Can non AYSO/club teams scrimmage AYSO/club teams?

K

Kyrios Lesous

BRONZE
Hi! Some friends and I have a crew of boys (2009-2011) that play in various futsal and/or pick-up settings. We're mulling the idea of reaching out to local AYSO and club teams (Strikers, Pats, Surf, etc.) to see if they'd be open to the occasional scrimmage. Does anyone know if there are any rules/legal issues that would prohibit us from doing so? Any insight would be much appreciate!

KL
 
Pretty sure you can scrimmage anyone you want. As long as you have the field permit. And also a good idea to make sure everyone has a medical release on file in case of injury.
But if someone gets hurt and wants to sue, there’s probably a lot to worry about.
 
timbuck said:
Pretty sure you can scrimmage anyone you want. As long as you have the field permit. And also a good idea to make sure everyone has a medical release on file in case of injury.
But if someone gets hurt and wants to sue, there’s probably a lot to worry about.
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Appreciate it Tim! Thanks :)
 
timbuck said:
Pretty sure you can scrimmage anyone you want. As long as you have the field permit. And also a good idea to make sure everyone has a medical release on file in case of injury.
But if someone gets hurt and wants to sue, there’s probably a lot to worry about.
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Shouldn’t be an issue but be careful of who you choose to scrimmage because that’s how players are scouted, recruited and poached! My niece was recruited away from her local AYSO team after she participated in a scrimmage game against her current club team... not saying it’s going to happen but it happens more often than not.
 
Tiredsoccerparent said:
Shouldn’t be an issue but be careful of who you choose to scrimmage because that’s how players are scouted, recruited and poached! My niece was recruited away from her local AYSO team after she participated in a scrimmage game against her current club team... not saying it’s going to happen but it happens more often than not.
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Thanks for the heads-up! We might just poach some of theirs! ;)
 
AYSO teams have a Date they must abid bye to begin practicing as a team. To prevent "head starts" etc. They can play,,but they dont want the teams being "coached" until official seasonal start dates. . Ive seen great progress in AYSO united teams. over the past 2 years. I can easily see them being in top brackets going forward. In fact, based on what i seen as a Referee,,,,,,,, they already have some of the better athletes. Technical IQ slacks a little bit,,but i think with the social media , cheaper training clinics, and freebies, OVERPRICED soccer clubs are scared to play the low=cost clubs. They get exposed.
 
RuffRef said:
AYSO teams have a Date they must abid bye to begin practicing as a team. To prevent "head starts" etc. They can play,,but they dont want the teams being "coached" until official seasonal start dates. . Ive seen great progress in AYSO united teams. over the past 2 years. I can easily see them being in top brackets going forward. In fact, based on what i seen as a Referee,,,,,,,, they already have some of the better athletes. Technical IQ slacks a little bit,,but i think with the social media , cheaper training clinics, and freebies, OVERPRICED soccer clubs are scared to play the low=cost clubs. They get exposed.
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Normal fall/core AYSO is terrible skill wise. Extra is hit and miss. AYSO united has some very good teams.
I reffed some core games this fall. It was really, really bad.I also ref Extra games. Extra can vary from so so teams to teams that would clobber a decent tier 3 team.
My daughters team played some United teams this fall. There were some that were not very good and some that were excellent.
 
To get a field permit, you'll typically need proof of insurance if you are taking one out from a school district or parks and rec. An alternative is to go to a rented facility (like a professional indoor soccer place or futsal court) but they'll require everyone (including the visiting team) sign waivers and sometimes also require insurance if it's a scrimmage.

AYSO United is year round. There are a few reasons the teams are competitive, especially in the early ages. First, because they combine several regions to pick from, they'll generally have a large pool of talented players from which to recruit. Second, the way the try out tests are structured they tend to favor athletes-who-can-be-coached into soccer players. At the earlier ages it gives an edge since a lot of younger soccer on smaller fields is really about who can get to the ball fastest. Third, and YMMV, in part because many teams come up from Extras (which is all about tournament play and trophies), and in part because they have a chip on their shoulders about being "just AYSO" teams, they tend to put a premium on winning, and they'll make choices that may give them an edge on winning but not necessarily be optimal for player development long term (again YMMV).

AYSO teams also have certain limitations on who they can scrimmage. They have to be either non-core AYSO teams, or if they are United, clubs from their league. I'm sure there are some who bend the rules, but a coach could get in trouble for playing a non-sanctioned team (e.g. Mexican league) without permission from the local club director. Same goes for playing on a field without a field permit.

For club teams, it depends on the rules of the local org.
 
Sure. Many clubs love playing AYSO clubs, especially to beat them up and poach their kids. AYSO dads all about showing how good they are at coaching and want to lineup games for them and all their other soccer dad coach buddies. In the end, the dads figured out AYSO vids don’t make them very good and feel worse when parents start asking “What happened to Lil Billy Baller?”. Oh he got poached by the club we just played.
 
Not_that_Serious said:
Sure. Many clubs love playing AYSO clubs, especially to beat them up and poach their kids. AYSO dads all about showing how good they are at coaching and want to lineup games for them and all their other soccer dad coach buddies. In the end, the dads figured out AYSO vids don’t make them very good and feel worse when parents start asking “What happened to Lil Billy Baller?”. Oh he got poached by the club we just played.
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It happens a lot!
 
Tiredsoccerparent said:
It happens a lot!
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I know. I’ve heard many DOCs and admins at clubs A) tell coaches they had to scout AYSO games B) tell coaches not to turn down AYSO coaches for scrimmages C) talk “friendly” to AYSO coaches and email them to shoot the shit and send them “cool videos” of training ideas to “help” them D) tell coaches to praise AYSO coaches to boost their egos E) offer other games in order to get in front of AYSO parents. Like watching to Catch a Predator. just about gaining trust...then left with a raped roster.
 
Not_that_Serious said:
just about gaining trust...then left with a raped roster.
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AYSO Core teams reform every year and AYSO has a system for making them balanced so it's hard to keep a team together year over year. There are also strict limitations on who they can train with and where (though I don't doubt some coaches ignore the rules without the knowledge of the region leadership). But in the end, a Core coach doesn't have much to lose as he/she isn't going to hold onto his team more than a year.

Same with Extras. Extras reforms every year with tryouts and no one is guaranteed to continue on the team (though some regions bend the rules more than others). Extras additionally is now more of a stepping stone for passing on players up to United. Again, a coach doesn't have much to lose since they aren't holding onto the team more than a year.

United teams have become so competitive (particularly at the younger ages) that the OP might worry about United poaching his players.

Where the vulnerability is with Select/All Star teams. The coaches there haven't had the reality check yet to know they aren't all that and don't know that much (YMMV...I know this is a huge generalization) yet are carrying an ego knowing they made Select/All Stars. The players there tend to be those with some ability (or at a minimum athletic since these teams tend to be made up of all strikers...again YMMV). The coaches there may also harbor the ambition of moving the team over to club and leading it themselves. They also generally have more leeway with playing outside the AYSO system since if they get in trouble, the only thing that happens to the coach is not getting selected for Extras and United (and if they have their eye already outside the door then it's no big loss for them).
 
Grace T. said:
AYSO Core teams reform every year and AYSO has a system for making them balanced so it's hard to keep a team together year over year. There are also strict limitations on who they can train with and where (though I don't doubt some coaches ignore the rules without the knowledge of the region leadership). But in the end, a Core coach doesn't have much to lose as he/she isn't going to hold onto his team more than a year.

Same with Extras. Extras reforms every year with tryouts and no one is guaranteed to continue on the team (though some regions bend the rules more than others). Extras additionally is now more of a stepping stone for passing on players up to United. Again, a coach doesn't have much to lose since they aren't holding onto the team more than a year.

United teams have become so competitive (particularly at the younger ages) that the OP might worry about United poaching his players.

Where the vulnerability is with Select/All Star teams. The coaches there haven't had the reality check yet to know they aren't all that and don't know that much (YMMV...I know this is a huge generalization) yet are carrying an ego knowing they made Select/All Stars. The players there tend to be those with some ability (or at a minimum athletic since these teams tend to be made up of all strikers...again YMMV). The coaches there may also harbor the ambition of moving the team over to club and leading it themselves. They also generally have more leeway with playing outside the AYSO system since if they get in trouble, the only thing that happens to the coach is not getting selected for Extras and United (and if they have their eye already outside the door then it's no big loss for them).
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Given how the teams turnover every year (new coaches who haven’t gone through the scrimmage con), it makes it easier to pluck the kids - so most kids never make it to the last step at United. That is why most of the United teams are not very good and you get gaps in the age groups. Also not many good coaches at United clubs - that is just the reality and parents/kids leave. Some of the better teams tend to come out of Latino communities where teams do stay together and have coaches who have played soccer at higher levels. Whatever “limitations”are in place are ignored by Super Soccer Dad AYSO coach who has dreams of playing with the big boys. AYSO markets and targets the novice players Heavily in order to make up the numbers they know they will lose - worse now given the issue of how bad our national team is doing and not exciting kids to want to ask to play soccer. This affects soccer at all levels as number dwindle, no development going on - just have to look at CSL and SCDSL play level to see how watered down play is at the moment. Orgs at lower have to implement real change in atmosphere, in development and educate parents about the nonsense - because what is going on isn’t helping anyone. At some point going to really not going to be anyone to poach except at higher levels
 
Not_that_Serious said:
Given how the teams turnover every year (new coaches who haven’t gone through the scrimmage con), it makes it easier to pluck the kids - so most kids never make it to the last step at United. That is why most of the United teams are not very good and you get gaps in the age groups. Also not many good coaches at United clubs - that is just the reality and parents/kids leave. Some of the better teams tend to come out of Latino communities where teams do stay together and have coaches who have played soccer at higher levels. Whatever “limitations”are in place are ignored by Super Soccer Dad AYSO coach who has dreams of playing with the big boys. AYSO markets and targets the novice players Heavily in order to make up the numbers they know they will lose - worse now given the issue of how bad our national team is doing and not exciting kids to want to ask to play soccer. This affects soccer at all levels as number dwindle, no development going on - just have to look at CSL and SCDSL play level to see how watered down play is at the moment. Orgs at lower have to implement real change in atmosphere, in development and educate parents about the nonsense - because what is going on isn’t helping anyone. At some point going to really not going to be anyone to poach except at higher levels
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AYSO United teams have actually become very competitive at the younger ages. In the 08 boys League Cup there were 4 United teams that made the round of 32. At the younger ages, it's all about whose taller and faster and because they have a very large pool of kids to pick from, it's very easy to form a team of big kids, who are athletic and near the age line. On my son's United team, with the exception of 2 very exceptionally athletic kids and my GK son, pretty much all of them were January/February birthdays. Parents joked about it being the birthday season.

I'm not sure how much development is taking place either at the earlier ages at the higher levels. From the Luis Andres video of the '10 girls, I see lots of super athletic, really aggressive (man those body checks were right in line with what the 08 boys are doing), really fast girls. Some of them, with the exception of the keepers (who it takes longer to develop anyways), are showing great growth in individual skills (ball handling, dribbling, first touch, defense, shooting), but there's not much there by way of soccer IQ (lot's of ball chasing, not much by way of positioning, defenders dribbling the ball out the back). Not a criticism...just think that's what might be developmentally appropriate at that age....it's why I think some of the recommendations to have club ball start at U12 seem to have merit particularly now that there are tiered options from things like AYSO (though I know that will never happen because of $).
 
Kyrios Lesous said:
Hi! Some friends and I have a crew of boys (2009-2011) that play in various futsal and/or pick-up settings. We're mulling the idea of reaching out to local AYSO and club teams (Strikers, Pats, Surf, etc.) to see if they'd be open to the occasional scrimmage. Does anyone know if there are any rules/legal issues that would prohibit us from doing so? Any insight would be much appreciate!

KL
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Go on Facebook soccer board many clubs always looking to set up scrimmages in non league days. I have b11 recreation/competitive squad. We scrimmage vs a lot good clubs. Ayso hard they tend not want to scrimmage non club team. But yeah be careful who because most coaches will see a player they like and approach the parent after the game.
 
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