Many? Name three.
Concussions and who is looking out for the kid.
- Thread starter socalkdg
- Start date
Many? Name three.
dk_b
GOLD
You are doubting this? I can name at least 6 but I'm not going to do that, obviously. If it were my kid's doctor, I'd take issue with him or her. And if it is a club I'm involved with, I will talk with the right person and escalate as necessary - coach, manager, board, etc. Easy enough to talk with parents on the sideline about kids who were diagnosed with concussions and returned to play as soon as the obvious symptoms subsided - usually the headache - you see it all the time, just as you see kids removed with an obvious head issue only to see them returned to play w/o medical clearance (that happened to my own kid when she suffered her first (mild) concussion - she was playing in Europe and I watched a terrible live stream so could not really see what was happening and could not do anything about it in the moment. She self-reported being fine (as athletes do) and was allowed back on. That should not have happened and it has been discussed). It used to be the protocol to return to play when obvious symptoms clear - 24 hrs w/o a headache? You are cleared to play! Fortunately, in CA for athletes 17yo and younger, it is no longer the case. Even the anecdote above, other than the bragging, is not that uncommon. Or do you doubt that story, too?
(even with the mild concussion, going to a Dr who really specializes in this area will reveal more than is obvious to indicate a brain injury. It also is reassuring when the Dr puts the child through the same exam and you can see how the brain has recovered by the child's performance in the exam)
dk_b
GOLD
And I will add: I'm just a guy. If I can name 3 or 6 or just 1, it is too many and likely representative. I don't consider my experience or observations unique. And just like you guys in SoCal are around some of the best medical care and innovative medical thinking, so are we in NorCal with the research coming out of UCSF, Stanford, etc. And, still, the protocols are not always followed as the law requires
So far you have named none. If you have real evidence of this, of course, you shouldn't be posting it here anyway. You should present your evidence to the doctors' employers and/or the relevant licensing boards.
The Ghost of Johan Cruyff
BRONZE
after everything, he said that is what you are worried about? A throwaway line that in context he was inferring that *gasp* doctors are fallible just like everyone else. You are missing the point or at the very least you are distracting from it.
What I read from this is what I'm taking issue with as well....there is a protocol put in place, into law actually, that every adult that engages in youth sports is required to pass a class which teaches you how to handle these situations. So, just to simply since its a soccer forum. The state made rules of a game. They taught participants how to play the game. Participants don't play by the rules. It's like playing soccer with your hands. Except we are talking kids and long term damage to their brain. But since he used a common qualitative statement you dismiss the message? Looks like you are the one that isn't contributing anything worthwhile.
dk_b
GOLD
This is a weird discussion to have. Parents on a bulletin board sharing information. Asking questions. Etc. If I have "real evidence" I should be doing X or Y and not doing A and B? You have no idea what I may be doing and what I may not be doing. You obviously don't believe me but my guess is that if there are 10 folks following this discussion, nearly all of them would have an example - their own kid, their kid's teammate or clubmate, a friend's kid - of someone returning to play from a diagnosed concussion w/o following the required protocol. And my hope is the same as with kids I know and have watched - that they suffer no further injury.
outside!
DA
I do not doubt you at all, but in my personnel experience every player that I have seen taken out of a game due to the concussion protocol has followed the protocol.
With youth amateur sports, when no money is involved, safety should always be the first, second and third priority. You can't develop players if they are getting injured constantly. Luckily, all the players I have known, folllowed protocal and some were forced to stay out longer than parents and player wanted but followed their doctor's timeline.
dk_b
GOLD
That's good to know. These are two papers on higher level athletes - community college and college - so not entirely relevant except for the "human nature" element. Both describe substantial non-compliance. So unless I am to believe that these are not representative of the profession, it is easy to imagine "many" physicians/health care professionals (like CATs) tasked with providing care/clearance are not doing so in compliance (and it is important to note that I am saying "many" and not "most" - though in the community college paper, only 18% of trainers ("trainers" at the collegiate level include MDs) were in full compliance):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4851134/: “However, only 18% of ATs at CCCAA institutions were in compliance with all of their concussion policies.”
https://www.chronicle.com/article/Many-Athletes-Receive-Little/149545: “The findings, published on Tuesday in The American Journal of Sports Medicine, suggest that dozens of institutions may not be in compliance with the concussion policy set forth by the National Collegiate Athletic Association”.
But @espola may still think I am full of shit. That's fine. I can accept that. To others (like the person posting yesterday), be vigilant and don't assume that a Dr clearance letter is, by itself, in compliance with what is required or that the Dr actually knows that she/he may not be following the law.
oh canada
GOLD
serious subject, but this line made me chuckle. we've been with teams with 5 or 6 of these "team know it all parents". having only one would feel like a vacation. Recently, I heard AC (head coach of UCLA women) incredulously discussing the number of parents who sit and intensely watch practices (olders, not 8 year olds). "When did that become a thing?", I think was her exact quote.
In Canada, parents hang at the ice arena because it's warmer inside than out. In SoCal, the beach is open 24/7. Here's a reminder about what youth sports is supposed to be all about:
outside!
DA
That became a thing when the commute to practice became long and gas became expensive. Until my players could drive, I would stay at the field. I would walk, ride my bike or play disc golf for the beginning of practice, but I would usually watch the end of practice when they were scrimmaging.
The long commute to practice is usually voluntary.
Does "throwaway line" mean that you didn't intend it to be taken seriously? If so, I'll keep that in mind in the future.
outside!
DA
That is true. We voluntarily endured a long commute so that our players could play on teams that were the best fit for them at the time. Without the long commute, my daughter would not have been able to play one of the two best teams in her age group in the county. Without playing on a that team, I doubt she would be playing D1 soccer. I would also add to my previous comment. With the amount of money we pay for club soccer and the documented cases of coaches mistreating players, I am surprised more parents don't attend practice.
If you need examples of a “throw away line” read 99% of your posts!
If I didn't attend practices a few years ago my dd would be in a heap of trouble today emotionally. I would tell AC it became a thing when the DA allowed unqualified coaches to yell and scream at 12 & 13 year olds. I at first dropped her off and I would go look at the waves. However, when your dd starts to tell you things being said at practices by a crazy coach who manipulates little girls, PaPa Bear has to step in. I don't have one bit of second guessing my decision to stay and watch and eventually confront said abusers. These clowns said If I were to leave the Club my dd would be a marked player never to be recruited by YNT or colleges. Well, we shall see about that boys
oh canada
GOLD
it's one thing to watch the first part of practice then return for the last 15-20 mins of practice for pickup. And, another thing if you have suspicions of abusive behavior. But that's not what AC was referring to...she was talking about the parents we all know/see who watch every minute of every practice of their 11-15 year olds, cringing on each mistake their kid makes, twitching in their chair each time their kid gets the ball...every practice, every minute, 3-4x/week. I venture to say those are also the team "know it all" parents. Little do they know that they would be much happier not watching so intensely and their kids will perform/develop better too.If I didn't attend practices a few years ago my dd would be in a heap of trouble today emotionally. I would tell AC it became a thing when the DA allowed unqualified coaches to yell and scream at 12 & 13 year olds. I at first dropped her off and I would go look at the waves. However, when your dd starts to tell you things being said at practices by a crazy coach who manipulates little girls, PaPa Bear has to step in. I don't have one bit of second guessing my decision to stay and watch and eventually confront said abusers. These clowns said If I were to leave the Club my dd would be a marked player never to be recruited by YNT or colleges. Well, we shall see about that boys
OK, thanks for correction. I have mixed personalities and I do get triggered sometimes from the past. I can say with great joy that I drop her off and come back 2 hours later because of a healthy environment. I never watch practice and I do know who she is referring to. It all comes down to who you're dropping your kid off too
Keepermom2
GOLD
If I see my daughter get up and fall and get up and fall after taking a hit like you described, I would immediately take her to the hospital to be checked out and so the coach wouldn't have the opportunity to put her back in.