Blues COVID email

Sorry, that’s some real conspiratorial BS kook talk. So, what you’re saying is if Fauci is caught taking the mask off at a game—gotcha!—it negates the scientific consensus?! Maybe there’s a connection now for why we saw Asian citizens routinely wearing masks in recent years and why their populations have been comparatively unscathed by the virus.

Unscathed? The Phillipines has had one of the longest mask mandates yet was unable to contain its outbreaks. Japan was unable to avoid its spike. South Korea has had to use other measures because masks weren't enough. And Peru had a mask mandate yet had almost identical (slightly worse) results than Brazil. Now, you can argue that masks (particularly the N95s) might reduce those spikes...but there's no proof of that either way on a macro level. Here's my ultimate take on them, resulting from the behavior of the "experts" on the things. Masks may help if they are used in the ideal. But most cases of trasmission are in the home (where no one is going to use a mask properly all the time including in their sleep) or in institutional settings. The experts can't wear them all the time ideally, less so the public, which is why we don't have a huge impact. On top of that there's the recent airplane study showing that despite distancing and despite mask wearing transmission is occuring on airplanes, in business class. Could you argue yes that's because people sleep or eat?....of course but that's what happens in the home too. Could you argue they reduce the spread? Yup, think you ae probably right and they probably also reduce the viral loads. But they aren't the magic bullet people make it out to be.

What happened in Ventura County is illustrative. The health officer opposed a mask order. He said the science didn't support it, particularly the bandanas, scarfs and homemade masks which have now been shown to be of much less utility. He came under pressure from the supervisors to do "something" particularly as other counties adopted mask orders. He shifted to a recommended instructions. But then he caved when the governor's state wide order occurred. Science!

As I've said if I were in charge I'd do a limited mask order for indoors and on public transport, I'd roll out a mask program and say bandanas and others like it are not enough, and I'd exempt children 10 and under and the severely disabled.
 
wow, so Fauci intentionally lied to the public putting people at risk of dying of COVID? When all he had to do was tell people to wear a scarf around their face like he did months later? seems like a pretty crappy expert that our leaders are expecting sound advice from.

At the time there was no science around the efficacy of "scarfs" and coronavirus. Plus, can you see how that would play out? Oh, you don't need N95 masks, scarfs should just work out fine. You think that wouldn't still trigger panic/hoarding?

Hoarding was already happening regardless:


Fauci's primary concern was HCWs.
 
To be fair, Fauci said this because he didn't want hoarding of PPEs/n95 masks for HCWs. I think his approach of reducing panic was apropos.

The science is pretty conclusive. There is absolute efficacy with n95 masks. Perhaps less impactful with other materials, but still worth wearing. Do they create complete barriers? No, but they slow the virus down. Do they have any meaningful impact outdoors?, probably not.

It's unfortunate that federal leadership has made wearing a mask political.

I noticed a lot of the background crowd behind t last night were wearing masks with MAGA printed on them.
 
At the time there was no science around the efficacy of "scarfs" and coronavirus. Plus, can you see how that would play out? Oh, you don't need N95 masks, scarfs should just work out fine. You think that wouldn't still trigger panic/hoarding?

Hoarding was already happening regardless:


Fauci's primary concern was HCWs.
you just said the reason Fauci told the public that they didnt need masks was because he didnt want people hoarding PPE/mask for HCWs. That means he intentionally deceived americans to protect HCWs. Covering your mouth when you have a cough or someone else is coughing around you is common sense. so to say there was no science around the efficacy of any sort of face covering is stupid. I say that as a person that thinks this whole situation is blown way out of proportion.

The bottom line is despite what trump says in public, He has always sided with his experts in terms of actions, i.e. restricting flights from countries hit hard by the virus, starting a coronavirus taskforce in january while mainstream media/pelosi/deblasio were saying it was safe, etc. its up to local governments to set any mitigations to protect their state. Its ridiculous if you think South Dakota needs the same restrictions that California has, so setting something at the federal level would be wrong.
 
What is your number of acceptable deaths with Covid? The emotional false choice when you can only see thing through the eyes of Covid.

In California, a study showed that 55% of the excess deaths during a two month period of the pandemic are from other causes other than Covid. In Texas 64% of excess deaths are non-Covid. Nationwide the estimate is 65% Covid 35% non-Covid although 14 states had a higher percentage of non-Covid deaths. Mental health, lack of treatment, starvation and even still births are just a few of the negative impacts. The deaths from these causes due to the lockdowns are not only happening now, but will continue in the long term, far outlasting the virus. So it wouldn't be surprising to see non-Covid deaths from the lockdown surpass deaths with Covid.

Should we ignore Covid and rip the band-aid off? No, we should still protect the vulnerable without exposing the entire population to the non-Covid risks which are far greater than the Covid risks. We've flattened the Covid curve, know its time to flatten the non-Covid curve.






Please bring on the critique of these links, because other than the emotional argument, that's all you got.
 
The bottom line is despite what trump says in public, He has always sided with his experts in terms of actions, i.e. restricting flights from countries hit hard by the virus, starting a coronavirus taskforce in january while mainstream media/pelosi/deblasio were saying it was safe, etc. its up to local governments to set any mitigations to protect their state. Its ridiculous if you think South Dakota needs the same restrictions that California has, so setting something at the federal level would be wrong.

So, I'm an American before I'm part of any political party. I get the vibe here that you care more about protecting the actions of a specific political party versus understanding if masks work or not. I don't care what political party you're from, but to give federal leadership a pass on its mistakes is about as un-American as it gets. There's absolutely a distinction between how our President presented the situation versus Fauci. This is simply undeniable. I say the same thing about actions taken by some Democratic leaders. There have been some significant missteps from the entire political ideological spectrum. Our politicians are accountable to us, all of them. The sooner we all realize this and get out of this partisan BS, the sooner we can have real positive impact on everyone's lives. Or, I guess, we could all go back and watch some Wally George re-runs.
 
So, I'm an American before I'm part of any political party. I get the vibe here that you care more about protecting the actions of a specific political party versus understanding if masks work or not. I don't care what political party you're from, but to give federal leadership a pass on its mistakes is about as un-American as it gets. There's absolutely a distinction between how our President presented the situation versus Fauci. This is simply undeniable. I say the same thing about actions taken by some Democratic leaders. There have been some significant missteps from the entire political ideological spectrum. Our politicians are accountable to us, all of them. The sooner we all realize this and get out of this partisan BS, the sooner we can have real positive impact on everyone's lives. Or, I guess, we could all go back and watch some Wally George re-runs.
If you were expecting scientific/medical expertise from any politician that isnt a scientist or doctor i think that says more about you then anyone else. I expect our leading epidemiologist advising our president to tell the truth, or at the very least protect americans. He did neither by tricking the public into not buying masks. Like i said before, covering your mouth with anything is better than nothing is the latest reasoning we got for wearing scarves or DIY cloth masks. He could have said that from the beginning. Anybody with common sense already knows covering your mouth helps to stop spread any germs or virus. I dont know which political party Fauci is, but his poor advice is why there is little trust in the handling of the virus. Fauci was the one that said masks dont work, then said only N95 masks work, then said scarves were good enough. Any President in any party getting advice from that "expert" would look like a fool.
 
Four people carpooling, no masks, all become infected from one other person, one person dies.

Four people having a discussion about the setup of the mfg of a part, inside, all have masks on, one person gets it. No one dies.

Outside party, 40-50 people spread out, mostly masked, but once alcohol flows some stop wearing. No one gets it.

Four weeks of practice with 14 girls, no mask once they start practicing, decent distancing. No cases.


These are all my personal experiences. No mask and inside is a disaster. Mask inside but in close proximity, helps but not perfect. Outside with mask great, without mask but some distance, great.

Try not to play the blame game. People are fallible, they make mistakes. Learn from them. Look at actions more than words. Understand science isn't exact. Oh, and all politicians suck.
 
So, I'm an American before I'm part of any political party. I get the vibe here that you care more about protecting the actions of a specific political party versus understanding if masks work or not. I don't care what political party you're from, but to give federal leadership a pass on its mistakes is about as un-American as it gets. There's absolutely a distinction between how our President presented the situation versus Fauci. This is simply undeniable. I say the same thing about actions taken by some Democratic leaders. There have been some significant missteps from the entire political ideological spectrum. Our politicians are accountable to us, all of them. The sooner we all realize this and get out of this partisan BS, the sooner we can have real positive impact on everyone's lives. Or, I guess, we could all go back and watch some Wally George re-runs.
Wally Wally Wally!!! Channel 56 in OC baby. I watched that guy late at night and he was a funny and weird dude and his studio audience was full of young crazy ass teenagers from the OC!!! Talk about Hot Seat with Wally!!!
 
Where is that split in science? Everything I've read seems to be pretty conclusive about it:

That study is not conclusive by the way.

As they point out:

"The testing here did not account for real-world scenarios where the leakage around the edges of the face cover may significantly impact the actual effectiveness of these coverings."

They assume perfectly fitted masks with no leakages.

"We reiterate that these filtration efficiencies are only applicable if there is no leakage in the seals of the masks, as loose-fitting devices such as these coverings and medical masks do not have any gasket or tight-fitting mechanism to ensure a proper seal."

In other words the study has no bearing on the masks everyone is wearing. They point out most people (professionals) cant even get their masks on right.

Further

"The general public should be aware of the risks of self-contamination during removal and reuse of cloth face coverings."

So no the study has no bearing on masks we are using and how the general public uses them.
 
EJ, did you change your screen name again? You gotta send a memo...
Where have you been? Go to Cactus Kickoff for update on new avatar. I learned I was doing third person too much and that pissed some dads off so I'm just going to go with Crush the dad from Orange County, who is on his last year and half before his kid goes to college. Footy gave me the idea and my wife said, "100%." Not trying to deceive anyone or trick anyone like some do on here.
 
And after he promised not to and said Dom should delete his other accounts. :p
I never talk to myself and tell myself how great my take was either. I told Dom to delete all other avatar names. No more third person Grace. It's the real me I promise and I see where I made myself look odd at the minimum. I will do better with my promises and look to stay in my lane, which is soccer. I have a crush on soccer and I don't know why. Stay safe and I truly do pray for your boys and you :)
 
Please bring on the critique of these links, because other than the emotional argument, that's all you got.

From your very first link:

"Between March 1, 2020, and April 25, 2020, a total of 505 059 deaths were reported in the US; 87 001 (95% CI, 86 578-87 423) were excess deaths, of which 56 246 (65%) were attributed to COVID-19. In 14 states, more than 50% of excess deaths were attributed to underlying causes other than COVID-19; these included California (55% of excess deaths) and Texas (64% of excess deaths) (Table). The 5 states with the most COVID-19 deaths experienced large proportional increases in deaths due to nonrespiratory underlying causes, including diabetes (96%), heart diseases (89%), Alzheimer disease (64%), and cerebrovascular diseases (35%) (Figure). New York City experienced the largest increases in nonrespiratory deaths, notably those due to heart disease (398%) and diabetes (356%)."

Let's say, hypothetically, that we "open everything up". Now you're dealing with an excess of Covid related deaths, but now you still aren't going to shrink those heart disease and diabetes numbers as much as you want because the public perception is that it isn't safe to go to the hospital and opening things up doesn't necessarily change that. People who need to get checked out for blood pressure etc aren't going to their doctors right now and likely won't until we get the virus under control.

That's the key-- if you get the virus under control, with no community spread, then fantastic, I will be first in line to go see Tenet in a theater, I will be first in line to reschedule my dentist appointment, I will be first in line to do all of those things that we've missed over the past six months. But we know that the virus is still out there, we know it's still a risk-- even if the risk to me is small-- and we know there's still no guaranteed therepeutics or vaccine coming soon. That alone should be enough to slow down the "open it up!!!!1!!!" crew.
 
From your very first link:



Let's say, hypothetically, that we "open everything up". Now you're dealing with an excess of Covid related deaths, but now you still aren't going to shrink those heart disease and diabetes numbers as much as you want because the public perception is that it isn't safe to go to the hospital and opening things up doesn't necessarily change that. People who need to get checked out for blood pressure etc aren't going to their doctors right now and likely won't until we get the virus under control.

That's the key-- if you get the virus under control, with no community spread, then fantastic, I will be first in line to go see Tenet in a theater, I will be first in line to reschedule my dentist appointment, I will be first in line to do all of those things that we've missed over the past six months. But we know that the virus is still out there, we know it's still a risk-- even if the risk to me is small-- and we know there's still no guaranteed therepeutics or vaccine coming soon. That alone should be enough to slow down the "open it up!!!!1!!!" crew.

You won't go to the dentist for a year, possibly a year and a half (unless presumably you have to by cracking a tooth or a cavity or some other unfortunate event)? And presumably once people start to get vaccinated, the dentists will be full then for a while with old people coming out from their residences? I've been in and out of the hospital for tests the last several weeks....I'll admit its somewhat nerve wracking...but to not go to the dentist for over a year because you are afraid of the thing seems a bit much. Granted, don't know you....you might be in a high risk category so would make sense....my folks aren't going to the dentist either.
 
From your very first link:



Let's say, hypothetically, that we "open everything up". Now you're dealing with an excess of Covid related deaths, but now you still aren't going to shrink those heart disease and diabetes numbers as much as you want because the public perception is that it isn't safe to go to the hospital and opening things up doesn't necessarily change that. People who need to get checked out for blood pressure etc aren't going to their doctors right now and likely won't until we get the virus under control.

That's the key-- if you get the virus under control, with no community spread, then fantastic, I will be first in line to go see Tenet in a theater, I will be first in line to reschedule my dentist appointment, I will be first in line to do all of those things that we've missed over the past six months. But we know that the virus is still out there, we know it's still a risk-- even if the risk to me is small-- and we know there's still no guaranteed therepeutics or vaccine coming soon. That alone should be enough to slow down the "open it up!!!!1!!!" crew.
Again emotional appeal, with no factual basis. And again please don't mischaracterize what I'm saying. I'm not proposing an all or nothing approach to Covid, I'm proposing a targeted approach. Plus its not public perception that its not safe to go to hospitals. That's your fear that your are trying to project on to everyone else. Plus you can't fix stupid, if you're avoiding medical treatment because you're afraid of Covid, then you're stupid.
 
Zero if possible. But it isn't. But you would also have to consider how many deaths occur because the economy isn't open. What would be a good number for you?




These three links confer a link between "opening the economy" (eg having a job) and being able to eat. We have the means to get the money to people for food in such a way that doesn't require a bartender with asthma to put her life on the line. Let's try that first.
 
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