranks dead last for me. Nobody sticks with it for long. It's expensive, bulky, heavy, and a pain to set up and maintain.
 
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