CSL Strong???

D

dreamz

SILVER ELITE
It's never good when you have to come out and address rumors although I haven't heard any rumors like the ones they are addressing so what's up?

COAST SOCCER LEAGUE - STRONG AND THRIVING!

It has been brought to CSL's attention that there are some rumors being spread about the viability of Coast Soccer League. CSL is as strong as ever, and will continue to grow and help all our elite Clubs and teams grow and succeed. There are 185 Clubs participating in CSL, and we have new Clubs joining us for the 2021-22 season. The reason CSL is one of the most competitive youth leagues in the country is because of the strong support of the Clubs participating in the League, and the highly skilled talented players the Clubs and their coaches develop. Everything we do is to help promote your Clubs and your players. Teams that play in Coast continue to compete at the highest levels, and succeed. Clubs continue to develop skilled players, who go on to play for their High School, College, MLS, NWSL, and National teams.


COAST SOCCER LEAGUE is here to help players wanting to go to the next level, and Clubs wanting a gaming circuit that supports their vision, and works in partnership with them.


CSL STRONG!
 
dreamz said:
It's never good when you have to come out and address rumors although I haven't heard any rumors like the ones they are addressing so what's up?

COAST SOCCER LEAGUE - STRONG AND THRIVING!

It has been brought to CSL's attention that there are some rumors being spread about the viability of Coast Soccer League. CSL is as strong as ever, and will continue to grow and help all our elite Clubs and teams grow and succeed. There are 185 Clubs participating in CSL, and we have new Clubs joining us for the 2021-22 season. The reason CSL is one of the most competitive youth leagues in the country is because of the strong support of the Clubs participating in the League, and the highly skilled talented players the Clubs and their coaches develop. Everything we do is to help promote your Clubs and your players. Teams that play in Coast continue to compete at the highest levels, and succeed. Clubs continue to develop skilled players, who go on to play for their High School, College, MLS, NWSL, and National teams.


COAST SOCCER LEAGUE is here to help players wanting to go to the next level, and Clubs wanting a gaming circuit that supports their vision, and works in partnership with them.


CSL STRONG!
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CSL has 148 clubs. https://www.coastsoccer.com/page/show/1327040-clubs

SCDSL has 114 clubs. http://scdslsoccer.com/club-directory Most of those appear to be the same 5 clubs.

It isn't so much that CSL is losing clubs, exactly. The Mega clubs in SCDSL are continually expanding their footprint. Individually, many of the clubs in CSL are losing battles to the encroachment of larger clubs. It feels like Walmart destroying a small town economy.

This has been going on for a while, though. I'm not really sure what SCDSL offers, as a league, that CSL doesn't. More teams can mean slightly less travel if you are in the beach areas (where the mega clubs really thrive). Other than that, CSL has enough critical mass for great competition within its brackets. It looks to me like CSL has its market segment cut out, more or less, and does allow for great competition and development, certainly no worse than SCDSL does after 7th grade.

Here's a hot take: SCDSL isn't even the best place for competitive play and development according to the clubs that formed it. Not trusting the level of competition and development within SCDSL, by the time they reach 7th grade, they have instead moved their A and B teams to ECNL and DA or GA....
 
notintheface said:
The lack of pro/rel for kids.

Why Coast can't wake up and make this change is just beyond me. Let coaches figure out where their teams should be playing, don't force winning at the youngers ages.
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I am not sure how much better SCDSL youngers teams are about not focusing on winning. It really depends on the coach. Only the rarest of coaches is going to give up a victory to play their subs or to create a learning moment.

Also, F3 team that "focused on development" and lost all games last year, still gonna be F3 this year. I think it really is more about mega clubs protecting their investment. They need to promise flights to sell to parents. Kind of like how MLS doesn't have prom/rel to protect investors.

Promotion/Relegation looks great at the older ages, though. SCDSL's flight 1 after 7th grade is completely unpredictable in terms of competition level.
 
notintheface said:
The lack of pro/rel for kids.

Why Coast can't wake up and make this change is just beyond me. Let coaches figure out where their teams should be playing, don't force winning at the youngers ages.
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could not disagree more. although the pro/rel csl offers has a fair amt of politics, if a team wins their group, they move up.

single best way to support a wide variety of smaller clubs that serve a wide variety of players while also holding larger clubs accountable.

US soccer overall would be way stronger if the top leagues operated in same way, and worked w/ leagues like CSL to provide team-based access to high quality teams from smaller clubs (eg, Olympiakos from CSL 05)
 
Kante said:
could not disagree more. although the pro/rel csl offers has a fair amt of politics, if a team wins their group, they move up.

single best way to support a wide variety of smaller clubs that serve a wide variety of players while also holding larger clubs accountable.

US soccer overall would be way stronger if the top leagues operated in same way, and worked w/ leagues like CSL to provide team-based access to high quality teams from smaller clubs (eg, Olympiakos from CSL 05)
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It has some unintended side effects though:

-At the early ages, coaches are focused on winning because the club needs multiple teams on multiple levels in order to recruit parents.
-Focusing on winning means picking the tallest and fastest kids, usually close to the age line, early bloomers. It's no surprise the kids around age 10-12 on flight 1 gold teams are unusually tall for their age.
-It also means short cutting development. Don't do dangerous stuff like teaching kids who don't know how to pass well yet to pass it backwards. Play it long, have the keeper punt, get the big legged kids to goalkick or boot the ball from the defensive 1/3
-Talent isn't distributed evenly. It means on the teams that advance the weaker kids will be dropped in order to recruit upgrades (which will now come to the team because of the upgrade). It means other teams lose their stronger players because they are recruited to higher level teams. There's no "dance with the one that brung you" rule, which means moving up is vitally important at the early ages (by any means necessary) if the coach is going to maintain some stability.
-The flights as a result become gatekeepers to recruitment for later play (whether pro, college, or higher teams) since it's very hard for a player to jump from a bronze/flight 3 to an ENCL team in 1 swoop.

To the extent we want to protect late bloomers, or put less of an emphasis on soccer on winning, pro/rel is not a good system, particularly in the early years.

Switching to self-selection also has some bad side effects namely at the expense of the smaller regional clubs that manage to put squads of friends together since they'll be going now against bigger clubs with bigger resources (so shopping becomes less about level and more about what fields and staff does the club furnish). You'll also at the earlier ages get teams blown out 12-0 since self-selection isn't perfect, the pressure from parents will be to play higher, and people engage in wishful thinking, leading to a dilution of competition.
 
Grace T. said:
It has some unintended side effects though:

-At the early ages, coaches are focused on winning because the club needs multiple teams on multiple levels in order to recruit parents.
-Focusing on winning means picking the tallest and fastest kids, usually close to the age line, early bloomers. It's no surprise the kids around age 10-12 on flight 1 gold teams are unusually tall for their age.
-It also means short cutting development. Don't do dangerous stuff like teaching kids who don't know how to pass well yet to pass it backwards. Play it long, have the keeper punt, get the big legged kids to goalkick or boot the ball from the defensive 1/3
-Talent isn't distributed evenly. It means on the teams that advance the weaker kids will be dropped in order to recruit upgrades (which will now come to the team because of the upgrade). It means other teams lose their stronger players because they are recruited to higher level teams. There's no "dance with the one that brung you" rule, which means moving up is vitally important at the early ages (by any means necessary) if the coach is going to maintain some stability.
-The flights as a result become gatekeepers to recruitment for later play (whether pro, college, or higher teams) since it's very hard for a player to jump from a bronze/flight 3 to an ENCL team in 1 swoop.

To the extent we want to protect late bloomers, or put less of an emphasis on soccer on winning, pro/rel is not a good system, particularly in the early years.

Switching to self-selection also has some bad side effects namely at the expense of the smaller regional clubs that manage to put squads of friends together since they'll be going now against bigger clubs with bigger resources (so shopping becomes less about level and more about what fields and staff does the club furnish). You'll also at the earlier ages get teams blown out 12-0 since self-selection isn't perfect, the pressure from parents will be to play higher, and people engage in wishful thinking, leading to a dilution of competition.
Click to expand...

Focus on winning to have teams playing in higher Flight: Check.
Not passing the ball backwards, instead playing it long: Check.
Weaker kids being dropped/pushed to lower team: Check.
Discriminating against lower flight players at higher flights: Check.

My DD has experienced every problem you describe here in the context of SCDSL clubs. Found room to grow at a CSL club that punches above its weight.

And the fields are better too.
 
Woodwork said:
Focus on winning to have teams playing in higher Flight: Check.
Not passing the ball backwards, instead playing it long: Check.
Weaker kids being dropped/pushed to lower team: Check.
Discriminating against lower flight players at higher flights: Check.

My DD has experienced every problem you describe here in the context of SCDSL clubs. Found room to grow at a CSL club that punches above its weight.

And the fields are better too.
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The travel in csl is horrible but the quality of boys teams is very good and probably better than most flight 1 teams. On the girls side I would say scdsl has a better pool of talented girls.
 
Woodwork said:
Also, F3 team that "focused on development" and lost all games last year, still gonna be F3 this year.
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You're taking the extreme example. F3 team that focused on development and came in midtable is probably good enough for F2. Under Coast rules that's never going to happen and a team that is only good enough for let's say 4th place in bronze is doomed to stay in bronze for probably at least 3 years while the teams above them move up. That is a giant shit sandwich and half the reason why there's churn in Coast.
 
Kante said:
if a team wins their group
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9 year olds do not need to be worrying about this at all, period. Learn to connect a pass from a defender to a midfielder without the worry of shipping a goal because of a wayward pass. Reward the kid for trying the idea, don't punish the entire goddamned team for the typical 9-year-old mis-hit pass.
 
Woodwork said:
Found room to grow at a CSL club that punches above its weight.
Click to expand...

Again-- ask yourself what your statement would be if this team played a good game but was unable to crack the top two places. At the youngers level pro/rel makes absolutely zero sense. You could have your primary goalscorer break his/her arm and your season is sunk and you can't move up. Make that make sense for me.
 
Grace T. said:
It has some unintended side effects though:

-At the early ages, coaches are focused on winning because the club needs multiple teams on multiple levels in order to recruit parents.
-Focusing on winning means picking the tallest and fastest kids, usually close to the age line, early bloomers. It's no surprise the kids around age 10-12 on flight 1 gold teams are unusually tall for their age.
-It also means short cutting development. Don't do dangerous stuff like teaching kids who don't know how to pass well yet to pass it backwards. Play it long, have the keeper punt, get the big legged kids to goalkick or boot the ball from the defensive 1/3
-Talent isn't distributed evenly. It means on the teams that advance the weaker kids will be dropped in order to recruit upgrades (which will now come to the team because of the upgrade). It means other teams lose their stronger players because they are recruited to higher level teams. There's no "dance with the one that brung you" rule, which means moving up is vitally important at the early ages (by any means necessary) if the coach is going to maintain some stability.
-The flights as a result become gatekeepers to recruitment for later play (whether pro, college, or higher teams) since it's very hard for a player to jump from a bronze/flight 3 to an ENCL team in 1 swoop.

To the extent we want to protect late bloomers, or put less of an emphasis on soccer on winning, pro/rel is not a good system, particularly in the early years.

Switching to self-selection also has some bad side effects namely at the expense of the smaller regional clubs that manage to put squads of friends together since they'll be going now against bigger clubs with bigger resources (so shopping becomes less about level and more about what fields and staff does the club furnish). You'll also at the earlier ages get teams blown out 12-0 since self-selection isn't perfect, the pressure from parents will be to play higher, and people engage in wishful thinking, leading to a dilution of competition.
Click to expand...
This is being sold by the larger clubs. Rarely does this happen. I've seen plenty of smaller teams with skillful players beat the more athletic teams. Generally - the teams that do well have a balance of skill players and athletic players. Without pro/rel, all the power is with the coach and clubs. The hard working players and families don't have a voice and are forced to go to big clubs if they want to play against better competition. Playing local and supporting local clubs is as important as supporting small businesses but we as a society are giving in to these big corp or clubs because they make up "super leagues" that they place themselves in without pro or rel.

Smaller skilled players that get knocked off the ball while they are young and can't hang with the bigger/faster players SHOULD play in lower flights to continue to develop their skills. Nothing wrong with playing at a lower level to allow yourself space and time to develop until you're not knocked off the ball anymore.

Teams don't come in last in their league because of one or two or three mistakes. They come in last generally because they are playing in divisions too high for them and a year in the lower level will help them develop better or build more confidence. I'm sure you can find one example that counters this but the majority is correct.

If we teach our kids to keep score and try to win tournaments, why are we shielding them from pro/rel?
 
Emma said:
Teams don't come in last in their league because of one or two or three mistakes.
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You're talking about last place. Ignore that-- talk about the third place team that plays great soccer but the top two teams have Rayden Smith and Raiden Martinez, who score every time they touch the ball. You're going to screw over this third place team for a year at least when -- especially at the youngers -- they should move up and be playing harder competition to get better faster.
 
notintheface said:
You're talking about last place. Ignore that-- talk about the third place team that plays great soccer but the top two teams have Rayden Smith and Raiden Martinez, who score every time they touch the ball. You're going to screw over this third place team for a year at least when -- especially at the youngers -- they should move up and be playing harder competition to get better faster.
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Gives them another year to develop better defense. How are you screwing them? They obviously haven't figured out how to stop one player defensively yet so why do they have to move up? What's the necessity in it?
 
I can only judge the 05 division, but very little difference between 05 Discovery and 05 Premier on the girls side.

One of the teams that was in our division 1.5 years ago finished last in gold, no wins. They were going to drop to Silver Elite. They jumped to SCDSL Flight 1. They are 3-3 this year.

Playing national cup right now. Two teams from 05 Discovery lead their division and should win out. Two teams from 05 Premier lead their division and should win out. Tudela leads the 5th division, should win out. All well matched.
 
notintheface said:
You're talking about last place. Ignore that-- talk about the third place team that plays great soccer but the top two teams have Rayden Smith and Raiden Martinez, who score every time they touch the ball. You're going to screw over this third place team for a year at least when -- especially at the youngers -- they should move up and be playing harder competition to get better faster.
Click to expand...
3rd place teams can and do move up frequently. Our club an example a few years back.
 
Emma said:
This is being sold by the larger clubs. Rarely does this happen. I've seen plenty of smaller teams with skillful players beat the more athletic teams. Generally - the teams that do well have a balance of skill players and athletic players. Without pro/rel, all the power is with the coach and clubs. The hard working players and families don't have a voice and are forced to go to big clubs if they want to play against better competition. Playing local and supporting local clubs is as important as supporting small businesses but we as a society are giving in to these big corp or clubs because they make up "super leagues" that they place themselves in without pro or rel.

Smaller skilled players that get knocked off the ball while they are young and can't hang with the bigger/faster players SHOULD play in lower flights to continue to develop their skills. Nothing wrong with playing at a lower level to allow yourself space and time to develop until you're not knocked off the ball anymore.

Teams don't come in last in their league because of one or two or three mistakes. They come in last generally because they are playing in divisions too high for them and a year in the lower level will help them develop better or build more confidence. I'm sure you can find one example that counters this but the majority is correct.

If we teach our kids to keep score and try to win tournaments, why are we shielding them from pro/rel?
Click to expand...
At the younger ages it takes only 1 or 2 players to make a real impact on the teams record. If those 1 or 2 players get recruited for a bigger club the team will languish and have to rebuild. If the team doesn’t have that 1 or 2 players they can’t advance.

part of the advice which came out from the us soccer development was that kids should not be taught to keep score and win tournaments because it affects the learning process. It causes coaches to take the short cut to get the win rather than develop their players. When recruitment is a more important skill in a coach than actually teaching the game then there’s a problem.

the issue really is the flights were never intended as a tier system. Their function is just so teams don’t get blown out 12-0. But they’ve become gate keepers for higher flights, college and pro. To move up you have to play for a higher level team. To develop you need the higher level competition. And it’s almost impossible for a very skilled flight 3 kid to make an immediate jump to mls next.
 
Emma said:
Gives them another year to develop better defense. How are you screwing them? They obviously haven't figured out how to stop one player defensively yet so why do they have to move up? What's the necessity in it?
Click to expand...
The issue here is that placement should be by skill level of the individual athlete not the team. The team isn’t a going concern...it’s an ephemeral thing with just the name of the club...the coach or players may shift in or out. The defense might not be ready but the striker or goalkeeper might. The remedy then is that striker or goalkeeper will leave which leads to the tryout circus season and club hopping we all bemoan. Meanwhile that team now needs to start over and find a new striker or goalkeeper
 
There's politics in csl like any other league...I know of a team that lost every game in a season and moved up the next....my understanding is that top 2-3 teams move up and bottom teams move down...middles team stay..and it wasn't that there was no room for them in other brackets..teams that had much better season stayed in their bracket without moving up..
 
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