ECNL-style Super League

Its hilarious when the fans of the European leagues bring up "fair play", "sporting ethos" and the "sporting tradition". Truth is the super teams dominate all the leagues of Europe. Most one sided thing I have ever seen. Its been about the cash for years.

Look at the odds for teams other than the super clubs to win at the beginning of the season and tell me its sporting. In EPL when the sports betting has nearly every club outside the big 6 at such great odds to win do you really think the lower half teams can compete or any of the rich ones will get relegated? Its a complete farce. The sports betting industry which runs in the real world and not the moral high ground would disagree with you.

Have you looked at the last 20 years of CL and EPL champions? Its the same rich clubs over and over again. The one exception was the Foxes in 2015 and their odds to win were 5000-1. All of the Euro leagues are greatly unbalanced in favor of the rich super clubs. Give your head a shake if you think there is any form of sporting ethos involved. It is straight up cash. Sure its technically possible and I can win the lottery too but I don't call that "a sporting chance". When one team spends 80m and another 600m they shouldn't be in the same league.

Oh and don't get me started on how moral FIFA and UEFA are.. three words.. Qatar world cup. They are as shady as they come.

The prize money for winning the super league is sick and you can bet the odds makers want to see another league and more bets on a regular basis. Billionaires gambling even more is what this is.

Champion league is not enough vigorous for some books or clubs to make it worth it anymore, greed runs through it all. Keeping up with the joneses can get very pricey.

 
Its hilarious when the fans of the European leagues bring up "fair play", "sporting ethos" and the "sporting tradition". Truth is the super teams dominate all the leagues of Europe. Most one sided thing I have ever seen. Its been about the cash for years.

Look at the odds for teams other than the super clubs to win at the beginning of the season and tell me its sporting. In EPL when the sports betting has nearly every club outside the big 6 at such great odds to win do you really think the lower half teams can compete or any of the rich ones will get relegated? Its a complete farce. The sports betting industry which runs in the real world and not the moral high ground would disagree with you.

Have you looked at the last 20 years of CL and EPL champions? Its the same rich clubs over and over again. The one exception was the Foxes in 2015 and their odds to win were 5000-1. All of the Euro leagues are greatly unbalanced in favor of the rich super clubs. Give your head a shake if you think there is any form of sporting ethos involved. It is straight up cash. Sure its technically possible and I can win the lottery too but I don't call that "a sporting chance". When one team spends 80m and another 600m they shouldn't be in the same league.

Oh and don't get me started on how moral FIFA and UEFA are.. three words.. Qatar world cup. They are as shady as they come.

Betting lines are an indication of popularity, not team quality.
 
Betting lines are an indication of popularity, not team quality.
Betting lines are true odds backed by money. Those running the numbers have to honor them if their numbers are off they are out of business. It is not popularity it is actuarial and is probably the most accurate indication of team quality.
 
Betting lines are true odds backed by money. Those running the numbers have to honor them if their numbers are off they are out of business. It is not popularity it is actuarial and is probably the most accurate indication of team quality.

You cited a champion whose odds to win were 5000 to 1 - and yet they won.

The objective of the betting houses is to make money, not rate teams in order of quality. The high odds are bait to get bettors to risk money on unpopular teams.
 
You cited a champion whose odds to win were 5000 to 1 - and yet they won.

The objective of the betting houses is to make money, not rate teams in order of quality. The high odds are bait to get bettors to risk money on unpopular teams.
Even progressive jackpots get hit every now and then doesn't mean the odds are wrong. 95% of the time the house wins
 
It looks like you agree with me, although I doubt that you realize it.
guess my point is the everyone is up in arms about relegation and promotion but those rules don't even apply to the teams in the super league. They are in the top league and will never be relegated. If they get close they fire the one over priced manager/ group of players and hire another one. Not much in European football that can't be solved with a truckload of cash. So moot point. I guess if a new Sheik buys Newcastle and drops 600m on players they could work their way up but is that a tradition that needs protecting? What is sporting about that? That is just the EPL.. LaLiga has even worse disparity. I don't know that Europeans really understand what fair or even playing fields even mean.
 
guess my point is the everyone is up in arms about relegation and promotion but those rules don't even apply to the teams in the super league. They are in the top league and will never be relegated. If they get close they fire the one over priced manager/ group of players and hire another one. Not much in European football that can't be solved with a truckload of cash. So moot point. I guess if a new Sheik buys Newcastle and drops 600m on players they could work their way up but is that a tradition that needs protecting? What is sporting about that? That is just the EPL.. LaLiga has even worse disparity. I don't know that Europeans really understand what fair or even playing fields even mean.

Closed league for billionaire owners who want to get a greater percentage of the $$ and more control over the scheduling vs what the Champions league currently provides.

Business decision regarding price money and a platform to play more meaninful games instead of traveling to play lesser squads in the group stages or rounds of 32, etc.

Letting the market decide and not threatening one league or the other like uefa and fifa are doing in a attempt protect there cash cows might be less controversial but what funny would that be in war for more $$.
 
Closed league for billionaire owners who want to get a greater percentage of the $$ and more control over the scheduling vs what the Champions league currently provides.

Business decision regarding price money and a platform to play more meaninful games instead of traveling to play lesser squads in the group stages or rounds of 32, etc.

Letting the market decide and not threatening one league or the other like uefa and fifa are doing in a attempt protect there cash cows might be less controversial but what funny would that be in war for more $$.

Perhaps a glimmer of hope that this situation could be the beginning of the end of the FIFA oligarchy.
 
I have to say that I'm pretty ambivalent about all this "outrage" from all and sundry.
  1. The Premier League was setup as a break away from the Football League in England. There was nothing altruistic about it. It was all about money, plain and simple. Sure there is relegation, but the relegated teams get a huge pot of $ relative to their Championship rivals which gives them an enormous $ injection akin to doping to increase their chances of bouncing back up. The PL complaining that someone wants to break away ... yeah, whatever. The PL loses probably 80% if its revenue of they kick the 6 out IMO.
  2. UEFA has bastardized the European Cup which was for the league champions, home & away knockout, to the Champions League and now to their new format, which basically means some teams (like Bayern who advocated for it) will likely always qualify, even if they have an off year. UEFA is all about $, earned on the back of the clubs. Their revamped comps BTW just mean more games for clubs, meaning bigger squads costing more $ (that they don't have to pay). Do they care about things like player welfare, do they F. Do they care about the $ to the clubs, do they F.
  3. UEFA has nothing. They have no venues, they have no teams, they have sweet F all. They are corrupt, money hungry :mad:. What do they bring to the table for the clubs - a couple of competitions that the clubs can organize themselves and TV/sponsorship deals that the clubs also organize themselves.
  4. Some Euro leagues are patently uncompetitive - actually the reality is most are pretty uncompetitive. The same clubs share the top spots year after year. The complaints that this is about "competition" is nonsense. Leicester is an anomaly. The EPL is the most competitive league because of the money the clubs get, but that $ is only there because you have the Manchester clubs, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal etc. There is zero chance they get any deals like they have today without those clubs. The same for every domestic league and every Euro wide competition.
  5. Fans complain all the time if their club doesn't buy this player, or that player. They complain if their owners don't dip into their pocket to remain at the top table. The outrage in England in particular is hilarious. The clubs make more money from TV and global reach than any local fans. The local money is icing but not the cake. Where does the money come from. Barcelona are in debt of $1B. The 12 clubs have a collective debt of something live $4-5B. WTF do people think is going to happen from a business perspective.
  6. FIFA - a thoroughly crap and corrupt organization if ever there was one - complaining should give everyone pause to consider whether this is a good idea. An org that should be disbanded and buried in the dustbin of history. An org that allowed the WC to go to Qatar - where 6,500 workers have died. Where is FIFA's outrage over that, how many times have they threatened to pull it. FIFA, who are organizing their own Club WC - which clubs do you think they want to suck money out of for that?
  7. Agents have taken $1B out of soccer in the last few years. $1B taken out by agents. What are UEFA & FIFA doing - F all. Sure, they are making some sounds and what not, but, its not $ out of their pocket, so they couldn't give a crap. Suddenly they see a threat to their nest eggs and WOW, its all about integrity of the game ... INTEGRITY from F-ing FIFA or UEFA for that matter.
    1. Just as an example here, look at the Haaland rumors - $150M to buy, agent wants $20M, father wants $20M, he wants to be paid $30M annually NET. How to F do fans think this will get paid for?

I would think JP Morgan did their due diligence and this makes $ sense. These corps have the $ to fight any legal action in court. They can also wrangle huge concessions if they go back.

All the outrage, esp. from orgs that are crapping themselves as the golden geese are leaving ... F them, they are all about the $ (too).
 
I have to say that I'm pretty ambivalent about all this "outrage" from all and sundry.
  1. The Premier League was setup as a break away from the Football League in England. There was nothing altruistic about it. It was all about money, plain and simple. Sure there is relegation, but the relegated teams get a huge pot of $ relative to their Championship rivals which gives them an enormous $ injection akin to doping to increase their chances of bouncing back up. The PL complaining that someone wants to break away ... yeah, whatever. The PL loses probably 80% if its revenue of they kick the 6 out IMO.
  2. UEFA has bastardized the European Cup which was for the league champions, home & away knockout, to the Champions League and now to their new format, which basically means some teams (like Bayern who advocated for it) will likely always qualify, even if they have an off year. UEFA is all about $, earned on the back of the clubs. Their revamped comps BTW just mean more games for clubs, meaning bigger squads costing more $ (that they don't have to pay). Do they care about things like player welfare, do they F. Do they care about the $ to the clubs, do they F.
  3. UEFA has nothing. They have no venues, they have no teams, they have sweet F all. They are corrupt, money hungry :mad:. What do they bring to the table for the clubs - a couple of competitions that the clubs can organize themselves and TV/sponsorship deals that the clubs also organize themselves.
  4. Some Euro leagues are patently uncompetitive - actually the reality is most are pretty uncompetitive. The same clubs share the top spots year after year. The complaints that this is about "competition" is nonsense. Leicester is an anomaly. The EPL is the most competitive league because of the money the clubs get, but that $ is only there because you have the Manchester clubs, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal etc. There is zero chance they get any deals like they have today without those clubs. The same for every domestic league and every Euro wide competition.
  5. Fans complain all the time if their club doesn't buy this player, or that player. They complain if their owners don't dip into their pocket to remain at the top table. The outrage in England in particular is hilarious. The clubs make more money from TV and global reach than any local fans. The local money is icing but not the cake. Where does the money come from. Barcelona are in debt of $1B. The 12 clubs have a collective debt of something live $4-5B. WTF do people think is going to happen from a business perspective.
  6. FIFA - a thoroughly crap and corrupt organization if ever there was one - complaining should give everyone pause to consider whether this is a good idea. An org that should be disbanded and buried in the dustbin of history. An org that allowed the WC to go to Qatar - where 6,500 workers have died. Where is FIFA's outrage over that, how many times have they threatened to pull it. FIFA, who are organizing their own Club WC - which clubs do you think they want to suck money out of for that?
  7. Agents have taken $1B out of soccer in the last few years. $1B taken out by agents. What are UEFA & FIFA doing - F all. Sure, they are making some sounds and what not, but, its not $ out of their pocket, so they couldn't give a crap. Suddenly they see a threat to their nest eggs and WOW, its all about integrity of the game ... INTEGRITY from F-ing FIFA or UEFA for that matter.
    1. Just as an example here, look at the Haaland rumors - $150M to buy, agent wants $20M, father wants $20M, he wants to be paid $30M annually NET. How to F do fans think this will get paid for?

I would think JP Morgan did their due diligence and this makes $ sense. These corps have the $ to fight any legal action in court. They can also wrangle huge concessions if they go back.

All the outrage, esp. from orgs that are crapping themselves as the golden geese are leaving ... F them, they are all about the $ (too).
Very well said. Agree 100%
 
guess my point is the everyone is up in arms about relegation and promotion but those rules don't even apply to the teams in the super league. They are in the top league and will never be relegated. If they get close they fire the one over priced manager/ group of players and hire another one. Not much in European football that can't be solved with a truckload of cash. So moot point. I guess if a new Sheik buys Newcastle and drops 600m on players they could work their way up but is that a tradition that needs protecting? What is sporting about that? That is just the EPL.. LaLiga has even worse disparity. I don't know that Europeans really understand what fair or even playing fields even mean.

Soccereconomics says that's the point for local fans. For the fans of the big clubs, they are pretty much assured watching a victory and their team trounce several also rans, if not the top league in the division. For the little guys, its the thrill of avoiding relegation, or getting promoted. The countries are small enough you can pick your poison.

It's a problem though is soccer has a global reach. The kid watching in Los Angeles or Beijing is going to wear the Real or the Manchester shirt. He's not following Cadiz or (barring the Netflix series) Sheffield United. So of course the local fans hate it...but they aren't the market for the megaclubs.

It works the same way with the NBA in Europe. The kids are buying the Lakers or Golden State t shirts or whoever is the biggest trend at the time. Local fans may buy the Granada t shirt, but there's not much of a market outside of Granada.

The same thing happened to the film industry in the 21st century. The market isn't the United States anymore...it's also China.
 
All the outrage, esp. from orgs that are crapping themselves as the golden geese are leaving ... F them, they are all about the $ (too).

These are all great points, but if you are like me and you would like to see $ go into the lower levels of soccer worldwide, then the superleague is a big step in the wrong direction. I want to reign in the whole system of a few big winners.
 
These are all great points, but if you are like me and you would like to see $ go into the lower levels of soccer worldwide, then the superleague is a big step in the wrong direction. I want to reign in the whole system of a few big winners.

Then you must love the MLS with its joint ownership and salary caps, it's basically an equivalent playing field. Yeah, you have teams that have a run (like Seattle recently) or teams that don't click (like the Galaxy recently) but it's basically parity across the board. There aren't any teams that really can dominate year over year because you can't pour in the money thats needed to dominate. It also makes for fairly mediocre soccer.
 
To me the big problem with this offering is it's just like MLS, it's not really a sport of competition where you earn and keep your place based on results on the field or not. New teams can't promote and existing ones stay no matter what. No regulation or promotion or any qualifications like you need to get into the champions league. Just buy your way in and set for life no matter the results are. This is not really competition but rather a faux way to get a participation trophy.

all it comes down to who has the financial backing to participate just like MLS, nothing else plain and simple like a rich person's fight club.

What's funny is now the Europeans are getting a taste of what we have to deal all the time with in the USA with our closed off owner driven systems in place like MLS. We should all protest MLS, SUM and they rest who have been and still do the exact same things.
 
To me the big problem with this offering is it's just like MLS, it's not really a sport of competition where you earn and keep your place based on results on the field or not. New teams can't promote and existing ones stay no matter what. No regulation or promotion or any qualifications like you need to get into the champions league. Just buy your way in and set for life no matter the results are. This is not really competition but rather a faux way to get a participation trophy.

all it comes down to who has the financial backing to participate just like MLS, nothing else plain and simple like a rich person's fight club.

What's funny is now the Europeans are getting a taste of what we have to deal all the time with in the USA with our closed off owner driven systems in place like MLS. We should all protest MLS, SUM and they rest who have been and still do the exact same things.

The MLS is very different. It's not only a closed league but it's also a joint ownership. What's kept the fundamentals working to date is the constant buy in by new owners for new teams, which keeps it functioning a bit like a pyramid scheme. Add in salary caps and transfer payment limitations and basically what you have is a league of roughly equal parity across the board.

As others have said, how likely are the big 6 EPL clubs or the big 3 La Liga clubs going to face relegation?
 
These are all great points, but if you are like me and you would like to see $ go into the lower levels of soccer worldwide, then the superleague is a big step in the wrong direction. I want to reign in the whole system of a few big winners.
But they are all businesses, not charities. Why should any of the big 12, who earn their own money, who take their own risks, who have large debts to service, help or care about any other team in any other league?

This is the entertainment business, pure and simple. They are selling entertainment via sport. Should a big Hollywood studio be forced to give money to a small studio in Boise, Idaho, to 'support" local movie making?
 
Why should any of the big 12, who earn their own money, who take their own risks, who have large debts to service, help or care about any other team in any other league?

Because without other teams in other leagues they will have precisely fuck-all for player development. Who buys a Dani Carvajal jersey????? Barca being $1B in debt, look, I'm sorry, but maybe don't be spending $120M each on Coutinho and Griezmann. "We have to do this to ensure our financial situation", fuck off, if Messi says he won't play for a super league club then this thing is over before it starts.
 
Breaking news! Chelsea is pulling out. Man U is making a U turn. The fans have spoken!!! Why cant parents do the same in Socal. Allow ECNL to include teams that are in inner cities. Why is everything in the South OC. You take a team from the inner city and they will crush plenty of South OC teams. Get ECNL and DA to be one league and get a couple of inner city clubs to join.
 
As others have said, how likely are the big 6 EPL clubs or the big 3 La Liga clubs going to face relegation?
Not much. But lets take a look.

Atletico Madrid: Since 1928 they have played in the 2nd league for a total of 6 seasons. 4 of those seasons were in the early 30s.
Real Madrid: Since 1928 never relegated
Barcelona: It looks like 1 time in the 30s.

Juventus: 1 time since 1929
AC Milan: 3 times since 1929
Inter Milan: Never

Man U: Last time they were not in the top division was the mid 30s
Man City: They have been up and down a fair amount. However last time was 2001
Arsenal: Last time they were not in the top league was 1914
Chelsea: 9 times since 1929. The last being 1988
Tottenham: A lot of seasons in Div 2. However the last time was in the 1977
Liverpool: Since 1904 8 seasons in Div 2. The last time was 1961
 
Back
Top